The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

[skypair]

the Holy Spirit is him, God, without flesh and bone, and the Son, with flesh and bone.

I have diagramed them with a van diagram -- three circles overlapping in one central triangle which is the Holy Spirit (much like you would have 2 circles overlapping). But there are 3 persons, as I explained above .. 3 actual embodiments of the Holy Spirit .. 3 bodies that have been witnessed to us by men in the Bible. They are Father, Holy Ghost, and Son. In fact, the Holy Ghost (post-resurrection Christ) and the Son have distinct but nearly identical bodies. The Son's is "flesh and blood" and the Holy Ghost's is "flesh and Spirit."

So I think, rather than destroying what scripture says, we ought to go with scripture. Now one thing that has been missing in a lot of those lies is that the Holy Ghost has been written out of scripture since the KJV (for 500 years now). Every entry of Holy Ghost in the new versions has been changed to Holy Spirit. That, indeed, is where the lie comes from. You are absolutely right that the Spirit is the one commonality of all 3 persons.

skypair

skypair

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, the diagram of God, lol.

anything else?

not if you don't wanna address the point, no

 

[101G]

I have diagramed them with a van diagram -- three circles overlapping in one central triangle which is the Holy Spirit (much like you would have 2 circles overlapping). But there are 3 persons, as I explained above .. 3 actual embodiments of the Holy Spirit .. 3 bodies that have been witnessed to us by men in the Bible. They are Father, Holy Ghost, and Son. In fact, the Holy Ghost (post-resurrection Christ) and the Son have distinct but nearly identical bodies. The Son's is "flesh and blood" and the Holy Ghost's is "flesh and Spirit."

So I think, rather than destroying what scripture says, we ought to go with scripture. Now one thing that has been missing in a lot of those lies is that the Holy Ghost has been written out of scripture since the KJV (for 500 years now). Every entry of Holy Ghost in the new versions has been changed to Holy Spirit. That, indeed, is where the lie comes from. You are absolutely right that the Spirit is the one commonality of all 3 persons.

skypair

skypair

first thanks for the reply. I see where you're coming from, but consider this. the Spirit "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh. you stated, "But there are 3 persons, as I explained above". ok, answer me this. who is the Father of the Child Christ Jesus? now before you answer, listen, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". now I ask you, is not the conceiver the "FATHER?" yes. if the Holy Spirit is the one who conceived the child, naturally he is the Father is this not correct?.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[101G]

ah, the diagram of God, lol.

not if you don't wanna address the point, no

ok, what's the point, because there are many.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, what's the point, because there are many.

you already got them, on the other thread, and you are just having a semantics discussion on the definition of immortal now really, as you already know that "God will die" is not what is being meant imo

what does "immortal" mean, if you like, but that quote links to your previous post, and you might rephrame the Q i guess. We're still talking about Jesus 2000 years later, what if that is all "immortal" means? Christ is more alive in spirit now, perhaps, than then, even, on the same basis.

i don't mean "accept this as truth," see, but rather "contemplate it as a perception."

 

[101G]

what does "immortal" mean, if you like, but that quote links to your previous post, and you might rephrame the Q i guess. We're still talking about Jesus 2000 years later, what if that is all "immortal" means? Christ is more alive in spirit now, perhaps, than then, even, on the same basis.

i don't mean "accept this as truth," see, but rather "contemplate it as a perception."

No perception, fact, synonyms with "EVERLASTING" yes the Lord Jesus in the OT as the "EVERLASTING" one.

PCY

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, that is this and this is that, ok

all other perspectives are irrelevant then i guess

 

[101G]

ah, that is this and this is that, ok

all other perspectives are irrelevant then i guess

no, not so, we need to stick to the facts. example in Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".
this same Child that is born is called "EVERLASTING FATHER". I ask you how is the Child the "Son" is Called the "EVERLASTING FATHER" when there is suppose to be a "Father" already, well?

PCY

 

[bbyrd009]

all other perspectives are irrelevant then i guess

no, not so, we need to stick to the facts

lol

 

[skypair]

for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". now I ask you, is not the conceiver the "FATHER?" yes. if the Holy Spirit is the one who conceived the child, naturally he is the Father is this not correct?.

The Holy Ghost is not the Holy Spirit as your paradigm assumes. So Jesus is the "Son of God," right? Well, the Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God -- so the Holy Ghost overshadows Mary and the Spirit of God conceives Jesus.

Remember, the angel told Mary that she would be the mother of Messiah? The Word of God + faith yields that which the "Word" has spoken or "breathed" into existence. It happens the same with us under the preaching of the Word, of the Holy Ghost. If we believe and submit ourselves to God as Mary did, Christ will be born in us, too.

skypair

 

[101G]

The Holy Ghost is not the Holy Spirit

please give scriptures stating the difference.

PCY

 

[skypair]

please give scriptures stating the difference.

You should be able to see the difference in these verses in the KJV: Jn 7:39, 1Cor 12:3, 1Cor 2:7 vs 10 (Spirit reveals, Ghost teaches mysteries, hidden/deep things of God), Acts 2:17 vs 2:4, 2:38.

Let me know if you can see the difference or not. :)

skypair

 

[101G]

You should be able to see the difference in these verses in the KJV: Jn 7:39, 1Cor 12:3, 1Cor 2:7 vs 10 (Spirit reveals, Ghost teaches mysteries, hidden/deep things of God), Acts 2:17 vs 2:4, 2:38.

Let me know if you can see the difference or not. :)

skypair

Sorry no difference. I read your scriptures, but none states any difference. U said the Holy Ghost teaches and the Spirit reveals, right, let's see. Reveal by the holy Ghost. Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ"...hmmm seems like the Holy Ghost reveals also. so that's eliminated. now the Spirit of God teach, John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come". see that word GUIDE.
GUIDE: G3594 ὁδηγέω hodegeo (ho-d̮ee-ǰe'-ō) v.
1. to show the way.
2. (figuratively) teach.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G3595]
KJV: guide, lead

but you have a bigger problem, because the Spirit of Truth come from the Father. scripture,
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".

the Spirit of Truth the "COMFORTER" is of the Father, the Spirit of God. which you said, "the Father" is not the the "Holy Ghost". well ERROR. listen, John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you".

Now, I must WARN you. because you have TWO different Spirit. listen, 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"
1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”

if you say that they are different then you have two Spirit in you then. but here's the warning, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling".

understand skypair, the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit. and i can give many more scriptures stating the same.

PS now a REVEALING and a TEACHING, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is JESUS.

PCY

 

[skypair]

"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ"...hmmm seems like the Holy Ghost reveals also.

That's good 101G. :) Obviously that teacher does reveal but the revealer doesn't teach, right?

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".

the Spirit of Truth the "COMFORTER" is of the Father, the Spirit of God. which you said, "the Father" is not the the "Holy Ghost".

Not sure I see the problem here. I believe that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and Holy Ghost and Son whereas the Holy Ghost proceeds only from the Father. So Holy Ghost = Spirit of truth = Comforter, right?

Do you understand that we have both the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost dwelling in us? IOW, we can't understand something we are not aware of, can we? The problem for you, as I see it, is to prove that the Holy Spirit teaches you the mysteries, parables, and hidden/deep things of God.

skypair

 

[101G]

That's good 101G. :) Obviously that teacher does reveal but the revealer doesn't teach, right?

Not sure I see the problem here. I believe that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and Holy Ghost and Son whereas the Holy Ghost proceeds only from the Father. So Holy Ghost = Spirit of truth = Comforter, right?

Do you understand that we have both the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost dwelling in us? IOW, we can't understand something we are not aware of, can we? The problem for you, as I see it, is to prove that the Holy Spirit teaches you the mysteries, parables, and hidden/deep things of God.

skypair

First thanks for the response. second let's take apart your response bit by bit.
#1. your first differences was in ERROR and went down the tube when the Holy Ghost reveals. now, that should have been a warning for you right there, that you assessment was in jeopardy.

#2. you must or didn't want to read where the Holy Spirit TEACH. because the Holy Spirit proceedeth, or Emanate from the Spirit whom you calls "Father". for the Father, the LORD all caps will teach us. from Deuteronomy 4:1, Psalms 143:10, Isaiah 48:16 & 17, (Isaiah 28:9 John 16:13) 1 Corinthians 12:8 here is the Pastoral Gift from the Spirit of God to TEACH, didn't see that did you?.

#3. but your biggest problem is what I posted in the topic "Understanding the nature of Christ". see post #30

Lastly, U said, "Do you understand that we have both the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost dwelling in us?" I can't believe you said that. oh well, as you said that they are different, then one have TWO Spirit in us and that's anti bible.

so your assessment of the Holy Ghost only Teaches, and the Spirit of God only reveals, have proven incorrect. and also proven erroneous, for the Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost.

please don't take this as a put down, but as a learning curb, read that Post #30 again in "Understanding Christ nature".

PCY

 

[skypair]

I realized last night in my prayers that I was a little "cheeky" with you in saying "your problem is…" It's actually our problem in not understanding one another and, perhaps, the scriptures correctly.

But back to the subject at hand. First, every member of the Trinity is of the same one essence — the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Ghost has the Holy Spirit and if we have the Holy Ghost, we have the Holy Spirit, too. It's like Holy Ghost = Christ in us and Christ had the Holy Spirit.

So now your "teaching" passages .. well, yes, the commandments of God are NOT mysteries, parables, hidden or deep wisdom's of God. God also taught them feasts and ceremonies and taught them to build His house/tabernacle. This is where the mysteries lay that were taught in the NT by Jesus and, say, Paul in the book of Hebrews. And as I said, Jesus revealed 11 parables in Mt 13 alone .. but only taught what 4 of them meant. There are another 6 parables of the kingdom of heaven in Matthew (18, 20, 22, 25) and He doesn't teach what they mean at all. So the person with the Holy Ghost can discern the teaching but the person with the Holy Spirit (the Bible alone, sola scriptura), can't.

And I don't doubt that you can teach the Bible .. I just doubt that you can teach what it means.

skypair

 

[101G]

I realized last night in my prayers that I was a little "cheeky" with you in saying "your problem is…" It's actually our problem in not understanding one another and, perhaps, the scriptures correctly.

But back to the subject at hand. First, every member of the Trinity is of the same one essence — the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Ghost has the Holy Spirit and if we have the Holy Ghost, we have the Holy Spirit, too. It's like Holy Ghost = Christ in us and Christ had the Holy Spirit.

So now your "teaching" passages .. well, yes, the commandments of God are NOT mysteries, parables, hidden or deep wisdom's of God. God also taught them feasts and ceremonies and taught them to build His house/tabernacle. This is where the mysteries lay that were taught in the NT by Jesus and, say, Paul in the book of Hebrews. And as I said, Jesus revealed 11 parables in Mt 13 alone .. but only taught what 4 of them meant. There are another 6 parables of the kingdom of heaven in Matthew (18, 20, 22, 25) and He doesn't teach what they mean at all. So the person with the Holy Ghost can discern the teaching but the person with the Holy Spirit (the Bible alone, sola scriptura), can't.

And I don't doubt that you can teach the Bible .. I just doubt that you can teach what it means.

skypair

First I agree we have the problem. Thank you for that. Second, by having the Spirit of God we can learn the truth for he will teach us by guiding us in the truth. Glad you took the reasoning route, this is good.

There is something you said that stood out to me, listen, “So the Holy Ghost has the Holy Spirit”. let's reverse that. listen to this especially watch the word “has/hath”, Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. hath and has mean the same thing, both are a form of the present tense (indicative mood) of have, (see Collins English Dictionary). and if you will notice in all the letter to the 7 churches it is the Lord Jesus who are addressing them. notice I said are and not is addressing them. because it is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the 7 churches, but at the end of each letter, we have this, " He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". so it is the Spirit speaking. just as the Spirit in Acts 2:4 giving them the utterance, listen. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”. see it there in the this one scripture. They was filled with the Holy Ghost, but it was the “Spirit” the Holy Spirit who gave utterance.

Maybe we can reason on this.

PCY

 

[skypair]

First I agree we have the problem. Thank you for that. Second, by having the Spirit of God we can learn the truth for he will teach us by guiding us in the truth. Glad you took the reasoning route, this is good.

Yeah, I'm sorry if that set you on a confrontational footing. But what I am seeing you say here is, if we have the Bible (Spirit of God), "He will teach us." First, I don't believe that the Spirit is a Person. Second, a lot of people make that mistake (IMO) of confusing the Spirit with the Holy Ghost of Christin us.

listen to this especially watch the word “has/hath”, Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God,

This is interesting and you may not be aware of it. The 7 spirits are mentioned again in Rev 4 as 7 eyes and 7 horns. What this refers to is 7 dispensation by which CHRIST "sees" and "rules" over HIS kingdom of heaven. So what the says to the churches is what the Bible says about repentance, right? The church is actually the crowning achievement of those dispensations (of HIStory) for, whereas in the others, man failed the "test," in the church man does not fail the "test" because God is in him! I'll explain this more if you are interested.

so it is the Spirit speaking. just as the Spirit in Acts 2:4 giving them the utterance, listen. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”

So this is a good one too! :) They are all filled with Christ, but what did they preach? The Spirit of the OT, right? All that stuff that they preached was OT Scripture which the Spirit brought to their mind.

This is good stuff! You are really bringing it, 101G. I appreciate that.

 

[101G]

Yeah, I'm sorry if that set you on a confrontational footing. But what I am seeing you say here is, if we have the Bible (Spirit of God), "He will teach us." First, I don't believe that the Spirit is a Person. Second, a lot of people make that mistake (IMO) of confusing the Spirit with the Holy Ghost of Christin us.

First thanks for the reply, and no, I never saw it as confrontational. as a matter of fact it's refreshing to have a civil discussion. again thanks.
second, yes, God is a "Spirit" see John 4:24, and notice "a", "a", "a" Spirit, meaning only ONE PERSON. God is a PERSON according to the bible. you said the Spirit is not a Person. I must disagree with that assessment, just read John 4:24.
Third, the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, whom we call the "Comforter". scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous". Advocate means "Comforter". it's the Greek word G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n, please look it up. which means advocate, comforter. and the Comforter is the Holy Ghost you seek, see John 14:26.
understand this, another word for "Advocate" is MEDIATOR. and you do know that the Christ is our mediator right, scripture, Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one". and Jesus Christ is God in the flesh as a man, scripture. 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". the scripture don't lie. Jesus the Christ is the HOLY Ghost. plain and Simple. per your statement, and confirmed in his Holy wprd.

This is interesting and you may not be aware of it. The 7 spirits are mentioned again in Rev 4 as 7 eyes and 7 horns. What this refers to is 7 dispensation by which CHRIST "sees" and "rules" over HIS kingdom of heaven. So what the says to the churches is what the Bible says about repentance, right? The church is actually the crowning achievement of those dispensations (of HIStory) for, whereas in the others, man failed the "test," in the church man does not fail the "test" because God is in him! I'll explain this more if you are interested.

7 in the bible means complete as a whole. The 7 spirit are the 7 GIFTS of the Spirit as clearly mention in 1 Corinthians 12:8-11, please read them. and first foretold in Isaiah 11:2. it's not the 7 dispensation of Christ. the 7 eyes is the omnipresent of the Lord Jesus/God, who is the Holy Spirit. eyes here means all knowing, being present everywhere at the same time. also see Zechariah 4:10 also. the 7 Horns, means all POWER, hence the omnipotent of the Lord Jesus/God. horn in the bible means POWER, and the Lord Jesus have the 7 spirit, so he have it ALL, hence almighty, the mighty God, the "EVERLASTING FATHER", read Isaiah 9:6, and see who that child, that Son is. as for the dispensations of God/the Lord Jesus, it's only 3, but that's another topic.

now, the Church (of HIStory) ruling or seeing over it, and or as you said, (his Kingdom of heaven), it's because he is the Governor. scripture, Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here, "Governor", in reference to Micah 5:2, is RULER in Hebrew which is H4910 מָשַׁל mashal (maw-shal') v. translated in the KJV as "Governor". he/the Lord Jesus is the head of the Church, meaning the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Head of the Church. and pleas note, God the Holy Spirit/Jesus is that Governor according to the OT witting. listen, Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations". that's LORD all caps.

understand something skypair, when one say Spirit of Christ one is saying the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost. listen, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". see skypair, the Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the God of the OT. who is Christ, (the Man), who manifested in flesh in the NT. the Spirit, the HOLY SPIRIT is called the WORD. and from John 1:1 the WORD is Jesus the Christ. and that WORD was in the Prophets of OLD. listen, all the OT prophets said some like this. "The Word of the LORD came unto me". just read those OT prophets, and see. and 1Peter said that the Spirit the Word was IN them, meaning the OT Prophets. so they was FILLED with the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit too.

So this is a good one too! :) They are all filled with Christ, but what did they preach? The Spirit of the OT, right? All that stuff that they preached was OT Scripture which the Spirit brought to their mind.

see you just answered my respond above it was the Spirit who taught/teached them the suffering of Christ to come, because he, the Holy Spirit was "IN", "IN", "IN" them. Read 1 Peter 1:10-11 again. that should answer all our questions right there.

PS we in Christ are teaching and revealing the truth here, both of us. this is what Christianity is all about, Isaiah 1:18a "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD". this is the Harmony that must be between Christians, discussing the word of God instead of arguing the word of God. see, it started when you said in post #136, "So the Holy Ghost has the Holy Spirit", I just reversed it. glory to God.

PCY

 

[bbyrd009]

it takes at least two to establish truth; a rope of three cords is not easily broken

we perceive the two as needing to be in agreement to establish truth, but this is not necessarily so, two may disagree and a third will be able to witness to some truth by reading between the lines, so to speak, by hearing both sides and making a determination from the preponderance of evidence

ty guys :)