Born again - Before, or After, the Call?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
It depends on who you ask. One size does not fit all.
I'm not talking about the Calvinist vs. Arminian ordo salutis. I'm talking about people's actual testimonies. And many (if not most) can't even identify a place and time when they experienced "spiritual rebirth", whatever that is. But of course, both sides think their experience is normative and there's something wrong with the other guy's.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
It comes after repentance..that’s my belief.
What do you believe?
I know exactly where I was when my spirit was birthed into Christ...I will NEVER forget Spirit gives birth to spirit, as long as I live....it “ blew my mind”....still does...33 years on.....I still can’t believe that God recognises me as his spirit child....the Spirit indwells little old me....beyond my comprehension how God did it..,it’s amazing how our spirit recognises his Spirit immediately......he just knows how to reveal himself to our spirit/ heart....His Love completely overwhelmed my heart, I fell immediately in love with the Spirit Of God....I believe I’d been waiting for his true love all of my life...I often wondered as a non believer that I was once....what it was like to be truly in Love.....well, here I am am ,truly in Love and besotted with the Living Spirit Of God...
No man has ever been able to love me like God...I’ve never been in Love....that was, until the Spirit Of God came along...my testimony and belief.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
@Ritajanice, that answer surprises me. I was thinking of your testimony when I wrote, "one size does not fit all". My understanding is that you were born again first, then you were given faith. (With my unstated assumption that "repentance" comes from faith. I can explain that more if needed.) Could you elaborate on why you think repentance come first, then being born again?
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Your thoughts here are probably all wrapped up in the phrase there, "spiritual rebirth", whatever that is. Anyone does not know what spiritual rebirth is cannot even properly discuss it.
St. SteVen said:
What is your definition of repentance? (process or one-time event?)
Does spiritual rebirth come before or after repentance?
How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?
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What is your definition of repentance? (process or one-time event?)
Does spiritual rebirth come before or after repentance?
But you agreed that repentance is a process.
How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?
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J. Preston Eby states that spiritual rebirth comes first.
But I don't want to put God in a box.
I can see it happening either way.
@Lambano nailed it in post #122.
Humans have a natural tendency to want to clean up their lives before they come to God.
But is that true repentance, or a fleshly desire to behave properly?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Feel free to offer your definition. Or to testify to your experience with "spiritual rebirth".
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
That’s true...I was like that..my life was such a mess...i was really searching from within myself...then along came God like a bolt of lightning ( you know what I mean by that) the rest is history.
Praise God that he has done so much healing in me ...and is always helping me work on my behaviour..
My Son doesn’t recognise me....he asked where the old me went...LOL.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I would rather steer away from explaining why I believe repentance comes before faith...God brought me to repentance...plus..as you know there have been heated discussions on a thread.....I really don’t want to open myself up to arguing..I’m not saying that you will argue...I would just rather pass on it, if that’s ok.
Yes. Please explain in more detail that repentance comes from faith..I’m all ears....to be honest I can’t even remember that part, only that God brought me to repentance...and I remember my spirit birth like it were yesterday.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
You mean repentance comes before being born-again, right? That was @St. SteVen's question.
The subjects are interrelated, so I'll try to touch gently.
Why did you repent? What led you to change your mind about how you were living? Was it because you believed you were doing things that God didn't like? Was it because "I was like that..my life was such a mess" and you knew God could do something about it? Or did you change your ways because "His Love completely overwhelmed my heart, I fell immediately in love with the Spirit Of God."
There are no wrong answers. This is YOUR testimony.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
This is, as @St. SteVen has said, really great stuff! I believe we really need to be reminded to let God out of our tidy little boxes.
It's immensely interesting to me that Jesus said "When you are converted/returned" (Like 22:32) to Peter—who had been by His side for 3 years.
This tells me that I don't understand nearly as much as I ought to, perhaps, about the working of the Holy Spirit.
When I have a book right in my hands that contains so much information about Christ, I can't imagine walking with Him physically for 3 years without being profoundly changed!
And, yet, Christ seemed to have determined that Peter still "didn't get it." Although he seemed to exhibit some degree of remorse for sin at their very first meeting:
Luke 5:8 — When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus's knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
He still didn't realize how deep the sin problem was, and I I think Christ was simply diagnosing Peter's carnal Christianity. He was still stuck in old covenant thinking, offering swords to everyone while he had the beloved Commander of Heaven's hosts standing right beside him.
This is what we do, btw, isn't it?
I don't mean to say that we carnal Christians are "in a lost state," because I've long ago abandoned the school of thought that seems to stipulate that we slip into and out of a saved condition as often as we change our undergarments. I'm trying to get "childish things put away."
Paul does distinguish between "natural" people who don't care about, or disdain spiritual things, "spiritual" people who love and discern spiritual things, and "carnal" people who are familiar with spiritual things but have not yet matured and consented to a willingness to submission. This is found in 1 Corinthians 2:13 through 3:4.
In most cases repentance is a natural outflow of a spiritual rebirth.
Because of a spiritual rebirth, a person WANTS to turn away from sin.
Thoughts about confession and repentance - not the same thing
I have observed that the terms confession and repentance are often misunderstood. The disconnect seems to be about the term confession. The term repent, or repented is used where confession is intended. - "Did you repent of your sins?" Instead of, "Did you confess your sins?" - "I...
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St. SteVen said:
What is your definition of repentance? (process or one-time event?)
Does spiritual rebirth come before or after repentance?
But you agreed that repentance is a process.
How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?
There is no renewed relationship without it.
"Ye must be born again."
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What is your definition of repentance? (process or one-time event?)
Does spiritual rebirth come before or after repentance?
But you agreed that repentance is a process.
How long until spiritual rebirth occurs?
God doesn't impose a spiritual rebirth? Say what?
There is no renewed relationship without it.
"Ye must be born again."
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
I posted my testimony....then deleted it.
I don’t need to prove anything to anyone....not that you are asking me to....I’m just explaining....I am very secure in my Living testimony , faith and belief...I’m in the Love Of God and my spirit knows that it’s Born Again...I am just going to post what I believe God places on my heart to post...he told me to delete my own personal testimony.....it’s no one else’s business.....it’s only between God and myself...that is why I deleted it, just so you know.
Behold
Well-Known Member
1.) Actually, its ""the Goodness of God that leads you to repentance"...., and that repentance is to repent of unbelief.
2.) To repent of unbelief means you have chosen to give your Faith in Christ to God.
3.) God then accepts your faith.........as our "faith is counted by God as Righteousness".
4.) God then forgives all sin, and now being made free from sin.....God is able to (Spiritually) join Himself to the forgiven Believer.
5.) This "Spiritual" Joining......is taught by the NT as being 'IN Christ'......"one with God'...... = Born Again.
It is required; it is not imposed. The very first instance of spiritual rebirth, as you call it, was recorded in Acts 2:38.
You put that in quotations; quoted from what? How does one repent of unbelief? That doesn't even make any sense. We repent of our sins.
Give your Faith in Christ to God??? What does that even mean? Faith is something you do. To have faith is to believe in God. Faith is belief in God.
The righteousness of God is imputed to the repentant believer. It is also called being justified.
I don't recall ever reading about any such "spiritual joining. Perhaps you could point out for us where you read that.
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