Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[bbyrd009]

29and come out--those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of judgment.

 

[GodsGrace]

You lack understanding
You are prejudiced beyond reason
You take verses out of context
and when this is shown to you, you ignore it and go back into the muddle you create for yourself
You cannot be reasoned with
You are lost within your own reasoning

1. Which verse have I taken out of context?
2. How could I be lost within my own reason if the O.P. states that 50% of all Christians agree with me. (and that's just because of someone's inventing this concept in the 1500's - it did not exist before then).

 

[Helen]

If God's message to us was all about staying out of Hell...in the big book He has written and left to us as a pattern on how to do that...one would think that right away...in GENESIS He would do so!!!
When God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, He never mentioned the concept of eternal torment to them. Read for yourself.....it’s just not there. Don’t you think it strange that as human history began on this planet, while God explained which tree they could not eat of, that He didn’t give the parents of all mankind some kind of warning about eternal punishment.
When God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden, He never mentioned the concept of eternal torment to them. Read for yourself...did He somehow forget this very important point?? ..it’s just not there. Don’t you think it strange that as human history began, and, while God explained which tree they could not eat of, that he didn’t give the parents of all mankind some kind of warning about eternal punishment, IF there was potential for it to be in their future, and ours??
3/4 of the bible does NOT mention hell fire and torment...
We don't read about any hell until Jesus words about the lusts of our flesh. Matt 18: "Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

People go on and on about how we must obey God, and obey the bible...but they do NOT!!
How many one handed and one eyed Christians do YOU know or have see in church? ...not one christian "obeys the bible" to the letter!! That makes us all liars ...and no liar will enter heaven.

Christians talk out of both sides of their mouth...one side they put the heavy weight of the letter of the law- " we must obey God everything He says in the bible He means"...yet out of the other of their mouth they whisper.."but I don't have to really cut of my hand and pull out my eyes."
What a double confused standard!!

In the Old Testament, the word for which hell is given in the King James Version is sheol, a word whose root meaning is “unseen.” The King James Version translates sheol as “hell” 31 times, “the grave” 31 times (since someone in the grave is unseen), and “the pit” three times.

Yet in the Old Testament sheol was not exclusively a place of punishment, for faithful Jacob was there (Gen. 37:35, 42:38, 44:29, 31). Righteous Job also longed for it in Job 14:13. David spoke of going to sheol in Ps. 49:15 and Jesus went there, Ps. 16:10 and Acts 2:24-31. In all these cases, these men were “unseen” because they were dead.
The New Testament equivalent of sheol is hades, which occurs only eleven times. Like its synonym sheol, the K J V translates the word “hell.” The correct translation is hades, or the unseen.
The Bible doesn’t use hades exclusively for a place of punishment. Luke 16 pictures righteous Lazarus there. Acts 2:27, 31 says Jesus went there. In 1 Cor. 15:55, Paul used the same word when he said, “O grave, where is thy victory?” In Rev. 1:18, Jesus said he had the controlling keys of death and hades, the unseen, and in Rev. 6:8, death and hades followed the pale horse. Finally, in Rev. 20:13, 14, death and hades gave up the dead that were in them, and were then cast into the lake of fire. These verses illustrate that hades refers to anything that is unseen.
Tartarus Is Also Translated Hell In the KJV
In 2 Pet. 2:4, we read:
For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness who were being punished when
2 Peter was written, showing that God knew how to treat disobedience among angels. It says nothing about fire, torment, pain, punishment of anyone else, or that it will last forever.

Does anyone wonder how I really feel about this?

 

[amadeus]

certainly it will, imo, yes. Crowd Wisdom is a powerful thing, i would even liken it to an abundance of witnesses

Ah yes, but will it make a difference to God?

 

[amadeus]

You lack understanding
You are prejudiced beyond reason
You take verses out of context
and when this is shown to you, you ignore it and go back into the muddle you create for yourself
You cannot be reasoned with
You are lost within your own reasoning

There is an easy answer, and the pathway to take is easy IF we do not walk it alone!

 

[amadeus]

@"ByGrace"

Your post #23 was all about eternal torment. Do all who do not believe in OSAS also stand for eternal torment? I do stand firmly against OSAS and yet I also do not believe in eternal torment.

Whatever pathway He has provided has He not also made it possible to walk in it? The guarantee I see from God is the one available to those who given other alternatives all along the way, still continuously choose to follow Him

Give God the glory!

 

[Helen]

,

@"ByGrace"

Your post #23 was all about eternal torment. Do all who do not believe in OSAS also stand for eternal torment? I do stand firmly against OSAS and yet I also do not believe in eternal torment.

Whatever pathway He has provided has He not also made it possible to walk in it? The guarantee I see from God is the one available to those who given other alternatives all along the way, still continuously choose to follow Him

Give God the glory!

Hey John.
I must admit...I not not yet found any that do not believe in OSAS that don't believe in hell fire. If they are on this Site I'd like to see their posts!! Really.

You are one of the few who believes in Annihilation...if I didn't believe in the restitution of all things...I would believe in annihilation.
But, I will believe in the refinement of The Fire...until God shows me something different.
But, praise God John...we love Him, therefore we trust Him , and in trusting Him, we know that whatever His Plan is...it will be good!
We have confidence that at the end, God win's...that was always His Plan from the beginning....He didn't place mankind in the Garden with a plan to have it turn out a mess.

So, we leave it in His Hand with confidence and trust...and we continue to walk ....,the walk of Faith in His heart and in His nature.
What peace that brings....whatever the outcome...it will be glorious!

 

[amadeus]

,

Hey John.
I must admit...I not not yet found any that do not believe in OSAS that don't believe in hell fire. If they are on this Site I'd like to see their posts!! Really.

You are one of the few who believes in Annihilation...if I didn't believe in the restitution of all things...I would believe in annihilation.
But, I will believe in the refinement of The Fire...until God shows me something different.

So I am one of the lonesome few then. Well that is OK as the most important really is charity/love anyway. [By the way, most of the people I have fellowship with outside of the Internet believe as I do on both of these points.]

But, praise God John...we love Him, therefore we trust Him , and in trusting Him, we know that whatever His Plan is...it will be good!
We have confidence that at the end, God win's...that was always His Plan from the beginning....He didn't place mankind in the Garden with a plan to have it turn out a mess.

So, we leave it in His Hand with confidence and trust...and we continue to walk ....,the walk of Faith in His heart and in His nature.
What peace that brings....whatever the outcome...it will be glorious!

For those who love Him, really love Him, the plan is definitely good for them.

 

[bbyrd009]

So I am one of the lonesome few then.

lol, i guess

 

[pia]

So I am one of the lonesome few then

No, I recall when I first heard of that term, as in total destruction, which I had thought along the way, would be a more loving thing to do it, than an eternity in hell fire...but I hope that He is able to somehow restore ALL things unto Himself, through Christ...that would be the ultimate victory, after all !

 

[mjrhealth]

Well I for one am not qualified to speak on hell, never seeing it and never being taught on it, only what i read and hearsay. All Jesus has ever taught me is about Gods love for mankind, and I do know that God wasnt going to start something He couldnt finish. Like Pia said, teh ultimate victory is to redeem "all" men back to Himself, But who knows, He hasnt told any man His final plan, He just isnt that foolish.

 

[tabletalk]

Agree Grams...Yes, once saved = saved.
But what should keep us motivated is the place/seating in the Kingdom.
As we keep on keeping on ..seeing Him who is invisible..never looking to the left or right but at God our Goal...we will in due time reach or Destination.
He is our Destiny.

But, don't you also think every person will be saved?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ditto

So who are you trying to convince?
The many so called Christians in the world that think they are saved and are not?
You're wasting your time on this forum doing that.
If you want to reach those people, just go to your local church.

 

[GodsGrace]

So I am one of the lonesome few then. Well that is OK as the most important really is charity/love anyway. [By the way, most of the people I have fellowship with outside of the Internet believe as I do on both of these points.]


For those who love Him, really love Him, the plan is definitely good for them.

You'll be happy to know that Don Alberto agrees with you.
He apologized, about a year ago, at a MASS, that the church has mislead persons and that there is no such place as hell. Needless to say, many were very happy to hear this and the attendance at his bible study has increased markedly.

I believe there is a hell. I don't know how it'll be. I doubt it'll be fire. This idea came about because of Gehenna and what it was used for. Burning gargabe, in the Kidron Valley.

There must, however, be a place where God is NOT. That is hell.
Just imagine in God were not using His powers here on this earth. It would be truly hell. So, I feel it's like that -- but we can't know for sure.

Jesus did say it's an unpleasant place.
Luke 16:19-31.

 

[bbyrd009]

there is no state worse imo, yes, than to be universally forgiven of something by everyone that matters, of something that only you can justify

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You'll be happy to know that Don Alberto agrees with you.
He apologized, about a year ago, at a MASS, that the church has mislead persons and that there is no such place as hell. Needless to say, many were very happy to hear this and the attendance at his bible study has increased markedly.

I believe there is a hell. I don't know how it'll be. I doubt it'll be fire. This idea came about because of Gehenna and what it was used for. Burning gargabe, in the Kidron Valley.

There must, however, be a place where God is NOT. That is hell.
Just imagine in God were not using His powers here on this earth. It would be truly hell. So, I feel it's like that -- but we can't know for sure.

Jesus did say it's an unpleasant place.
Luke 16:19-31.

If you make your bed in heaven, he's there
if you make your bed in hell, he's there
He's everywhere! Psalm 139:8;

 

[amadeus]

You'll be happy to know that Don Alberto agrees with you.
He apologized, about a year ago, at a MASS, that the church has mislead persons and that there is no such place as hell. Needless to say, many were very happy to hear this and the attendance at his bible study has increased markedly.

Well I don't know Don Alberto, but I am glad someone else agrees with me. If we both always agree with God then all is to the good.

I believe there is a hell. I don't know how it'll be. I doubt it'll be fire. This idea came about because of Gehenna and what it was used for. Burning gargabe, in the Kidron Valley.

There must, however, be a place where God is NOT. That is hell.

I like your idea of hell.

Just imagine in God were not using His powers here on this earth. It would be truly hell. So, I feel it's like that -- but we can't know for sure.

Jesus did say it's an unpleasant place.
Luke 16:19-31.

One idea that comes to me, [perhaps through person but I don't recall for sure,] is that when Jesus was sent to us from the Father, he was sent down to hell. He spent his time in hell when he dwelt among us in the flesh of a man subject to the temptations and sufferings of a man. All of us here are effectively IN hell even though we may not be OF hell because we met and have followed Jesus. Jesus came down to hell and conquered it [overcame it]. He then left hell. We can do the same.

 

[bbyrd009]

One idea that comes to me, [perhaps through person but I don't recall for sure,] is that when Jesus was sent to us from the Father, he was sent down to hell.

through a person, imo, yes. even if the conclusion is valid enough, from a certain pov

 

[Helen]

But, don't you also think every person will be saved?

Yes I do. :)
I believe that is the ultimate victory over the devil.

Again we have two different things that we are talking about.
GRAMS said :-

You are either saved !!! Or Not!
Once saved is for ever............ but what you do on this earth gives you your position in the heavens.........

I agreed with her post.

So.. when the new Movie starts...some will have seats at the front and some will be far at the back...maybe hearing alright but not be able to see the Face on the screen so well.
God is God, only He knows.

....H

 

[pia]

there is no state worse imo, yes, than to be universally forgiven of something by everyone that matters, of something that only you can justify

I guess that's why we had to be justified by our faith in the only One who was able....How can we possibly justify everything we have ever done ? I have also seen those who think they are justified in something and yet couldn't be more wrong...I truly prefer His justification :)