Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11

[marks]

A boldness for Christ ! This is what we all need in large doses , in my early Christian walk it just wasn't there for me sadly , it was all on me though not Jesus . I pray now that I can proclaim Christ to anyone at anytime , we need to be ready to do this . People need to see that light shining in our eyes as we speak to them .

What is it that makes our eyes to shine? Our countenance to be bright, so that others will see we are actually different? What do you think it is that does this?

Much love!

 

[talons]

What is it that makes our eyes to shine? Our countenance to be bright, so that others will see we are actually different? What do you think it is that does this?

Much love!

Yes indeed they should see the light from us Christians .

22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

What do you think it is that does this?

The light of life inside of us !

12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, it seems that you are trying to prove that "if you dont believe anymore" then you are not saved anymore.

However that is not the Gospel.

If they apostatize they choose to not be saved. Teaching they still are is false.

The simple fact is, the passage does not say what you claim. If fully lacks any wording that would indicate "a branch no longer in Me", or something like that. You've got the idea that this is what is true, and so you see it in the passage, except, it's not there, and you would benefit from understanding that.

It is the same as 2 Peter 1:8 when they stalled and stayed that way.

They are home with Him.

If they stop producing fruit, God kills them?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you remember Paul talking about a "thorn in his flesh " ?

2 Corinthians 12:7 Context​

4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Many believe it was a physical ailment like poor eyesight. But "thorn in the flesh" is an idiom like "pain in the neck."

There is a law of first usage and thorns have always meant evil people to buffet them. We also know that Paul always had conflict with Judaizers, which better fits "messengers of Satan."

Numbers 33:55

But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall be that those whom you let remain shall be irritants in your eyes and thorns in your sides, and they shall harass you in the land where you dwell.

Joshua 23:13

know for certain that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations from before you. But they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land which the Lord your God has given you.

Judges 2:3
Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ”

 

[Behold]

If they apostatize they choose to not be saved. Teaching they still are is false.

Being born again, does not end, because of anyones thinking or behavior that they manifest later.

So, when you teach that you can lose your salvation, you are denying the blood atonement, and are stating that you have more power to cause your relationship with God to end, then Jesus's eternal blood sacrifice has the power of eternal redemption.
So, that is a serious PRIDE issue, that is very common with Pentecostals - Charismatics as they are taught that "you can lose can lose your salvation" by their denomination.

However,

Its God "who is faithful to complete our salvation"......so, when you dont believe this, and your faith in Christ is actually not there... then you will teach that Jesus does not keep you saved........but you do, by your self effort to try to "abide'.
That is : LEGALISM, that is "SELF Righteousness".

If they stop producing fruit, God kills them?

When a person is not manifesting God's fruit as their lifestyle then that is because they are "in the flesh".
Being in the flesh is to enjoy carnality.

In some cases, they realize it, and repent, and in some cases, like DEMAS, they dont care... and God gives them Hebrews 12:6

 

[Grailhunter]

So, when you teach that you can lose your salvation, you are denying the blood atonement, and are stating that you have more power to cause your relationship with God to end

Thinking you can accept Christ and go on sinning as you wish and still go to Heaven is an insult to the Grace of Christ. But Satan would like Christians to believe it because it would serve him well. Christians in Hell and the ones that taught them this lie!

 

[Behold]

Thinking you can accept Christ and go on sinning as you wish and still go to Heaven is an insult to the Grace of Christ.

The "insult to Christ" is when a self saving self righteous relighious law keeping fanatic, shows up on a "christian forum" or in a church pulpit, and tries to prove that The Blood of Jesus, is only as good as their behaivor.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Concerning sin in believers I suggest all in the thread read the 7 letters in Revelation.
Jesus points out sin in believers and the remedy.

Then study the verses on "overcomer"

Paul said " you have not resisted to the point of shedding blood in your fight against sin."

 

[Grailhunter]

The "insult to Christ" is when a self saving self righteous relighious law keeping fanatic, shows up on a "christian forum" or in a church pulpit, and tries to prove that The Blood of Jesus, is only as good as their behaivor.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 1st John 3:6-10

Judgment Day does not occur on the day you are saved. On the other hand I am not saying that our salvation is easily lost. If we had to be perfect to keep our salvation Christ would have died for nothing. Christians should Be Good and Do Good the best they can. What would be the alternative? Heaven full of evil and sin?

 

[Behold]

Then study the verses on "overcomer"

All who are in Christ have "overcome the world" and have received forgiveness of all sin, for all time.

And what is more.........is that "the Law", that is the spiritual principle that defines sin and sinners, has been removed from its dominion so that it can never again define a CHRISTian, as a sinner.

 

[Behold]

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

Yes, that is a rewards banquet, its not a place where sinners are judged for sin... as in the Case of a CHRISTian, their sin has already been fully judged for all time against JESUS.

See THE CROSS, for the update on why a Christian is always forgiven..

work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12

Here is how i teach my students that verse, and it'll help you, if you are capable of learning.

"work out your salvation, in AWE and WONDER".......as the "fear" in the KJV verse, means....."awestruck, amazed,"..

Now, how do you "work out your Salvation"

A.) You realize that you have it........and that is why its called "YOUR" in the verse.......so, now having Eternal Salvation, you are to learn how to exist within it, according to RIGHT FAITH that is based on the Knowledge of God.
This "learning" or "working out" is to start as a babe in Christ, and end up as "the fullness of the stature of Christ" or as Paul teaches.."as many as be Perfect".

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

Do you confess sin?
Then i guess you have kept on sinning.

Now listen.

John is teaching that once we are "in Christ" we are delivered from the LAW that use to define the person as a sinner.
So, once the law is removed by Jesus's Sacrifice , then now being free from the Law, the born again can never be defined again, as a sinner.

Judgment Day does not occur on the day you are saved.

Judgement day against the sin of a Believer, happened the day they were born again., as Christ was judged in their place for all their sin, for eternity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, that is a rewards banquet, its not a place where sinners are judged for sin... as in the Case of a CHRISTian, their sin has already been fully judged for all time against JESUS.

Fully judged for all time the day you are saved. Sounds like a doctrine of Satan.

Here is how i teach my students that verse, and it'll help you, if you are capable of learning.

"work out your salvation, in AWE and WONDER".......as the "fear" in the KJV verse, means....."awestruck, amazed,"..

Now, how do you "work out your Salvation"

A.) You realize that you have it........and that is why its called "YOUR" in the verse.......so, now having Eternal Salvation, you are to learn how to exist within it, according to RIGHT FAITH that is based on the Knowledge of God.
This "learning" or "working out" is to start as a babe in Christ, and end up as "the fullness of the stature of Christ" or as Paul teaches.."as many as be Perfect".

That is probably how you can believe what you believe.....you just change the words in the scriptures as you go along.

Do you confess sin?
Then i guess you have kept on sinning.

Now listen.

John is teaching that once we are "in Christ" we are delivered from the LAW that use to define the person as a sinner.
So, once the law is removed by Jesus's Sacrifice , then now being free from the Law, the born again can never be defined again, as a sinner.

So what you are saying a guy can rape the mother and eat her kids and look forward to getting more in Heaven.
When you teach you must sound like a comedian.

I was watching the news yesterday where a preacher was condemning the victim and wanted sympathy for the killer. OSAS is a logic failure all the way around and those that teach it serves Satan.

Judgement day against the sin of a Believer, happened the day they were born again., as Christ was judged in their place for all their sin, for eternity.

 

[Behold]

Fully judged for all time the day you are saved. Sounds like a doctrine of Satan.

Jesus paid for my sins......>He was JUDGED on The Cross for them all.

If this has not happened to you, then this explains why you have no understanding of God's eternal Salvation, yet.

That is probably how you can believe what you believe.....you just change the words in the scriptures as you go along.

I only Teach Paul's Theology.

Google it.

So what you are saying a guy can rape the mother and eat her kids and look forward to getting more in Heaven.
When you teach you must sound like a comedian.

In saying that if you understood The Cross of Christ you would be able to read Romans 4:8, and 2 Corin 5:19, and not sit there in total confusion.

I was watching the news yesterday where a preacher was condemning the victim and wanted sympathy for the killer.

What makes you think that "preacher" is a "Christian". ???

As for me, if you kill your mother, and do it with a sane mind, you should be put to sleep, vs sitting in a prision, burnin up Taxpayer money to keep you well fed.

Listen, many on this forum are Religious but lost.
They could not explain "the Blood Atonment" or the "imputed righteousness of Christ" if i put a gun to their head.

What can they rant about?

1.) Law and Commandments
2.) Losing salvation
3.) Water Baptism
4.) Acts 2:38

OSAS is a logic failure all the way around and those that teach it serves Satan.

OSAS, is your obvious obsession, not mine.

You are a certified nut

To the hyper religious, real theology can't be discerned., and the Bible is locked.

 

[Grailhunter]

esus paid for my sins......>He was JUDGED on The Cross for them all.

I do not think that Christ was judged.

I only Teach Paul's Theology.

Christ not good enough for ya?

Ok Paul.....

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

Listen, many on this forum are Religious but lost.
They could not explain "the Blood Atonment" or the "imputed righteousness of Christ" if i put a gun to their head.

And your explaination is sin and evil in Heaven.....you are peaches.

My sound advice is to listen while you still have time.

Ya listen to you and sin all you want and still go to Heaven....And the devil does a dance to your beliefs.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So, that is a serious PRIDE issue, that is very common with Pentecostals - Charismatics as they are taught that "you can lose can lose your salvation" by their denomination.

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

I've given you warnings before about your provoking/reviling attitude and words, and you still haven't worked on this rotten fruit. Brother, if you don't stop, the next thing will be reporting you.

Scripture says you can lose your salvation, but you won't listen. The truth will set you free.

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[Behold]

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

Yes, this is the same principle that you find with the young Christinan in Corinthians who was fornicating with his Dad's new wife.

Paul had the church expel this young man for a time, and then Paul had them bring him back.

So, we see that a Christian who is willfully sinning, the sin of fornication, does not lose their Salvation.

I've given you warnings before about your provoking/reviling attitude and words, and you still haven't worked on this rotten fruit. Brother, if you don't stop, the next thing will be reporting you.

Rotten Fruit = is a person who is trying to sell the LIE on This Forum, that Salvation could be lost.

You are a Charismatic, and nearly all Charismatics have been falsely led to believe, that their Salvation can be lost.
This makes you a victim of your denomination.

So, you believed this lie, as most do, who belong to this type of denomination.

Scripture says you can lose your salvation, but you won't listen. The truth will set you free.

No one can stop being IN Christ, and Christ never leaves the Believer.
You can't stop being born again.

One day, if you learn to trust in Christ to keep you saved, you'll stop trying to do it for yourself, and that will be the day that you have understood the Blood Atonement.

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22

Im already eternally "Spared".

See """The Cross of Christ"""" for the reason why all believers are eternally spared from God's wrath, @1stCenturyLady .

Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Notice the verse says....."HIS Goodness".

So, we continue in HIS Goodness, by understanding that Jesus who saved us, keeps us saved..

You have not continued, so that verse is talking to you, and in fact you literally DENY that Jesus keeps His Bride forever.

 

[Hidden In Him]

3. Food for thought: Do you feel the advice to reinforce their faith with spiritual evidence could be skewed and turned into a law?

Not sure what you are asking.

Hey, Grailhunter! Thanks for the gracious post and sorry about the late response. Yesterday was busy.

I think all I was asking here was what you feel about those who say that teaching we need to do any good works at all is no longer relying on grace, and if they did that to what Peter saying, wouldn't if kinda undermine the whole point of his teaching.

A miracle life! I knew God when I was riding around in diapers on a tricycle and listening to my dad and mom and friends playing Bluegrass Gospels. The rest would sound like bragging. And why I say it is so important to raise your children as Christians and be a church going family.

I don't really count it as bragging when we are talking about what the Lord has done in us, through us, and for us, cuz we aren't the focus. I seek every day for Him to manifest Himself through me, because I think those are the best prayers. I could ask for Him to make me this or make me that, but the easiest thing is just, "Lord manifest Yourself through me today. You are already perfect, and I just need to let you manifest Yourself."

Great hearing from you. I hope you and your family are blessed, and have a great day today!
- H

 

[Hidden In Him]

The true Gospel is 100% commitment.
Selling out to Jesus.
If that brother gets a glimpse of this he will be set free, and no matter the trial, he will look up instead of into his self and circumstances.
The starting place of trials is calling on the name of Jesus.
But not in pleading or weakness.
Not even for help.
Call out his name in Authority and power.
Call out his name like a boss.
Call out his name in faith.

I love this. Lately I have found myself becoming trained in the ability to endure the darkness, weather the hardships, and as quickly as my mind can clear even in the toughest emotional situations begin taking inventory of all the good things He is doing in my life, which is similar to what you are talking about. But whereas it used to be, "Let me just run from this, go find some food and some entertainment, and just hibernate for as long as it takes to get over this." Now I... and pardon the French, but even as I'm bound up in fears, something clicks, and I say "Ok screw this. I'm not staying in my fears. I'm obeying Philippains 4:8, and I'm gonna find positives to meditate on, and I'm gonna change my mental and emotional state right now, not next week." It's a form of taking authority over yourself. It's not natural, it's a habit that is developed over time as you begin to walking in greater obedience, understanding spiritual warfare, and that we won't last long if we don't master thinking on that which is of good report and rejoicing, no matter what.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hey, Grailhunter! Thanks for the gracious post and sorry about the late response. Yesterday was busy.

I think all I was asking here was what you feel about those who say that teaching we need to do any good works at all is no longer relying on grace, and if they did that to what Peter saying, wouldn't if kinda undermine the whole point of his teaching.

I am careful with the word works because it confuses people. I usually only apply works with the adherence to the Mosaic Law.
Works in not Good Deeds. The motto of my ministry is Be Good and Do Good. Not that being good and doing good saves you, it is what saved Christians do. And I think that agrees with 2nd Peter 1:5-11

I don't really count it as bragging when we are talking about what the Lord has done in us, through us, and for us, cuz we aren't the focus. I seek every day for Him to manifest Himself through me, because I think those are the best prayers. I could ask for Him to make me this or make me that, but the easiest thing is just, "Lord manifest Yourself through me today. You are already perfect, and I just need to let you manifest Yourself."

Great hearing from you. I hope you and your family are blessed, and have a great day today!

I am not a preacher, I am a formally educated theologian and a speaker….Some call me an evangelist….maybe kinda. But what you describe of yourself is a person that walks with Christ everyday….and that is my best advice.
God bless you and yours.

 

[Hidden In Him]

A boldness for Christ ! This is what we all need in large doses , in my early Christian walk it just wasn't there for me sadly , it was all on me though not Jesus . I pray now that I can proclaim Christ to anyone at anytime , we need to be ready to do this . People need to see that light shining in our eyes as we speak to them .

I am always reminded of the scripture that says "If He is for us, who can be against us?" If He has clothed us in His grace and blessings, what does it truly matter what anyone else's opinion is? Surely we wouldn't amount to anything in ourselves anyway, but when He manifests His love towards us, it eliminates all opposition, even our own.

Caring for others , I have tried to follow his examples . I watched my Dad who was a nominal Christian , he did not quote the Bible or talk about God much at all but It was in the way he cared about other people if they were hurting in their lives or a bad situation .
My Dad did repair work in peoples homes and once upon making a repair and collecting a check for the repair , upon getting in the car he handed the check to my brother who was with him and told him to put the check in the glovebox of the van and we would cash it IF needed , it was never needed . My Dad saw the problems the family was having so it was his way of helping them out without them feeling like they had been given charity .

I think we sometimes have no idea the legacy we leave by the lives we lead. We have no idea who is watching, and the effect we are having. My wife's parents were like this as well, and to this day, I admire how they raised her. Just hearing the stories of how he led their family brings me joy. Shame I never got to spend much time with him in life. He and I would have really liked each other.

Empathy for what others are going through

Glorious. I have developed more in this too. This again reminds me of my wife a good bit. Her Christianity is about seeing love and happiness brought into other people's lives.

I want people to see Christ in my actions in this world

Me as well. When it comes to me, my personality gravitates towards power, so I want them to see Him manifest supernaturally on their behalf, proving Himself that He is a God, and that He can meet any need, surmount any obstacle, and defeat any enemy in their lives on their behalf. To me that is the manifestation of His Love I relate to most, but we all manifest Him in different ways to different people.

I covet your prayers for me

Absolutely. Need to pray some today, and you will definitely be on that list.