Born again - Before, or After, the Call?

[Lambano]

How does one repent of unbelief?

Loathe as I am to come to the defense of one of Behold's preachy pronouncements (and you were right to call "BS" with an exclamation point on most of that post), repentance, Greek metanoia, means "a change of mind". Changing from unbelief to belief certainly aligns with that definition.

 

[Lambano]

How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?

Thirty years, in my case. Assuming that the event I've tentatively identified with "spiritual rebirth" was what I think it was. It isn't that cut-and-dry. A lot of the folks in my Bible Study group (we talk about stuff like this) didn't have ANY event they could identify with "spiritual rebirth"; it's like they always "just believed". And their lives show His handiwork.

 

[JBO]

Loathe as I am to come to the defense of one of Behold's preachy pronouncements (and you were right to call "BS" with an exclamation point on most of that post), repentance, Greek metanoia, means "a change of mind". Changing from unbelief to belief certainly aligns with that definition.

Perhaps, but that is not really what is typically meant in the scriptures, particularly the NT, when it speaks of the need to repent. As James noted in James 2:19, even the demons believe. Repentance is almost always spoken of in relation to sin. Not only are we to believe that is wrong to sin, we are to do our best to not sin.

 

[Lambano]

How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?

Incapable of studying up on it on your own?

The ordo salutis, the question of whether faith and repentance come before or after regeneration is one of the key differentiators between the Calvinism and Arminianism. The Baptists who messed me up as a teen said a Christian should always have a place and time they can point to and say, "This is when I was born again". For me, it was 30 years later; very Arminian. For sister @Ritajanice, rebirth came first; very Calvinist. Though her statement that for her, repentance came first, doesn't fit in that nice neat little Calvinist box. That's why I hope she'll change her mind and explain what she meant.

And yes, I am studying it. I'm listening to real people give their real testimonies. This is better than the theology books on the shelf here to my right.

 

[JBO]

And yes, I am studying it. I'm listening to real people give their real testimonies. This is better than the theology books on the shelf here to my right.

The thing that you need to determine is which "real testimonies of real people" are consistent with scripture.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is required; it is not imposed. The very first instance of spiritual rebirth, as you call it, was recorded in Acts 2:38.

Was Nicodemus there? (John 3:7)

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[St. SteVen]

The thing that you need to determine is which "real testimonies of real people" are consistent with scripture.

Perhaps you need to consider whether your interpretation of scripture is consistent with testimonies.

In a court of law, testimony trumps facts.

Amazing to me that testimonies are held in contempt while we cling to our personal interpretation of scripture.
Which may well be in error.

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[JBO]

Was Nicodemus there? (John 3:7)

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Who knows?

 

[Lambano]

Perhaps, but that is not really what is typically meant in the scriptures, particularly the NT, when it speaks of the need to repent. As James noted in James 2:19, even the demons believe. Repentance is almost always spoken of in relation to sin. Not only are we to believe that is wrong to sin, we are to do our best to not sin.

If you've used the KJV, you may have noticed that the KJV translators used the English word "repentance" and cognates in ways that in the 21st century sound strange: "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29). Say what? "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.". Different words in the Greek and the Hebrew; same word in English.

One of the definitions of "repentance" (from a 5-pointer): "Biblical repentance is agreeing with God about who He is, who you are, what you've done, and what needs to change". Notably, this change of heart occurs BEFORE the change of the behavior. Sometimes even a Calvinist gets it right.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thirty years, in my case. Assuming that the event I've tentatively identified with "spiritual rebirth" was what I think it was. It isn't that cut-and-dry. A lot of the folks in my Bible Study group (we talk about stuff like this) didn't have ANY event they could identify with "spiritual rebirth"; it's like they always "just believed". And their lives show His handiwork.

Agree.
When I learned this about others, including my dear wife, I was surprised.
I had an event, several actually. But that's just me.
I think God needed to hit me in the head with a beam.
I'm pretty thick-headed. - LOL

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[JBO]

If you've used the KJV, you may have noticed that the KJV translators used the English word "repentance" and cognates in ways that in the 21st century sound strange: "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29). Say what? "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.". Different words in the Greek and the Hebrew; same word in English.

One of the definitions of "repentance" (from a 5-pointer): "Biblical repentance is agreeing with God who He is, who you are, what you've done, and what needs to change". Notably, this change of heart occurs BEFORE the change of the behavior. Sometimes even a Calvinist gets it right.

That is just one of the many reasons why the KJV is not my first source for biblical truth.

 

[Lambano]

In a court of law, testimony trumps facts.

Gotta correct you here. Testimonies are one of many forms of evidence. Physical evidence is another. As are written documents.

 

[Lambano]

I had an event, several actually. But that's just me.
I think God needed to hit me in the head with a beam.

I hope He keeps at it until He gets it right!

 

[christsavedme]

Unwillingness to willingness makes no sense to me....because of the way I became Born Again.

It only makes sense when God after I became Born Again showed me his will/ spoke to my heart regarding an area in my life.

I said No way, I didn’t know at the time I was being disobedient to Gods calling as I was a new Babe...I wish I could share unfortunately I can’t maybe one day....there are two of us involved....we both had to come to submission...only the Spirit at work in us could bring us to that place....which he now has...we are both in harmony with the will of God...it has taken 32 years to get us to this place....my testimony and belief...I pray God allows me to share one day....when it comes to pass, which I know it will 100% .

I became Born Again completely and utterly out of the blue...as Gods word says, he’s like the wind , you never know the time or place that he will Birth you in His Spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.....that’s how I relate to the Living spiritual rebirth, my testimony is private ,I’ve shared it on here before and I don’t intend to share it again..

I was on my bed sobbing my heart out, listening to secular music, a band called Roxette, the song was called it must have been Love.

All of my life I have been starved of Love...never knew it at the time, not until God via His Spirit,came into me as he was coming in through my body, His spirit testifies with my spirit that I was Born Again / His child...he birthed my spirit into His, Spirit gives birth to spirit ....His Spirit spoke to my spirit, straight away I knew I was Born Again ..that was all I knew.

It blew my socks off that Living Heart revelation from His Spirit to my spirit....he has taken up residence in my spirit, there he has resided for nearly 33 years...I was also given the gift of Faith that is very much Alive and Active, a manifestation of the Spirit...

My faith because it was God given has grown beyond my comprehension.....I know he is in every single situation in my life...100%...

I did not choose God he chose me, according to his purpose and plan....a Born Again Glorifies the Father, why because they have the witness the Holy Spirit who Glorifies the Father through us...how could I possibly know Jesus even existed, without becoming Born Of The Spirit....?

Only the Spirit can be a witness to the Father...how would I know how to witness of the Father without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

My testimony and belief 100% never ever changed....I know the evening and the bed I was sobbing my heart out....when God came to me in His Mercy.....

He misses NOTHING and I will never be able to thank him enough for sending His only Son to that cross and died an horrific death..all for a wretched sinner like me....I also never knew I was a sinner when I was in the carnal nature...not until I received that new nature...my sins have all been forgiven past, present and future.

I have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed, by the Living word of God.

Hallelujah!!!...and Praise God!!

Wow, Ritajanice, your testimony is so powerful! It really shows how the Holy Spirit can move in unexpected ways, like a wind blowing through your life when you least expect it. I love how you describe that moment of being Born Again—it’s like God reached right into your heart and filled it with His love.

Your story reminds me of how God can heal deep emotional wounds, like feeling starved for love. That moment when the Spirit spoke to your spirit sounds like a profound shift, almost like a therapy breakthrough, but way bigger because it’s God at work! Historically, early Christians like John Wesley talked about these “heart-warming” experiences where the Spirit confirms we’re God’s children, just like you felt.

Your journey from saying “No way” to submitting to God’s will over 32 years is so inspiring. It shows how the gift of faith grows over time, like a seed planted by God. I also love how you tie it to the new covenant —Jesus’ sacrifice making us new. That’s the heart of the Gospel!

I’m curious—what’s one way the Holy Spirit has surprised you in your faith lately? Maybe a moment where you felt that same “blow your socks off” kind of revelation? Thanks for sharing such a beautiful story!

 

[Lambano]

That is just one of the many reasons why the KJV is not my first source for biblical truth.

Mine either.

 

[St. SteVen]

JBO said:
It is required; it is not imposed. The very first instance of spiritual rebirth, as you call it, was recorded in Acts 2:38.

Who knows?

So, the Apostles did not have the spiritual rebirth before Pentecost?
They were drawing others to the outpouring. Why point to verse thirty-eight?
Why not verse three? (although I assume much earlier)

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[St. SteVen]

Wow, Ritajanice, your testimony is so powerful!

So true.
Welcome to the forum. (a year ago) - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

I hope He keeps at it until He gets it right!

Your patience with me is much appreciated.

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[St. SteVen]

Amazing to me that testimonies are held in contempt while we cling to our personal interpretation of scripture.
Which may well be in error.

--- PARODY ---

Christian #1: Here's my testimony ...
Christian #2: Are you calling God a liar?
Christian #1: Sigh.

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[Lambano]