Limited atonement is a false gospel

[Ritajanice]

Have you asked the Spirit this question?

No I haven’t,Have you?...if he answered you....what did he testify with your spirit?

Done

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, elected by God. For a particular purpose.

Yes, those who have been given divine life, been born again, can see what the Spirit shows and hear what the Spirit says. A dead person can't see or hear anything.

The Spirit testifies with our “ spirit “ that we are Gods children.those are Gods words...therefore no confusion in them.

 

[One 2 question]

Being honest, I don’t understand a lot of what you post...because we understand differently..obviously.

Feel free to ask for clarification on anything I post.

 

[shepherdsword]

Atonement is meant for all. However, it is limited in respect that it only profits those who have faith.

 

[One 2 question]

Do you see @One 2 question how we are all on different levels of spiritual understanding?

Sure. That's why we can share what the Spirit gives us with one another. For the building up of the body.

 

[Ritajanice]

Limited Atonement is limited in that...only the Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.

Faith is a supernatural gift from God..as his word says.

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

1 Corinthians 12-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way

• John 6:29
  Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
  
• Romans 8:29
  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
  
• Romans 9:11
  (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
  
• Romans 9:15
  For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
  
• 1 Corinthians 10:13
  No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God isfaithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
  
• Ephesians 2:1
  And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
  
• James 1:17
  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
  
• Romans 2:4
  Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
  
• Romans 6:23
  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
  
  
• Romans 9:22-23
  What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
  
• Romans 5:1
  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
  
• Ephesians 2:4-5
  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
  
• Ephesians 1:5
  having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

 

[Ritajanice]

Sure. That's why we can share what the Spirit gives us with one another. For the building up of the body.

But, not all are building up the body..as we can see on this thread.

 

[Ritajanice]

Feel free to ask for clarification on anything I post.

I will...you can do the same with my posts.

 

[Ritajanice]

By the rules of Greek grammar, "that" in Ephesians 2:8-9 CANNOT refer to faith. Please, don't perpetuate that error.

In the word God says that faith is a gift from God...that we know by his Living testimony...so, Greek grammar has got nothing to do with the gift of Faith/ Born Again..it’s a Living gift from God and it comes from his Living testimony..
His Living testimony who indwells the heart of his child when= Spirit gives birth to spirit?...which means what?
So, no..no error,,as it appears you don’t know who Gods Living testimony is?

The Bible confirms that faith is a gift from God..it also confirms who Gods Living testimony is?

Do you actually understand supernatural faith?

How could my spirit know that it’s Born Again..by the written word or by the Living testimony of Gods Living Spirit?

You are under no authority to point out error..when you don’t even understand the testimony of Gods Living Spirit?

No one is under God’s authority on this thread to preach his truth...you are posting like everyone else.

Opinion/ belief and testimony.

 

[Runningman]

You I’m afraid haven’t proved that limited atonement is a false teaching...you have given your commentary on what “ you” and a few others want to believe that limited atonement is a false teaching..

Many commentaries on the internet who disagree with you...it can’t imo be proven either way..

There is scripture for limited atonement..there is also scripture against limited atonement...and I’m afraid, scripture can and does get misinterpreted / twisted , to say what they want it to say..by many on this very forum..

One member says, scripture is saying what they believe it to be saying..then along comes another member who counteracts what the other member is saying...then puts their understanding of scripture forward .....to say what they believe it to be saying....because they all believe what they believe..( for limited atonement/ against limited atonement) .therefore it must be true LOL.....so, it’s a merry go round..of those who believe in limited atonement and those who don’t believe in limited atonement...

Also ,just because the majority on threads don’t believe in limited atonement..doesn’t make it true...like everyone else..they give their own opinions ..

So there we have it.....

That’s true, but I believe people try to tell the truth as they know it, whether they be right or wrong, because the truth is worth fighting for. It’s also worth putting away wrong ideas if in our ventures we genuinely discover a misconception we previously had.

This isn’t a “my side versus your side” quest nor have I ever looked at it that way, but with something as important as the gospel its worth making sure that the truth as I know it gets a fair shake.

I don’t really see this as my opinion. With something as important as the gospel, if limited atonement were true, then the Bible should at least explain or describe limited atonement even once, but it doesn’t which would make the true gospel unknowable, contrary to the Bible specifically explaining what the gospel is, how to participate, and who it applies to.

 

[Ritajanice]

That’s true, but I believe people try to tell the truth as they know it, whether they be right or wrong, because the truth is worth fighting for. It’s also worth putting away wrong ideas if in our ventures we genuinely discover a misconception we previously had.

This isn’t a “my side versus your side” quest nor have I ever looked at it that way, but with something as important as the gospel its worth making sure that the truth as I know it gets a fair shake.

I don’t really see this as my opinion. With something as important as the gospel, if limited atonement were true, then the Bible should at least explain or describe limited atonement even once, but it doesn’t which would make the true gospel unknowable, contrary to the Bible specifically explaining what the gospel is, how to participate, and who it applies to.

That’s true, but I believe people try to tell the truth as they know it, whether they be right or wrong, because the truth is worth fighting for. It’s also worth putting away wrong ideas if in our ventures we genuinely discover a misconception we previously had.

Again , it depends on what you mean by truth..your truth of scripture or Brightfame truth of what he believes scripture to be saying.

This isn’t a “my side versus your side” quest nor have I ever looked at it that way, but with something as important as the gospel its worth making sure that the truth as I know it gets a fair shake

Again, according to you...Brightfame believes the same way as you.according to what he believes scripture to be saying...he believes limited atonement...you don’t believe in limited atonement.

.

I don’t really see this as my opinion. With something as important as the gospel, if limited atonement were true, then the Bible should at least explain or describe limited atonement even once, but it doesn’t which would make the true gospel unknowable, contrary to the Bible specifically explaining what the gospel is, how to participate, and who it applies to.

But it does..I’ve posted scripture supporting limited atonement, from other people’s commentaries...you do the same..you post scripture that proves in your opinion that there is no such thing.

Both sides are supported by scripture..that is my opinion by what I have read..

 

[Runningman]

God chose Judas Iscariot to fulfill Gods plan....Jesus also knew from day one that Judas would betray him...Judas was predestined to betray Jesus...God knows beginning to end.....he can see our hearts from beginning to end..

Predestined: In John 17:12, Jesus calls Judas “the son of destruction” and says he was “doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” This suggests that Judas was chosen for this role and had no real choice in the matter.

Free Will: In Matthew 26:24, Jesus says, “Woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” If Judas had no choice, why would Jesus pronounce woe upon him? Some argue that Judas acted out of his own greed and was not forced to betray Jesus.

But contrary to limited atonement, Judas wasn’t doomed from the get go. The prophecy is that Judas would commit apostasy with the result being he became doomed. In other words, Judas was initially saved and lost his salvation. Prophecy or not, Judas does not conform to the limited atonement model of salvation because an elect can’t lose their salvation status, but Judas did which is my main point.

 

[shepherdsword]

Limited Atonement is limited in that...only the Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.

Faith is a supernatural gift from God..as his word says.

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

1 Corinthians 12-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way

• John 6:29
  Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
• Romans 8:29
  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
• Romans 9:11
  (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
• Romans 9:15
  For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
• 1 Corinthians 10:13
  No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God isfaithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
• Ephesians 2:1
  And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
• James 1:17
  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
• Romans 2:4
  Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
• Romans 6:23
  For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
  
  
• Romans 9:22-23
  What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
• Romans 5:1
  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
• Ephesians 2:4-5
  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
• Ephesians 1:5
  having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

The only way to be born again is to believe.

Jn 3:3-16

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Context:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So yes, we must be born again and that takes faith...not some discombobulated gnostic pre-selection.

 

[Ritajanice]

But contrary to limited atonement, Judas wasn’t doomed from the get go. The prophecy is that Judas would commit apostasy with the result being he became doomed. In other words, Judas was initially saved and lost his salvation. Prophecy or not, Judas does not conform to the limited atonement model of salvation because an elect can’t lose their salvation status, but Judas did which is my main point.

You can’t prove that Judas was a believer...where does the Bible say that he was elect...he was chosen to be a disciple...doesn’t mean that he was Born Again.

He was chosen imo by God to full-fill Gods plan for salvation...that is my opinion..you have posted yours.

 

[Ritajanice]

The only way to be born again is to believe.

Jn 3:3-16

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Context:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So yes, we must be born again and that takes faith...not some discombobulated gnostic pre-selection.

The only way to be Born Of The Spirit is exactly how Jesus explains it to Nicodemas...nothing more needs to be added to scripture...you have added the rest. because that is how you understand..I don’t understand your way.

Plus we are Born Again by Gods Living Witness..not by scripture verses.

You missed these verses out...

John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Lambano]

Question: What is Evanescent Grace?

Answer: It is the Calvinist doctrine of Temporal Grace, in which God overcomes a non-elect person’s Total Depravity and Total Inability, by giving them an Effectual Grace or Irresistible Grace, but only temporarily until God later withdraws that grace.

Evanescent Grace​

This might explain the Judas question.

But if the doctrine of Arrogated Grace is true, no believer can ever have assurance. God could withdraw His grace at any time.

 

[Ritajanice]

God can never un- birth us from His Living Spirit as our spirit has been birthed into the Living Spirit Of God, by His Living Testimony...again, see how we all understand the word differently..

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Flesh gives birth to flesh...you can’t go back into your mothers womb..no more than my spirit can be un- birthed from the Living Spirit Of God...Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever..

My heart has been birthed and there is NO way that I can escape what I was predestined to receive...that is my belief..that is my truth...I don’t need to read scripture to know that my spirit is Born Again..

I was chosen and predestined to become a child of God...I also post what I believe the Spirit is prompting me to post..he uses me as his mouth piece...that is my belief...

 

[Lambano]

In the word God says that faith is a gift from God...

Stop right there. Greek grammar has EVERYTHING to do with what the word of God ACTUALLY SAYS. And that particular scripture DOES NOT SAY what you said it says.

 

[Ritajanice]

Stop right there. Greek grammar has EVERYTHING to do with what the word of God ACTUALLY SAYS. And that particular scripture DOES NOT SAY what you said it says.

Greek grammar does not testify with our spirit that we are Gods children ?

It has NOTHING to do with being Born Of The Spirit.

Greek grammar did not testify with my spirit...so, I disagree and NO I won’t stop right there, because it upsets you...address what I post?

Do you even understand what I post...because I never see you address what I post...if you don’t understand me, then just say?..
The Bible is not God...God is a Living Spirit...do you understand that?...

Spirit gives birth to spirit...how would I know that?...

 

[Lambano]

God can never un- birth us from His Living Spirit as our spirit has been birthed into the Living Spirit Of God, by His Living Testimony

"Can never" or "will never"?

"With man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26)