How many worlds filled with people has God made?

[The Gospel of Christ]

So if this was true would you agree to the claim that Jesus Christ lacks the power and authority to control what went in to His canon?

If so, that means God's Word cannot be trusted and should be tossed in the trash because it would be filled with lies if in fact Jesus Christ lacks the power and authority to control what went in to His canon

The truth of the matter is it was the Lord personally Who decided what went in to the Word of God as He influenced mankind to include some writings while excluding others. Like a lot of writings, the Book of Enoch contains some historical value but it it not the inspired Word of the Living God.

No, I don’t think any serious scholar would interpret it that way.
The Book of Enoch wasn’t excluded by Jesus — it was excluded by Rome, for very nefarious and political reasons.

It’s not about Christ lacking authority.
It’s about men abusing theirs.

Rome didn’t erase it because it lacked value — they erased it because it exposed too much.
That’s not divine editing.
That’s censorship.

The Book of Enoch (1 Enoch) was found in multiple fragments among the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran in the 1940s, written in ancient Aramaic and Hebrew — the same languages as the Old Testament.

It was preserved directly within and alongside Isaiah, Psalms, Genesis, and Deuteronomy —
not in some side pile of junk writings.

The Qumran community (likely Essenes) considered Enoch sacred, authoritative, and prophetic

It pre-dates Jesus — meaning Enoch was part of Second Temple Jewish theology

Jude directly quotes it (Jude 1:14–15), calling it prophecy

The Dead Sea Scrolls didn’t just preserve Enoch —
they proved it was considered sacred by the very people who were preserving the Word of God.

What does that mean? It means Enoch absolutely should have been in the Old Testament —
right there with Isaiah, Psalms, Genesis, and Deuteronomy — exactly where it was found.

Rome didn’t protect the canon.

Rome censored it.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You said All Jewish and Christians scholars held this view. Now you are back peddling?

RC Sproul's teaching:
[The immediate context of Genesis 6 supports this conclusion that the " sons of God" are men from the lineage of Seth. Following the narrative of the fall in Genesis 3, the Bible traces the lines of two families, the descendants of Cain and of Seth. Cain’s line is recounted in Genesis 4, and this line displays proliferating wickedness, capped by Lamech, who was the first polygamist (Gen. 4:19) and who rejoiced in murderous, vengeful use of the sword (Gen. 4: 23–24). By contrast, the line of Seth, which is traced in Genesis 5, displays righteousness. This line includes Enoch, who “walked with God, and . . . was not, for God took him” (Gen. 4:24). In the line of Seth was born Noah, who was “a righteous man, blameless in his generation” (Gen. 6:9). Thus, we see two lines, one obeying God and the other willfully disobeying Him.

Therefore, many Hebrew scholars believe that Genesis 6 is describing not the intermarriage of angels and human women but the intermarriage of the descendents of Cain and Seth. The two lines, one godly and one wicked, come together, and suddenly everyone is caught up in the pursuit of evil, such that “every intention of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). We do not need to surmise an invasion of the earth by angels in order to make sense of this chapter.]

No, I didn’t backpedal. I said that no ancient Jew, Second Temple writer, Qumran scribe, Septuagint translator, early Church Father, or New Testament author interpreted the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 as humans. That’s not my opinion — that’s the historical record.

The Sethite view didn’t even exist until Augustine, over 300 years after Christ, when Roman theologians started retrofitting the Bible to match their philosophical worldview. They weren’t interpreting Genesis — they were sanitizing it.

RC Sproul was a modern theologian giving a Reformation-era opinion. But that opinion contradicts the ancient Hebrew worldview, ignores the Book of Enoch (which Jude quotes), dismisses the Septuagint translation (angels), and rewrites the earliest Christian consensus — from Justin Martyr to Tertullian to Irenaeus.

If Genesis 6 is just about two families intermarrying, explain the Nephilim, the giants, the "mighty men of old", and why the result is so catastrophic God wipes out nearly all of creation.

Jude says the angels "left their proper dwelling" and pursued "unnatural desire."
Peter says they were cast into Tartarus.
Enoch names them.

So let me get this straight — you want me to ignore the text, ignore the scrolls, ignore the Apostles, ignore the earliest Church Fathers, ignore Enoch, ignore Jude…

And take the word of RC Sproul over all that?

Come on, man.

 

[Dash RipRock]

No, I don’t think any serious scholar would interpret it that way.

Not concerned about scholars because they aren't the Lord.

There's only One Teacher, and these so called scholars aren't Him.

it was excluded by Rome, for very nefarious and political reasons.

OK then, sounds like Jesus is powerless to control what goes in to His Book

If that is true then the Bible cannot and should not be trusted and should be tossed in the garbage.

It’s about men abusing theirs.

And apparently some think the Lord is powerless to do anything about it.

That’s censorship.

And apparently some think the Lord is powerless to do anything about it.

The Book of Enoch suggests that salvation can be achieved through works and knowledge, which contradicts the New Testament

The Book of Enoch suggests a timeline of events that is inconsistent with the biblical account. For instance, it implies that certain events took place before the Great Flood that the Bible indicates happened afterwards.

The Book of Enoch describes geographical locations that do not align with historical or current geographical knowledge.

The Book of Enoch’s end times prophecies often contradict those found in the canonical books of Daniel and Revelation leading to confusion and misinterpretation.

Questionable Authenticity: The fact that the Book of Enoch was written by multiple authors over a long period raises questions about its authenticity. It’s difficult to determine how much of the book is original and how much may have been added or altered over time.

The authorship of the Book of Enoch is uncertain. While it is named after the biblical figure Enoch, it is widely accepted that he did not write this book. It is believed to have been written by multiple authors over several centuries long after Enoch was taken by the Lord.

Contradictions and Inaccuracies: The numerous contradictions and inaccuracies found in the Book of Enoch raise doubts about its divine inspiration.

Focus on Extra-Biblical Revelations: The Book of Enoch focuses heavily on revelations and events that are not mentioned in the Bible. This emphasis on extra-biblical revelations can distract from the core teachings of the Bible and lead to speculative and potentially misleading beliefs.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Not concerned about scholars because they aren't the Lord.

There's only One Teacher, and these so called scholars aren't Him.





OK then, sounds like Jesus is powerless to control what goes in to His Book

If that is true then the Bible cannot and should not be trusted and should be tossed in the garbage.




And apparently some think the Lord is powerless to do anything about it.




And apparently some think the Lord is powerless to do anything about it.

The Book of Enoch suggests that salvation can be achieved through works and knowledge, which contradicts the New Testament

The Book of Enoch suggests a timeline of events that is inconsistent with the biblical account. For instance, it implies that certain events took place before the Great Flood that the Bible indicates happened afterwards.

The Book of Enoch describes geographical locations that do not align with historical or current geographical knowledge.

The Book of Enoch’s end times prophecies often contradict those found in the canonical books of Daniel and Revelation leading to confusion and misinterpretation.

Questionable Authenticity: The fact that the Book of Enoch was written by multiple authors over a long period raises questions about its authenticity. It’s difficult to determine how much of the book is original and how much may have been added or altered over time.

The authorship of the Book of Enoch is uncertain. While it is named after the biblical figure Enoch, it is widely accepted that he did not write this book. It is believed to have been written by multiple authors over several centuries long after Enoch was taken by the Lord.

Contradictions and Inaccuracies: The numerous contradictions and inaccuracies found in the Book of Enoch raise doubts about its divine inspiration.

Focus on Extra-Biblical Revelations: The Book of Enoch focuses heavily on revelations and events that are not mentioned in the Bible. This emphasis on extra-biblical revelations can distract from the core teachings of the Bible and lead to speculative and potentially misleading beliefs.

“And apparently some think the Lord is powerless to do anything about it.”

No — the Lord allows free will. He allowed Israel to fall into idolatry. He allowed Judas to betray Christ. And He allowed Rome to canonize what served them while burying what exposed them. That’s not powerlessness. That’s judgment.

As for your Enoch objections:

Salvation by works? Enoch emphasizes judgment for wicked deeds — same as Revelation and Matthew 25. Jude even quotes it as prophecy.

Timeline contradiction? Enoch explains what happened in Genesis 6 — it doesn’t contradict it.
The idea that angels sinned before the flood is the exact context for why the flood came in the first place (Gen 6:1–4).

Geography? Ancient Hebrew cosmology isn’t bound by modern geography. That argument’s irrelevant.

Contradicts Revelation and Daniel? Actually, Enoch inspired them. Thrones, books, Son of Man imagery — all show up in Revelation after Enoch. The Son of Man imagery appears in Enoch first In fact, Revelation uses Enoch-like imagery repeatedly — not contradicting it, expanding it.

Multiple authors? So what? Psalms, Proverbs, Genesis — all had multiple contributors. That doesn’t disqualify them. And again: the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that 1 Enoch — specifically the section Jude quotes — existed long before the New Testament.

Enoch didn’t write it? Hebrews wasn’t written by “Hebrews.” Kings wasn’t written by a king. That’s not how inspiration works. Revelation wasn’t written by Jesus — and yet it speaks for Him. The name identifies the subject, not necessarily the penman.

Too much extra-biblical revelation? Jude quoted Enoch verbatim. That alone shatters the “too extra” argument.

Enoch doesn’t contradict Scripture — it challenges the power of Rome, the very system that tried to control it.
That’s why it was buried — not because it didn’t belong, but because it exposed too much about the ones who hijacked the narrative.

 

[Dash RipRock]

No — the Lord allows free will. He allowed Israel to fall into idolatry. He allowed Judas to betray Christ. And He allowed Rome to canonize what served them while burying what exposed them. That’s not powerlessness. That’s judgment.

Concerning His Own Word being put in to written Form, the Lord Jesus personally influenced mankind concerning what to put in and what to leave out including writings put in wrongly He influenced mankind to remove.

I would never claim the Lord did not have control over His canon.

If the devil can influence man to do evil, the Lord can and did certainly influence man to put certain writings in His canon and prevent other writings from being included.

If the Lord cannot do that, then He would have to be weak and inept which is what I cannot accept as that would be disrespecting and dishonoring the Lord on a personal level.

Jude quoted Enoch verbatim. That alone shatters the “too extra” argument.

As with any writing including mine and yours - sure, some of what is said is true

But that does not mean all that is said rises to the level of inspired test which is the case with the Book of Enoch

Do you think it's sinful behavior to NOT accept the Book of Enoch?

It would be sinful behavior to reject God's canon, so those that don't accept the Book of Enoch as being the inspired Word of God, are they in danger of hell fire?

One would have to say yes if they really believe the Book of Enoch is inspired of God as not accepting it is taking away from God's Word which is sinful behavior.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And you can bet THE FARM that when the Dead Sea Scrolls were uncovered in the 1940s — and it turned out to be Genesis, Enoch, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, and Psalms all together — the Vatican panic lit up like a five-alarm fire.

Behind those walls, you can almost hear the hysteria:
“How are we going to handle this?!!?!?!?”

Demons shrieking in collars and cassocks, scrambling to contain and spin the narrative before the truth spread.
Because the second Enoch came out of that cave, the vault cracked, and centuries of lies started leaking into the light.

 

[Dash RipRock]

And you can bet THE FARM that when the Dead Sea Scrolls were uncovered in the 1940s — and it turned out to be Genesis, Enoch, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, and Psalms all together — the Vatican panic lit up like a five-alarm fire.

Behind those walls, you can almost hear the hysteria:
“How are we going to handle this?!!?!?!?”

Demons shrieking in collars and cassocks, scrambling to spin the narrative before the truth spread.
Because the second Enoch came out of that cave, the vault cracked, and centuries of lies started leaking into the light.

Kinda sounds like those that don't accept the Book of Enoch are going to hell for it.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Concerning His Own Word being put in to written Form, the Lord Jesus personally influenced mankind concerning what to put in and what to leave out including writings put in wrongly He influenced mankind to remove.

I would never claim the Lord did not have control over His canon.

If the devil can influence man to do evil, the Lord can and did certainly influence man to put certain writings in His canon and prevent other writings from being included.

If the Lord cannot do that, then He would have to be weak and inept which is what I cannot accept as that would be disrespecting and dishonoring the Lord on a personal level.




As with any writing including mine and yours - sure, some of what is said is true

But that does not mean all that is said rises to the level of inspired test which is the case with the Book of Enoch

Jude didn’t just “quote something that happened to say something true.”

He called it prophecy — and he attributed it to “Enoch, the seventh from Adam.”
Not a general quote. Not a passing nod. A specific prophetic attribution tied directly to one of the most mysterious pre-Flood figures in all of Scripture.

“Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying…” – Jude 1:14

If Jude, inspired by the Holy Spirit, is quoting something as prophecy, then at minimum, the source deserves serious weight — not dismissal.

You’re saying that the devil can influence men to do evil, but the same God who gave Jude his words would just... quote an unreliable book? Prophecy from a corrupted text? Come on. That’s not protecting God’s glory — that’s making His apostles look careless.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Kinda sounds like those that don't accept the Book of Enoch are going to hell for it.

Not at all. It’s not about going to hell for not reading Enoch.

It’s about recognizing the pattern:
Whenever something threatens the systems of power, especially religious ones, those systems go into damage control

The Book of Enoch doesn’t save anyone — but it exposes things the Bible hints at:

What really happened in Genesis 6

The origin of demons

The deeper rebellion behind the Flood

And how angelic corruption was tied to human kingdoms

And that made the Vatican squirm, not because it's fiction — but because it explained too much.

So no, you're not going to hell for dismissing Enoch.
But you might be missing a giant piece of the puzzle that the early Church, the apostles, and Jude himself thought was worth preserving.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Jude didn’t just “quote something that happened to say something true.”

And of course Jude did not actually say the entire Book of Enoch is true and is the inspired Word of God.

And that made the Vatican squirm, not because it's fiction — but because it explained too much.

Too bad some think the vatican has more power than Jesus concerning God's will to provide mankind with His Word min written form

But you might be missing a giant piece of the puzzle

None to worry, God's actual canon contains all that the Lord wants His people to know without having to reply on extra biblical works.

Once you let in the Book of Enoch which was not even written by Enoch, you'll have to let in all other extra biblical works as well since many of them do contain some things that are true.

Apparently the vatican is the only power that decides what God says and what He doesn't say (being felicitous of course)

The origin of demons

Who cares about the origin of demons?

The New Testament teaches that they exist and what to do about them which should be what we focus on, especially the part about what to do about them which is to submit one's self to the Lord

Feels free to wade around in all that garbage

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And of course Jude did not actually say the entire Book of Enoch is true and is the inspired Word of God.




Too bad some think the vatican has more power than Jesus concerning God's will to provide mankind with His Word min written form




None to worry, God's actual canon contains all that the Lord wants His people to know without having to reply on extra biblical works.

Once you let in the Book of Enoch which was not even written by Enoch, you'll have to let in all other extra biblical works as well since many of them do contain some things that are true.

Apparently the vatican is the only power that decides what God says and what He doesn't say (being felicitous of course)




Who cares about the origin of demons?

The New Testament teaches that they exist and what to do about them which should be what we focus on, especially the part about what to do about them which is to submit one's self to the Lord

Feels free to wade around in all that garbage

The Vatican may have buried Enoch — but it didn’t bury the truth. Christ is the Word made flesh, not a footnote made canon.
And the irony? The Book of Enoch was found right there with Isaiah, Genesis, and Psalms in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Oops.

Looks like the truth refused to stay buried.

 

[Dash RipRock]

The Book of Enoch was found right there with Isaiah, Genesis, and Psalms in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Oops.

Yeah and other writings were found with other books of the Bible too that were not inspired of God to be included in His canon.

Just because other writings were found with other biblical books does not mean they belong in the Word of God.

You do know we had Isaiah, Genesis, and Psalms long before the Dead Sea Scrolls were ever discovered right?


When they found the Book of Enoch, they also found the Book of Jubilees, the Book of Tobit, the Wisdom of Sirach

Do you think these books are part of God's canon as well? I see you have not mentioned them.

They also found manuscripts of previously unknown documents such as the Community Rule, the War Scroll, the Pesher on Habakkuk, and The Rule of the Blessing.

All these are part of God's cannon then right?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Yeah and other writings were found with other books of the Bible too that were not inspired of God to be included in His canon.

Just because other writings were found with other biblical books does not mean they belong in the Word of God.

You do know we had Isaiah, Genesis, and Psalms long before the Dead Sea Scrolls were ever discovered right?


When they found the Book of Enoch, they also found the Book of Jubilees, the Book of Tobit, the Wisdom of Sirach

Do you think these books are part of God's canon as well? I see you have not mentioned them.

They also found manuscripts of previously unknown documents such as the Community Rule, the War Scroll, the Pesher on Habakkuk, and The Rule of the Blessing.

All these are part of God's cannon then right?

What I said — and what still stands — is that Enoch was found preserved with the most revered Scriptures of ancient Israel. That doesn’t prove it’s canon, but it does prove it wasn’t fringe.

Isaiah, Genesis, Psalms… and Enoch — side by side. That alone should make you pause.

You listed other writings — sure. Some are wisdom texts, some community rules, some apocalyptic reflections. But only one of those was directly quoted in the New Testament and attributed to a named prophet — the seventh from Adam — by an apostle of Jesus Christ.

That’s not a small footnote. That’s divine validation. Jude didn’t say, “someone once wrote.” He said Enoch prophesied.

The real issue here isn’t what the Dead Sea Scrolls contain.
It’s whether we’re willing to let the Holy Spirit speak through the full witness of God — or whether we’re content to let post-Constantinian editors and political gatekeepers decide what God is “allowed” to say… three and a half centuries after Christ was crucified.

So again — Isaiah, Genesis, Psalms… and Enoch.
Not fan fiction. Not fringe. Just inconvenient truth, resurfaced.

Oops indeed.

 

[talons]

If so, that means God's Word cannot be trusted and should be tossed in the trash because it would be filled with lies if in fact Jesus Christ lacks the power and authority to control what went in to His canon

OK then, sounds like Jesus is powerless to control what goes in to His Book

It would be sinful behavior to reject God's canon

I would never claim the Lord did not have control over His canon.

Can I buy one of "His canon " ? Which one is it exactly ?