Limited atonement !

[Runningman]

In my 40 years of Christian ministry, never once in my life has someone told me they lost their Salvation. However, every born again from above believer lived every day for Christ and all who passed from this world, praised God before they slept.

If one believes that cannot lost their salvation they may not even be aware they have. So I can understand why someone wouldn't mention it. Even if they did, they might not want to be public about it. It's a deeply personal matter. On that note, yes I have lost my salvation before but God is quite merciful to the repentant and those who love His son.

 

[Rockerduck]

If one believes that cannot lost their salvation they may not even be aware they have. So I can understand why someone wouldn't mention it. Even if they did, they might not want to be public about it. It's a deeply personal matter. On that note, yes I have lost my salvation before but God is quite merciful to the repentant and those who love His son.

You didn't save yourself and you had nothing to do with your salvation, and you can't crawl back out of Jesus hand. He owns you. 1 Cor. 6:19. Once you become a Child of God, you can backslide, and repent, but Jesus didn't let you go, by your own admission. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation, and it is gift that you didn't deserve, and you would not have asked for. Basically, you are calling God a liar if He is unable to keep you saved.

 

[Runningman]

You didn't save yourself and you had nothing to do with your salvation, and you can't crawl back out of Jesus hand. He owns you. 1 Cor. 6:19. Once you become a Child of God, you can backslide, and repent, but Jesus didn't let you go, by your own admission. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation, and it is gift that you didn't deserve, and you would not have asked for. Basically, you are calling God a liar if He is unable to keep you saved.

Do you believe all of the verses in the Bible about people falling from grace, losing their sin sacrifice, or losing their salvation? A yes or no is fine. They exist. I won't debate that specific point with you in his limited atonement thread.

 

[Rockerduck]

Do you believe all of the verses in the Bible about people falling from grace, losing their sin sacrifice, or losing their salvation? A yes or no is fine. They exist. I won't debate that specific point with you in his limited atonement thread.

Name one verse that Jesus said you will lose your salvation.

 

[Runningman]

Name one verse that Jesus said you will lose your salvation.

It's all over the gospels.

In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus taught that those who do not do the Father's will, regardless of their performance of miracles, something only a true believer can do (Mark 16:17) that they will be rejected. Genuine obedience is required for salvation. This does not necessitate sinless perfection because genuine obedience involves sin confession and repentance as Jesus also taught.

Jesus also taught that those who endure to the end will be saved in Matthew 10:22.

Jesus taught in Matthew 25:1-13, in the parable of the10 virgins that even those with faith, but lack readiness can be shut out.

Matthew 10:33 Jesus said he will deny those before God who have denied him.

Jesus told the churches in Revelation 2-3 they must repent or be removed from his presence.

This very same teaching is all over Paul's letters, in Peter's, James, etc.

 

[Lambano]

This very same teaching is all over Paul's letters, in Peter's, James, etc.

And don't forget Hebrews.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ dying for sins according to scripture shows that His Death was limited to s definite people. 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Now according to scripture He died as an Great High Priest as it was according to scripture Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

He was an antitype of Aaron the High Priest of Israel, Aaron a type of Christ, Now I quote:


Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; Now I quote:

. The high priest represented Israel only, when he bore their names upon his heart in the breast-plate of judgment, and when he entered into the holy of holies with the names of the twelve tribes upon his breast. He bare their judgment, and theirs only, before the Lord continually; for them he made intercession, and them he solemnly blessed. All this represented that great high priest who is passed into the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God. He took not on him human nature indefinitely, but he took on him the seed of Abraham that he might be the Goel, the kinsman of the heirs of promise, and so possess a legal right to redeem them. As their high priest, he made reconciliation for the sins of his people; for them he appears in the presence of God; them he represents; for them he intercedes, and them he will finally bless. He saves none but those for whom he intercedes; he intercedes for none but those for whom he died; he died for none but those to whom he stands related as their kinsman redeemer. A Defense of Particular Redemption - William Rushton

The difference however, The Israel under the Old Covenant was primarily comprised of Abrahams Physical seed, but under the New Covenant Israel has expanded to include people of all different nations which are Abrahams Spiritual seed. Nevertheless, the atonement is Limited to Israel gods chosen people and not all mankind, that would destroy the typology of scripture. Remember the text says He died according to the scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

Also Notice how Christ is at the Right Hand of God now for the elect after having died . Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Now isnt He shown to be the High Priest at the Right Hand of God here Heb 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Isnt that the same Christ in Rom 8:34 ? Of course it is, and so it is the People He died for in Rom 8:34 the elect as its the elect He died for in Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

BTW didn't Paul indicate the Roman Believers consisting of Gentiles were the seed of Abraham ? Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[Rightglory]

You didn't save yourself and you had nothing to do with your salvation, and you can't crawl back out of Jesus hand. He owns you. 1 Cor. 6:19. Once you become a Child of God, you can backslide, and repent, but Jesus didn't let you go, by your own admission. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation, and it is gift that you didn't deserve, and you would not have asked for. Basically, you are calling God a liar if He is unable to keep you saved.

I find it amazing that so many are not consistent with their theology. We have a statement above that God is a liar if He is unable to keep someone saved. Of course, first no one has been saved in their lifetimes. However, God chose not to keep Adam from falling. Why do you think that He has changed His mind about you.
The fact is that God is using your faith and testing it with the trials and tribulations of this life. Many do not remain faithful, thus will not inherit salvation at the end of their lives. The same was for Adam. God has not changed. Although some may think that God changes, even though scripture says He does not change, same today and forever. By the way, man has everything to do with his salvation. Our relationship with God is a mutual affair, not a one way unilateral autocratic force.
Another inconsistency is that if it was all up to God, every person in the world would have salvation, since that is what He actually desires.
Forced love is not love, it is called something else. God is love. He permits man to decide whether he will serve Him or serve Satan. You have a choice. It is all yours. You are a participant in a war between God and Satan over your soul.

 

[Ritajanice]

Name one verse that Jesus said you will lose your salvation.

We can never be un- birthed from the Living Spirit Of God, as his word says, whoever the Father gives to the Son he won’t lose one....as long as it’s the Father who gave them to the Son.

As a Born Again...I would NEVER deliberately disobey God....I’m shaking in my boots just thinking about it...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh really prove it

I already have. The ball is in YOUR court.
If you believe in a perverted doctrine that was NEVER taught by the Early Church - you need to provide a defense of it.

You "debate" like a child. . .

 

[Rockerduck]

I find it amazing that so many are not consistent with their theology. We have a statement above that God is a liar if He is unable to keep someone saved. Of course, first no one has been saved in their lifetimes. However, God chose not to keep Adam from falling. Why do you think that He has changed His mind about you.
The fact is that God is using your faith and testing it with the trials and tribulations of this life. Many do not remain faithful, thus will not inherit salvation at the end of their lives. The same was for Adam. God has not changed. Although some may think that God changes, even though scripture says He does not change, same today and forever. By the way, man has everything to do with his salvation. Our relationship with God is a mutual affair, not a one way unilateral autocratic force.
Another inconsistency is that if it was all up to God, every person in the world would have salvation, since that is what He actually desires.
Forced love is not love, it is called something else. God is love. He permits man to decide whether he will serve Him or serve Satan. You have a choice. It is all yours. You are a participant in a war between God and Satan over your soul.

I'll just leave you with this.
John 10:28-29 - And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Ritajanice]

I'll just leave you with this.
John 10:28-29 - And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.30 I and My Father are one.”

Yes, God showed me last night, that it serves no purpose going round and round in circles...as long as it was the Father who gave them to Jesus, then none ,not one can snatch them out of his hand...we have him testifying that truth to our heart/ spirit also......Praise God.

 

[Rightglory]

I'll just leave you with this.
John 10:28-29 - And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.30 I and My Father are one.”

And who is giving the promise? rhetorical question. God is giving this promise. We are in a mutual relationship. Can you find a promise of man in scripture that he will never leave Christ? Our problem is not God. He keeps His promises, the issue man cannot. That is why we have all the warnings about remaining faithful. Most of the NT is about not falling away.

 

[Rockerduck]

And who is giving the promise? rhetorical question. God is giving this promise. We are in a mutual relationship. Can you find a promise of man in scripture that he will never leave Christ? Our problem is not God. He keeps His promises, the issue man cannot. That is why we have all the warnings about remaining faithful. Most of the NT is about not falling away.

There is nothing in Man that can do anything right. That's why we need a savior in Jesus Christ along with the Holy Spirit to guide us. There is a way that seems right to us, but it end is death, not life. Proverbs 14:12. Without the Holy Spirit to seal us, as belonging to God, we would bring disaster on ourselves. We see that daily in the news. The jails are full of people that are part of the world and the lusts of it. (Money, greed, sex). Any of those 3 can get you killed. I thank Jesus daily for saving me out of this world and I have an eternal home to go to.
Jeremiah 17:5 -
Thus says the Lord:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.

All you have to do is memorize the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:18-23, to understand how some men seem to walk away.

 

[Rightglory]

There is nothing in Man that can do anything right. That's why we need a savior in Jesus Christ along with the Holy Spirit to guide us. There is a way that seems right to us, but it end is death, not life. Proverbs 14:12. Without the Holy Spirit to seal us, as belonging to God, we would bring disaster on ourselves. We see that daily in the news. The jails are full of people that are part of the world and the lusts of it. (Money, greed, sex). Any of those 3 can get you killed. I thank Jesus daily for saving me out of this world and I have an eternal home to go to.
Jeremiah 17:5 -
Thus says the Lord:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.

All you have to do is memorize the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:18-23, to understand how some men seem to walk away.

There is nothing in Man that can do anything right. That's why we need a savior in Jesus Christ along with the Holy Spirit to guide us. There is a way that seems right to us, but it end is death, not life. Proverbs 14:12. Without the Holy Spirit to seal us, as belonging to God, we would bring disaster on ourselves. We see that daily in the news. The jails are full of people that are part of the world and the lusts of it. (Money, greed, sex). Any of those 3 can get you killed. I thank Jesus daily for saving me out of this world and I have an eternal home to go to.
Jeremiah 17:5 -
Thus says the Lord:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.

All you have to do is memorize the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:18-23, to understand how some men seem to walk away.

Yes, and the parable is one of the best examples of believers who walked away. Two examples of falling away, the first where the birds got the seed, it NEVER TOOK ROOT. Meaning the other two did take root, but the cares, tribulations, trials of life drew them away.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes, and the parable is one of the best examples of believers who walked away. Two examples of falling away, the first where the birds got the seed, it NEVER TOOK ROOT. Meaning the other two did take root, but the cares, tribulations, trials of life drew them away.

The first is where the warnings take place, the devil steals it away, immediately, from his heart.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation has always been limited to Gods Elect, Yea even the Eternal Salvation in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory. 2 Tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This compliments the OT annoucement Isa 46:13

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Salvation is solely for Israel, Gods Elect from out of the jews and Gentiles. 14

 

[brightfame52]

Those who lack genuine relationship with Jesus can still be true believers anointed with miracle power, but have no love for Jesus. Thus it's possible to believe in Jesus and offer lip service by calling him Lord, but not show genuine love by keeping his commandments. Thus they are workers of iniquity who lost their salvation like Judas, who was also a believers anointed with miraculous power according to Matthew 10:1-4 and Mark 16:17. This is spiritual works aren't evidence of salvation. Paul said that even with great spiritual works, if they are without love, they are worthless in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3.

The answer is NO He would never ever say that to anyone He Loved and gave Himself for, that He never knew them. They could not have been a Sheep of His because this He says about them Jn 10:14

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

He could have never been their Shepherd and disown them like that.

 

[brightfame52]

I already have. The ball is in YOUR court.
If you believe in a perverted doctrine that was NEVER taught by the Early Church - you need to provide a defense of it.

You "debate" like a child. . .

You haven't disproved limited atonement.