Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

He died for many, not all

for by his righteousness many {not all} were justified, {Is.53:11,} because he bare or suffered for their iniquities;

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Heb 9:28

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. 13

 

[brightfame52]

Then, not only bare you a fraud - you have disobeyed a dire ct Biblical command ALWAYS be ready to give a reason for this hopr of yours (2 Pet. 3:15).

Bottonm line: If you can't explain it from Scripture - then it's NOT Scriptural . . .

You cant prove it

 

[brightfame52]

Question for all the Reformed theologians on this board since @brightfame52 tapped out.

Question, if Judas were never a genuine believer, why should Jesus have empowered him to drive out demons in Matt 10:1-4, something he elsewhere says is impossible for an unbeliever in Matt 12:24-28?

Where these saved believers Jesus said He never knew who cast out devils in his name Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Culd judas be one of these many ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Where these saved believers Jesus said He never knew who cast out devils in his name Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Culd judas be one of these many ?

Yes, that is true, I very nearly posted that scripture...thank you.

 

[Ritajanice]

You cant prove it

The thing is though, you have already posted support of limited atonement verses...yet, some won’t address that scripture that you post and the same could be said about you I guess....you won’t address scripture that they post....or even if you do..it’s your interpretation of scripture..same as theirs...

You are apposed to the beliefs of each other....and so it goes on and on....

 

[Runningman]

Where these saved believers Jesus said He never knew who cast out devils in his name Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Culd judas be one of these many ?

Exactly. This passage is a proof text against limited atonement. It shows that those who are of the supposed “elect” status, true believers with spiritual power, losing their salvation on the grounds of being workers of iniquity. In other words, they became unrepentant sinners. Limited atonement says this is impossible, but as you just showed us it is possible.

 

[brightfame52]

Exactly. This passage is a proof text against limited atonement. It shows that those who are of the supposed “elect” status, true believers with spiritual power, losing their salvation on the grounds of being workers of iniquity. In other words, they became unrepentant sinners. Limited atonement says this is impossible, but as you just showed us it is possible.

Where they saved or ever saved when Jesus said He never knew them ? Yes or no

 

[Rightglory]

So is those who disagree with limited atonement...it can’t be proven either way....you have those who believe in freewill, you have those who don’t believe in freewill...

Same as in limited atonement...some believe it some don’t...it can’t be proven either way...scripture supports both....

Scripture is what men want it to say for their own purposes. Every false teaching that has to date been promulgated has been based on scripture. Here are some that arose during the first 5 centuries. Paul even stated that many false teachers would arise and lead man away from the once given Gospel. Arianism, Nestorianism, Monotheletism, Universalism, Millenarianism, Pelagianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism, Donotism Docetism, Marcionism, Monophysitism and there are more. Most of these were mostly originated by Bishops, primarily because they were the educated class. Parishioners for the most part could not read or write.

Those that think scripture actually holds all of these teachings including the two mentioned above, Limited atonement, which the Church has condemned as well, and that man does not have a free will. Man was created with a free will so that man could interact with His Creator in an act of love. True love cannot exist outside of free will. Yet the whole of Calvinism is one of denial of man's free will. Man becomes an object to be manipulated, has no intrinsic value or purpose of existence.
Scripture does not teach contradictions.

 

[Ritajanice]

Scripture is what men want it to say for their own purposes. Every false teaching that has to date been promulgated has been based on scripture. Here are some that arose during the first 5 centuries. Paul even stated that many false teachers would arise and lead man away from the once given Gospel. Arianism, Nestorianism, Monotheletism, Universalism, Millenarianism, Pelagianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism, Donotism Docetism, Marcionism, Monophysitism and there are more. Most of these were mostly originated by Bishops, primarily because they were the educated class. Parishioners for the most part could not read or write.

Those that think scripture actually holds all of these teachings including the two mentioned above, Limited atonement, which the Church has condemned as well, and that man does not have a free will. Man was created with a free will so that man could interact with His Creator in an act of love. True love cannot exist outside of free will. Yet the whole of Calvinism is one of denial of man's free will. Man becomes an object to be manipulated, has no intrinsic value or purpose of existence.
Scripture does not teach contradictions.

That’s your commentary...

Scripture doesn’t contradict the Living testimony of the Spirit...sure as Henry some men do..

 

[Rockerduck]

Exactly. This passage is a proof text against limited atonement. It shows that those who are of the supposed “elect” status, true believers with spiritual power, losing their salvation on the grounds of being workers of iniquity. In other words, they became unrepentant sinners. Limited atonement says this is impossible, but as you just showed us it is possible.

In my 40 years of Christian ministry, never once in my life has someone told me they lost their Salvation. However, every born again from above believer lived every day for Christ and all who passed from this world, praised God before they slept.

 

[Rightglory]

That’s your commentary...

Scripture doesn’t contradict the Living testimony of the Spirit...sure as Henry some men do..

Yes, commentary based on 2000 years of consistent teaching of the Truth of scripture. You really don't know what you are saying. You give credence to two teachings that have opposite views based on scripture, then say scripture does not contradict. You are correct scripture has never contradicted itself, but men do it all the time as evidence by your own words. The Holy Spirit does not lead men to false teachings.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, commentary based on 2000 years of consistent teaching of the Truth of scripture. You really don't know what you are saying.

Neither do you..Especially of spiritual matters....

You give credence to two teachings that have opposite views based on scripture, then say scripture does not contradict. You are correct scripture has never contradicted itself, but men do it all the time as evidence by your own words. The Holy Spirit does not lead men to false teachings.

According to you, yes....I also see your own twisted words making scripture say what you want it to say..and everyone else’s understanding of scripture in inferior to your own understanding of scripture....that’s if they disagree with you..

 

[Rightglory]

In my 40 years of Christian ministry, never once in my life has someone told me they lost their Salvation. However, every born again from above believer lived every day for Christ and all who passed from this world, praised God before they slept.

I have agreed with some of what you have stated to date. However, no one has yet shown that any believer is a saved person. That one has salvation and could lose it. It is impossible to lose one's salvation because you can only inherit it after you have died. I Pet 1:3-5 is the clearest text that says one will inherit salvation at the end, IF they have been faithful, It is all about losing faith which is the foundation of ones lived life in this world. Scripture never admonishes against salvation. The NT is full of admonishment to hold one's faith, to remain steadfast in one's faith. Every single Book, exception, Philemon, has something to say about not losing faith. Why? Because our lives IN Christ is based on our faith. It is all about man's free will to abide or not to abide IN Christ. It has never been about HAVING SALVATION,
Adam did not have salvation either before he sinned. It was all about he obeying God's commands. He was free to follow, or he could disobey. Christ restored mankind to that same freedom when He recreated God's creation back to its original intent. It is why Baptism is called regeneration. It regenerates man's positive answer to God's call to be united with Him. The eternal relationship Adam lost for us.

 

[Rightglory]

Neither do you..Especially of spiritual matters....

According to you, yes....I also see your own twisted words making scripture say what you want it to say..and everyone else’s understanding of scripture in inferior to your own understanding of scripture....that’s if they disagree with you..

Typical response of someone who has no answer. Ad hominins.

 

[Ritajanice]

Typical response of someone who has no answer. Ad hominins.

Plenty of questions that I have asked you , have gone unanswered...as for Ad hominin...I suggest that you read some of your posts to not only me...also to Brightfame.

 

[Rockerduck]

I have agreed with some of what you have stated to date. However, no one has yet shown that any believer is a saved person. That one has salvation and could lose it. It is impossible to lose one's salvation because you can only inherit it after you have died. I Pet 1:3-5 is the clearest text that says one will inherit salvation at the end, IF they have been faithful, It is all about losing faith which is the foundation of ones lived life in this world. Scripture never admonishes against salvation. The NT is full of admonishment to hold one's faith, to remain steadfast in one's faith. Every single Book, exception, Philemon, has something to say about not losing faith. Why? Because our lives IN Christ is based on our faith. It is all about man's free will to abide or not to abide IN Christ. It has never been about HAVING SALVATION,
Adam did not have salvation either before he sinned. It was all about he obeying God's commands. He was free to follow, or he could disobey. Christ restored mankind to that same freedom when He recreated God's creation back to its original intent. It is why Baptism is called regeneration. It regenerates man's positive answer to God's call to be united with Him. The eternal relationship Adam lost for us.

Old argument I've heard a thousand times. Free will does not exist, only free choice and Adam made a choice to disobey a command of God, plain and simple.
Born again from above believers are known by their fruit and are dedicated to Christ in action and spirit. When I hold a bible study, all I have to do is talk about God's grace and I can feel the Holy Spirit moving in the room as Christians get excited talking about Jesus and their salvation. You should not be insecure of your salvation that you did nothing to get, because it is a gift that is irrevocable, that is, you didn't deserve it the first place. If you did not deserve it, and you did not ask for it, how can you possibly lose your salvation.

 

[Rightglory]

Old argument I've heard a thousand times. Free will does not exist, only free choice and Adam made a choice to disobey a command of God, plain and simple.
Born again from above believers are known by their fruit and are dedicated to Christ in action and spirit. When I hold a bible study, all I have to do is talk about God's grace and I can feel the Holy Spirit moving in the room as Christians get excited talking about Jesus and their salvation. You should not be insecure of your salvation that you did nothing to get, because it is a gift that is irrevocable, that is, you didn't deserve it the first place. If you did not deserve it, and you did not ask for it, how can you possibly lose your salvation.

So, instead of defending or proving a believer has salvation, you do what most do is speak about assurance. There is a vast difference between the two. The former no one has, the latter, every believing person has it, or at least should.

 

[shepherdsword]

Plenty of questions that I have asked you , have gone unanswered...as for Ad hominin...I suggest that you read some of your posts to not only me...also to Brightfame.

You said I never answered your questions too...that was a total lie. Go back and actually read my posts. I answered all of your questions. You are the one that thinks they have some superior scriptural interpretation...yet you present utter nonsense

 

[Ritajanice]

You said I never answered your questions too...that was a total lie. Go back and actually read my posts. I answered all of your questions.

I did..you answered a few..not all.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?....

You are the one that thinks they have some superior scriptural interpretation

Not at all... you just don’t like me giving my Living testimony....Gods Living testimony birthed my spirit into His...never ever to be denied...I have a new heart and spirit within..plus we are partakers Of the divine nature?

...yet you present utter nonsense

You did not answer my question..i asked you how you know God/ Jesus?

Or did I miss it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You cant prove it

The onus is on YOU to prove the false 16th century invention of Limited Atonement.
My job was to DISprove it - which I have done.

You have repatedly failed to supp[ort it Scripturally . . .