All Israel will be saved!

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Spiritual Israelite

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I'm, of course, referring to Romans 11:26. Some people don't realize that the context of Romans 11 is established back in Romans 9. There is an overarching narrative that Paul taught starting at the beginning of Romans 9 through the end of Romans 11. In Romans 9, Paul establishes the fact that salvation is not based on one's nationality and that only a remnant of national Israel shall be saved rather than all of national Israel.

We can see that he taught that being a child of God and the spiritual seed of Abraham had nothing to do with being a physical descendant of Israel and of Abraham here...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What Paul said in verse 6 is pretty straightforward. He spoke of two separate Israels and indicated that not all who are physically descended from the nation of Israel and physically descended from Abraham are part of Spiritual Israel and are Abraham's spiritual children/descendants.

Paul clarified that being part of spiritual Israel and being a spiritual child/descendant of Abraham was by way of being reckoned or called through Isaac, being a child of God and being a child of the promise. What does it mean to be reckoned through Isaac and to be a child of the promise and who does that apply to? We can see that by looking at other scripture that Paul wrote such as Galatians 4:21-28.

Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: “Be glad, barren woman,you who never bore a child; shout for joy and cry aloud, you who were never in labor; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

To save space I didn't quote the whole passage, but you can read it for yourself and see that Paul was speaking in terms of two covenants here with one related to earthly Jerusalem and one related to heavenly Jerusalem. The thing to notice here is that Paul indicated that all believers are children of promise like Isaac because of having the heavenly Jerusalem as our spiritual mother rather than earthly Jerusalem, and that's what Paul is talking about in Romans 9:7-8 when explaining who they are exactly that are part of spiritual Israel. Those who are part of spiritual Israel are everyone who are the children of the promise like Isaac. Which is all believers because Paul was speaking to both Jew and Gentile believers in that passage.

Again, Paul indicated in Romans 9:6-8 that spiritual Israel consists of those who are children of the promise like Isaac and we can see what that means from Galatians 4:21-28. Paul also indicated that it is the children of God who are part of spiritual Israel, so determining who are the children of God can give us even more insight into who are in the Israel of which not all who descend from the nation of Israel are part.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Okay, so now we can see that the children of God are those who belong to Christ and they are the ones who are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. That lines up with Romans 9:6-8 saying that those who are part of spiritual Israel are the children of God and the children of the promise who are counted as Abraham's offspring/seed.

So, the Israel of which all are saved and all will be saved is Spiritual Israel which does not include all of those who physically descend from national Israel and Abraham, but instead includes those from national Israel and from the Gentile nations who are the children of God by faith in Jesus since they are the ones who are the children of God and of the promise and are regarded as Abraham's spiritual seed.

Okay, so that all needs to be kept in mind as you continue reading the rest of Romans 9 and Romans 10 and into Romans 11. Paul continues the theme of showing that salvation is not dependent on one's nationality through the rest of Romans 9 and in Romans 10 and then into Romans 11.

Romans 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26 and, "In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called children of the living God.’” 27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

See here how Paul talks about not just the Jews being called to salvation, but also the Gentiles and that those who were not God's people in the past would be called children of the living God just as Gentiles, who were formerly "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-13) are now God's people (Gentile believers, obviously). And Paul points out that only a remnant of Israelites will be saved. Why would Paul say that a remnant of Israelites (not all Israelites) would be saved here in Romans 9:27, but then say that they will all be saved in Romans 11:26? That is contradictory and Paul wouldn't contradict himself.

Going from Romans 9 into Romans 10, Paul does not change the topic and reiterates the fact that one's nationality has nothing to do with salvation as it is available to both Jews and Gentiles alike with no difference between them.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile as it relates to salvation, so why would God ensure the salvation of every person in Israel without also doing that in the Gentile nations? By doing that it would suggest that there is a difference between Jew and Gentile in salvation, but that contradicts what Paul taught and contradicts the fact that God is not a respecter of persons (doesn't show favoritism because of things like one's nationality).

Then it moves from Romans 10 to Romans 11 where Paul proves that God did not cast away and reject the Israelites He foreknew, of which Paul himself was one, as evidenced by the fact that there was a remnant of elect believers in his day. The rest who didn't believe were temporarily blinded for the purpose of bringing salvation to the Gentiles so that those blinded Israelite unbelievers would be provoked to jealousy by the salvation of the Gentiles which would lead to the salvation of some of them, as Paul wrote about in Romans 11:11-14. You can read about everything I'm saying here in Romans 11:1-14.

After Romans 11:14, Paul creates an analogy of the things that he had been talking about up to that point since the beginning of Romans 9 by referring to a natural olive tree from which some of the natural branches, representing Israelite unbelievers, were cut off because of their unbelief. The natural branches that were not cut off stayed in the natural olive tree (the remnant of believers). Then Paul talked about wild branches from a wild olive tree being grafted in with the natural branches on the natural olive tree and that represents Gentile believers being saved by faith. And Paul talked about the natural branches that were cut off having the opportunity to be grafted in again, which refers to those who he said had been blinded, but he hoped to lead to salvation by way of provoking them to jealousy because of the salvation of the Gentiles (Romans 11:11-14).

So, that process of Israel being blinded in part (some being blinded and some not) with the hope of leading those who were blinded to salvation by being provoked to jealousy by the salvation of the Gentiles would continue until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Which leads us to this...

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

Now, when you read Romans 11:26 you can't forget that Paul already taught that only a remnant of national Israel would be saved, so does it make sense that he would contradict himself and then say that all national Israel will be saved? Of course not. You also can't forget that he had already spoke of another Israel consisting of the children of God and children of the promise who are regarded as the spiritual seed of Abraham. It's that Israel, which many of us call Spiritual Israel, of which all are and all will be saved. You can't interpret Romans 11:26 without taking into account the context that Paul had established in his narrative starting in Romans 9.
 

WPM

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I'm, of course, referring to Romans 11:26. Some people don't realize that the context of Romans 11 is established back in Romans 9. There is an overarching narrative that Paul taught starting at the beginning of Romans 9 through the end of Romans 11. In Romans 9, Paul establishes the fact that salvation is not based on one's nationality and that only a remnant of national Israel shall be saved rather than all of national Israel.

We can see that he taught that being a child of God and the spiritual seed of Abraham had nothing to do with being a physical descendant of Israel and of Abraham here...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What Paul said in verse 6 is pretty straightforward. He spoke of two separate Israels and indicated that not all who are physically descended from the nation of Israel and physically descended from Abraham are part of Spiritual Israel and are Abraham's spiritual children/descendants.

Paul clarified that being part of spiritual Israel and being a spiritual child/descendant of Abraham was by way of being reckoned or called through Isaac, being a child of God and being a child of the promise. What does it mean to be reckoned through Isaac and to be a child of the promise and who does that apply to? We can see that by looking at other scripture that Paul wrote such as Galatians 4:21-28.

Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: “Be glad, barren woman,you who never bore a child; shout for joy and cry aloud, you who were never in labor; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

To save space I didn't quote the whole passage, but you can read it for yourself and see that Paul was speaking in terms of two covenants here with one related to earthly Jerusalem and one related to heavenly Jerusalem. The thing to notice here is that Paul indicated that all believers are children of promise like Isaac because of having the heavenly Jerusalem as our spiritual mother rather than earthly Jerusalem, and that's what Paul is talking about in Romans 9:7-8 when explaining who they are exactly that are part of spiritual Israel. Those who are part of spiritual Israel are everyone who are the children of the promise like Isaac. Which is all believers because Paul was speaking to both Jew and Gentile believers in that passage.

Again, Paul indicated in Romans 9:6-8 that spiritual Israel consists of those who are children of the promise like Isaac and we can see what that means from Galatians 4:21-28. Paul also indicated that it is the children of God who are part of spiritual Israel, so determining who are the children of God can give us even more insight into who are in the Israel of which not all who descend from the nation of Israel are part.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Okay, so now we can see that the children of God are those who belong to Christ and they are the ones who are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. That lines up with Romans 9:6-8 saying that those who are part of spiritual Israel are the children of God and the children of the promise who are counted as Abraham's offspring/seed.

So, the Israel of which all are saved and all will be saved is Spiritual Israel which does not include all of those who physically descend from national Israel and Abraham, but instead includes those from national Israel and from the Gentile nations who are the children of God by faith in Jesus since they are the ones who are the children of God and of the promise and are regarded as Abraham's spiritual seed.

Okay, so that all needs to be kept in mind as you continue reading the rest of Romans 9 and Romans 10 and into Romans 11. Paul continues the theme of showing that salvation is not dependent on one's nationality through the rest of Romans 9 and in Romans 10 and then into Romans 11.

Romans 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26 and, "In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called children of the living God.’” 27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

See here how Paul talks about not just the Jews being called to salvation, but also the Gentiles and that those who were not God's people in the past would be called children of the living God just as Gentiles, who were formerly "without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-13) are now God's people (Gentile believers, obviously). And Paul points out that only a remnant of Israelites will be saved. Why would Paul say that a remnant of Israelites (not all Israelites) would be saved here in Romans 9:27, but then say that they will all be saved in Romans 11:26? That is contradictory and Paul wouldn't contradict himself.

Going from Romans 9 into Romans 10, Paul does not change the topic and reiterates the fact that one's nationality has nothing to do with salvation as it is available to both Jews and Gentiles alike with no difference between them.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile as it relates to salvation, so why would God ensure the salvation of every person in Israel without also doing that in the Gentile nations? By doing that it would suggest that there is a difference between Jew and Gentile in salvation, but that contradicts what Paul taught and contradicts the fact that God is not a respecter of persons (doesn't show favoritism because of things like one's nationality).
  • To arrive at the ‘corporate position’ one has to totally ignore Paul’s overriding message of two types of Israeli in Romans 9–11 (and in the whole book of Romans). Throughout, he is constantly differentiating between Israelis that are blind and Israelis that are elect.
  • One also has to ignore the whole context and setting of Paul’s comments “all Israel shall be saved.” He uses the phrase immediately after demonstrating that the elect Israeli good olive only holds those Jews that are of the household of “faith.”
  • As Paul expands his argument on the salvation of his own kinsmen, and tells us that all Israel shall be saved, he does it within the vital context of a faithful believing remnant of Israelis. Many fail to see that Paul has already established that the believing element within the overall physical nation of Israel is “a remnant.”
  • Some also seem to overlook Paul’s supporting evidence from the Old Testament Scripture (in Isaiah 59:20) that shows that the people in view are a spiritual segment of the overall whole who put their faith in Christ and repent of their sin.
 

Truth7t7

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I'm, of course, referring to Romans 11:26. Some people don't realize that the context of Romans 11 is established back in Romans 9. There is an overarching narrative that Paul taught starting at the beginning of Romans 9 through the end of Romans 11. In Romans 9, Paul establishes the fact that salvation is not based on one's nationality and that only a remnant of national Israel shall be saved rather than all of national Israel.
When the last name is sealed in the book of life then "All Israel Will Be Saved" the elect "Church" is the (Israel Of God)
 

WPM

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I'm, of course, referring to Romans 11:26. Some people don't realize that the context of Romans 11 is established back in Romans 9. There is an overarching narrative that Paul taught starting at the beginning of Romans 9 through the end of Romans 11. In Romans 9, Paul establishes the fact that salvation is not based on one's nationality and that only a remnant of national Israel shall be saved rather than all of national Israel.
In the light of the introduction of the new covenant, and within a New Testament context, Paul takes time to examine the whole dynamic between national Israel and God’s righteous remnant. Romans 11:25-29 tells us: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”

There are many inconsistencies in the dispensationalist hermeneutical system. While they passionately insist that the phrase “all Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26) must relate to the whole nation of national Israel en-masse at a future time, they conveniently divert around a similar statement relating to the Gentiles, which says, “the fulness of the Gentiles” as having no all-inclusive meaning. That is because that doesn't fit their theology and such a wholesale demand would be ridiculous and render them universalists.

This is a passage above that has confused many Christians over the years. The reason for this seems to revolve around the phrase “all Israel shall be saved.” There are many that deduce corporate salvation for natural Israel from this. But is Paul contradicting himself in his Romans 9-11 discourse? In one breath in Romans 9:27 he is saying “a remnant shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative), in the next, in Romans 11:26, he is saying “all Israel shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative).

Let us be absolutely assured: Paul is definitely not opposing himself, neither is the Holy Spirit, who inspired him to pen this, confused. He is in no way teaching corporate salvation in Romans 11:25-29, as some would suggest, or else he would be reversing everything he has just taught in the preceding verses and chapters of this book (and his other Epistles) in regard to an elect remnant. Salvation was never secured on the grounds of race; it was always by grace through faith. Moreover, the Gospel opportunity in the New Testament is always shown to be open to all nationalities equally; this includes natural Israel.

Romans 9:6-13 explains how God’s people and the seed of promise are not a natural but a spiritual seed. In his thesis on the promised seed, we find Jacob and us the believing Gentiles. He asserts: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

The whole of Paul’s teaching in this New Testament passage is establishing who “the children of God” really were/are. We see that Abraham had a natural lineage and also a spiritual lineage. Significantly, it was only the spiritual seed that carried any spiritual credentials. Paul distinguished here between biological Israel and faithful Israel. He shows that these are two different diverse peoples. In doing this he is attempting to illustrate the impotence of the natural and the potency of the spiritual.

Just because they belonged to Israel (or the natural seed of Abraham) did not signify that they were God’s chosen people. He shows how “the children of the flesh” are not “the children of God;” it is rather “the children of the promise” – faithful believing Israel. How can Dispensationalists get around this? No one should miss the distinction between the true spiritual seed of Abraham and the mere natural seed. Plainly: “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children” (Romans 9:6). Paul demonstrates that it is “the children of the promise” that “are counted for the seed.” This spiritual company are the ones that really matter.
 
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Zao is life

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I'm, of course, referring to Romans 11:26. Some people don't realize that the context of Romans 11 is established back in Romans 9. There is an overarching narrative that Paul taught starting at the beginning of Romans 9 through the end of Romans 11. In Romans 9, Paul establishes the fact that salvation is not based on one's nationality and that only a remnant of national Israel shall be saved rather than all of national Israel.

We can see that he taught that being a child of God and the spiritual seed of Abraham had nothing to do with being a physical descendant of Israel and of Abraham here...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

I agree. Peter and Paul both taught us that together, the Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ, are the living "stones" that are "God's Tabernacle" - because they are indwelt by His Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5); and Paul stated that in Christ there is neither Jew, nor Gentile. (Galatians 3:28).

Therefore logic says that the church = Israel = the church, and - don't be fooled - it's replacing the Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ (the church) with another Israel that is the real "Replacement Theology".

Hardening happened to part of Israel because of the reaction of the Jews to their Messiah (Jesus). Paul said that as concerning the gospel, they (the unbelieving part of Israel) are enemies - and this has been to the Gentiles' benefit because "the fullness" of the Gentiles is now coming in (Romans 11:28); but as touching the election, they (the believing part) are beloved for the fathers’ sakes, for the free gifts and calling of God are without repentance (therefore they were not broken off because of the cutting off of the majority).

"As it is written", Paul wrote, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins."

(It's the New Covenant in Christ's blood being spoken about).

Paul wrote that any unbelieving Jew who does not continue to abide in unbelief, shall also be grafted in, saying that just as those who are Gentiles in the flesh and once disbelieved God (but now believe God) have been shown mercy through the unbelief of the unbelieving part of Israel,

so also unbelieving Jews, if they abide not still in unbelief, may also obtain mercy - through the same mercy given the Gentiles who once disbelieved God but now believe God.

Therefore it's clear that God has allowed all (Jews and Gentiles) who have disbelieved God to be shut up in unbelief (showing no favoritism), so that He might show mercy to all who believe (it is of God's mercy).

So just as Paul wrote in Romans 11:26, all of the believing part of Israel (including believing Gentiles) will be saved.

Just as it is written in Jeremiah:

"Only if the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out will I cast off ALL the seed of Israel (believers and unbelievers alike) for all that they have done, says the LORD." (Jeremiah 31:37).

God did not cut off ALL the seed of Israel, as Paul said in Romans 11 - there was a remnant who were not cut off.

It's been the ongoing status quo for Israel since Christ died and rose again. The Deliverer who took away ungodliness from Jacob did so nearly 2,000 years ago - and that's the key to the correct interpretation of this passage.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I agree.​
Let us celebrate then, because, honestly, I'm sick and tired of disagreeing with you all the time.

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Peter and Paul both taught us that together, the Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ, are the living "stones" that are "God's Tabernacle" - because they are indwelt by His Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5); and Paul stated that in Christ there is neither Jew, nor Gentile. (Galatians 3:28).

Therefore logic says that the church = Israel = the church, and - don't be fooled - it's replacing the Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ (the church) with another Israel that is the real "Replacement Theology".​
Agree. They are the true replacement theologists. In our view, no one is replaced. The only thing that was replaced was the old covenant by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7, Hebrews 10:9-10).

Hardening happened to part of Israel because of the reaction of the Jews to their Messiah (Jesus). Paul said that as concerning the gospel, they (the unbelieving part of Israel) are enemies - and this has been to the Gentiles' benefit because "the fullness" of the Gentiles is now coming in (Romans 11:28); but as touching the election, they (the believing part) are beloved for the fathers’ sakes, for the free gifts and calling of God are without repentance (therefore they were not broken off because of the cutting off of the majority).
Right.


"As it is written", Paul wrote, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins."

(It's the New Covenant in Christ's blood being spoken about).​
Right. He was not making a new prophecy about the future there, he was referring to the fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 59:20-21). There is no other covenant by which sins are taken away besides the new covenant that was put into effect by the blood of Christ.


Paul wrote that any unbelieving Jew who does not continue to abide in unbelief, shall also be grafted in, saying that just as those who are Gentiles in the flesh and once disbelieved God (but now believe God) have been shown mercy through the unbelief of the unbelieving part of Israel,

so also unbelieving Jews, if they abide not still in unbelief, may also obtain mercy - through the same mercy given the Gentiles who once disbelieved God but now believe God.​
Right. Paul was saying that any unbelieving Jew who was cut off in his day could be grafted back in by faith which is why he said in relation to those who were blinded and cut off "inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them" (Romans 11:13-14).

Therefore it's clear that God has allowed all (Jews and Gentiles) who have disbelieved God to be shut up in unbelief (showing no favoritism), so that He might show mercy to all who believe (it is of God's mercy).

So just as Paul wrote in Romans 11:26, all of the believing part of Israel (including believing Gentiles) will be saved.

Just as it is written in Jeremiah:

"Only if the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out will I cast off ALL the seed of Israel (believers and unbelievers alike) for all that they have done, says the LORD." (Jeremiah 31:37).

God did not cut off ALL the seed of Israel, as Paul said in Romans 11 - there was a remnant who were not cut off.

It's been the ongoing status quo for Israel since Christ died and rose again. The Deliverer who took away ungodliness from Jacob did so nearly 2,000 years ago - and that's the key to the correct interpretation of this passage.
Agree completely. Strange how we can completely agree on this, but completely disagree on other things. It is what it is. Let's just enjoy the fact that we at least agree about this.
 
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Keraz

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It is nice to see a general agreement on who is the true Israel of God. ONLY His faithful believers, from every tribe, race, nation and language.

Now; lets get a consensus on what is the destiny of all those people of God; His chosen ones: 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
Actually, Revelation 5:10 plainly states it; and they shall reign on earth.
But a lot must happen before His Christian peoples will achieve that goal, which will happen during the Millennium. Much refinement and testing is Prophesied to come before the glorious Return of King Jesus.
Do you know what it will be and how you can prepare for it all?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It is nice to see a general agreement on who is the true Israel of God. ONLY His faithful believers, from every tribe, race, nation and language.
Right. Sure beats disagreeing all the time, doesn't it.

Now; lets get a consensus on what is the destiny of all those people of God; His chosen ones: 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
Actually, Revelation 5:10 plainly states it; and they shall reign on earth.
You just couldn't be satisfied with agreeing on who the Israel of God is. You know we Amills will never agree with your understanding of this.

Look at those passages you referenced closely.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign[a] on the earth.

Note [a]: Some manuscripts have "they reign".

Notice here that it says we ARE a royal priesthood and that Jesus has MADE us to be a kingdom and priests. That means we ARE a royal priesthood in Christ's kingdom NOW. Where are we located? On earth. So, we reign on earth NOW. And we will for eternity, not just for a thousand years.

But a lot must happen before His Christian peoples will achieve that goal, which will happen during the Millennium.
No, it will not happen during a future Millennium.

Much refinement and testing is Prophesied to come before the glorious Return of King Jesus.
Do you know what it will be and how you can prepare for it all?
Yes, I do. Scripture speaks of times of testing in relation to persecution, spiritual deception and increased wickedness that occur before Christ returns. Paul told us how to prepare for that.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
 
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Keraz

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You just couldn't be satisfied with agreeing on who the Israel of God is. You know we Amills will never agree with your understanding of this.
You are just so glaringly, obviously wrong about we Christians reigning now. A sad loss of grip on reality.

AMill is a crock and has to reject historical facts as well as Biblical truths. Belief in AMill requires a huge alternative system, which practically has to rewrite the Bible. It also leaves people in the dark about what the Lord has actually planned.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are just so glaringly, obviously wrong about we Christians reigning now. A sad loss of grip on reality.
I could not possibly care less what you think. You have done absolutely NOTHING to show otherwise. NOTHING. Go away.

AMill is a crock and has to reject historical facts as well as Biblical truths.
Premill is a crock. It denies clear scripture like Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23, John 5:28-29, Matthew 25:31-46 and 2 Peter 3:10-12. Go away, pest.

Belief in AMill requires a huge alternative system, which practically has to rewrite the Bible. It also leaves people in the dark about what the Lord has actually planned.
Your comments mean NOTHING. Back them up with scripture or go away.
 

Keraz

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Back them up with scripture or go away.
The only 'backing up' with scripture, I have seen from AMills, is deletion and ignoring of plainly stated verses which say there will be a thousand years after Jesus Returns.

Our Hope and our Destiny:
The Prophetic Word tells us how the Lord will save and protect His people during His terrible Day of wrath, the soon to happen Sixth Seal punishment of the ungodly peoples and the reset of our civilization.
Then those who kept strong in their faith will be gathered and will migrate into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26, are some of the best prophesies about this.

We Christians are the Lord's people, His chosen; John 15:18, 1 Peter 2:8-10, and we are the people; nation, who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43.
We will, in the holy Land be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Acts 13:47, Ezekiel 39:27
Basically there is no need for anyone, other than the 2 Witnesses to go to heaven, Revelation 11:12, and they do not stay there, as Jesus Returns just then and they are resurrected along with all the rest of the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4

The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. We are made to live on earth, God has angels in heaven.

Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up after the Millennium and only then will all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore heaven will be on the new earth. Revelation 21:1-4
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The only 'backing up' with scripture, I have seen from AMills, is deletion and ignoring of plainly stated verses which say there will be a thousand years after Jesus Returns.
Well, you are blind, so how can you see otherwise?

How can there be a thousand years of mortals living on the earth after He returns when the earth will be burned with fire when He returns?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Regarding this same event that occurs when Jesus returns, Paul said of those in spiritual darkness that "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3). But, Blind Man Keraz says "No, they shall escape! Peter and Paul did not know what they were talking about and did not understand the Old Testament like I do!".
 
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Keraz

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Well, you are blind, so how can you see otherwise?

How can there be a thousand years of mortals living on the earth after He returns when the earth will be burned with fire when He returns?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Regarding this same event that occurs when Jesus returns, Paul said of those in spiritual darkness that "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3). But, Blind Man Keraz says "No, they shall escape! Peter and Paul did not know what they were talking about and did not understand the Old Testament like I do!".
2 Peter 3:10, refers to what will happen AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:9 You fail to see how 2 Peter 3, is a chapter describing a sequence of events.
You are proved wrong by the fact that fire is never said to be how Jesus will destroy His enemies at Armageddon. Rev 19:15

Spare us your rude and foolish personal comments.
 

Jay Ross

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Hello

AS I have pointed out many times, God will begin drawing to Himself after these two things happen.

  1. When the third and fourth age of the visitation of the Israelite Fathers' iniquities, of their continual idolatrous worship during the first two ages of the existence of the Nation of Israel, upon their children and the children's children draws towards the completion of the fourth age of Israel, then God will begin drawing the Israelites to Himself and will plant them in His fertile field and will teach them about the theology of His religious requirements, where they are scattered throughout the whole earth.
  2. When the completion of the 2,300 years of the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earth host, as influenced by the Little Horn and executed by the armies that he has been given/allowed, then after that all of Israel will be saved as Paul prophesied in Romans 11:25b-26 as foretold by the Prophets in Ezekiel 34:11-16 and 36:22-38

Now as foretold in Deuteronomy 1:8b, Israel will not be given the whole earth until the final judgement of all of the nations of the earth has occurred and the last descendant generation of Israel has been born. God's Promise, was originally made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and is first recorded in Genesis 12:7 and 15:7 as an inheritance of the whole earth for Abraham and his descendants. This same covenantal promise was also given to Isaac and Jacob.

Sadly, Keraz's understanding of how God will achieve this is not biblically sound. Neither is Spiritual Israelite's understanding sound, as to how the end times will play out.

Shalom