You shouldn't put words into my mouth. I don't appreciate being appropriated as support for views with which I do not agree. I'd appreciate if you would edit your post to leave me out of it.
Much love!
Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11
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Much love!
God's work in us is not so limited as you present.
Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
So then even if we are out of the way, God doesn't leave us, He corrects us.
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Then how do we "stall" if not us stop staying in Christ? If we stay abiding in Christ there is no stalling.
I'll edit your name out of it. But I did agree with you on what you said.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I've been chastened while abiding in Christ. Chastening doesn't have anything to do with abiding. Just the opposite.
Define "in Christ", so I can answer your question. There is one "in Christ" that I'm aware of, that is being baptised into Christ, to share in His death and burial and resurrection.
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Romans 6:3-6 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 8:1-2 KJV
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 12:5 KJV
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
We are baptized into Jesus Christ, and afterward we are "in Christ".
Are you suggesting we have control over this state? My view is that we don't have power to put ourselves in or out of Christ, that is for God alone to do by His Spirit. He invites us to come, and promises to never cast out, and promises to take care of us as needed, and promises that He will never leave us nor forsake us.
So then were is this "moving in and out of Christ"? I don't see that in the Bible.
Unless you mean something diffenent than referring to our baptism into Christ.
Much love!
It's God's safety net for His children. God will chasten us as needed. Which means, if you are headed away from Him, He will do things in your life to get you back to drawing near to Him.
Again, you'll need to define what you mean by abiding in Christ, because it doesn't seem you are using that term in a Scriptural way. Abide means to remain, it doesn't contain the idea of moving in and out. That brings in the question of how many times can you be born again? I say once, and it's forever. Just like you have no control over being born the child of your parents, which you will always be, you have no control over being born the child of God, something that you will also remain.
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Here are the two types of sins. Mortal 1 John 3, and Venial John 15:1-4. Both require abiding or staying in Christ and Him abiding in us.
1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
John 15:1-4
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I agree that we don't move in and out as some teach. If we ever go out it is for good called apostasy.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that God might fail to chasten you, or that His chastening might not be effective? So that you would be allowed to "take yourself out of Christ"? That would be in direct conflict with the passage I posted from Hebrews.
Much love!
We believe in Jesus, and we love others, which are characteristic to those who abide in Him. Just the same, how do we know we abide in Him? Because He's given us the Holy Spirit, Who also is the seal of our redemption.
There is nothing in this passage that speaks of about ceasing to remain in Jesus.
Same thing here, nothing is said about someone "abiding in the vine" and then no longer abiding, that is, remaining. Living there, is the idea, remaining.
Much love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
How does a person who is born again "stall" within their discipleship.?
James explains this as "dead faith".
So, he then teaches some born again Christians who have it......what to do about it.
Like this..
James teaches those with "dead faith.......... = "I'll show you my FAITH, by my WORKS"...
See, this is simply a backslider......its a person who has lost their passion for the things of God., and when that happens, you might find them on Forums, doing nothing but arguing their opinions, while in real life.......in their daily life, they have not done anything for anyone, in quite a while........no "works'......... "dead faith".
So, James is telling these who are treading water, and who are stuck in reverse....( spending too much time watching Netflix) and too much time "texting"..., and so forth, to "get busy doing GOOD"., as we show God's love not by talking about it, but by doing it for others.
I'm not sure which translation you are quoting from.
I'd like to call attention to the part, "make your calling and election sure" (KJV). I know there is a difference in opinion among translators. The Greek word used (translated as make sure, or, make certain) is "to make stable, or firm".
Young's Literal Translation reads:
2 Peter 1:10 YLT
wherefore, the rather, brethren, be diligent to make stedfast your calling and choice, for these things doing, ye may never stumble,
I think the idea is that in doing these things, we aren't wavering over our status with God.
Much love!
This could describe me exactly!
In the fruit of the Spirit this love and gentleness is our heartfelt emotion. He's been teaching me more and more about how we just switch off the flesh as it rises to gain advantage. It took me so long to understand this! The old ways are so deeply entrenched.
In the Lord's Prayer, there is the part, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. And why would God lead us into enticements to sin? He doesn't do that. He leads us into testing, and if we aren't willing to do it His way, that's the enticement to sin. He intends for us to resist all other urges, and wait on Him alone. God leads us into contrary circumstances so that we have a difficult situation with which to exercise our faith to avoid the evils we've been prone to.
So back to the prayer . . . "lead me not into the testings that I have to struggle through, sometimes over and over and over, instead, just reach into me and fix me where I'm broken, not though trials, but just deliver me from the evil!"
Much love!
As I understand a "dead faith" from James, he's speaking of a belief that doesn't bring conversion, only being an acknowledgement of fact, not the embrace of the One Who is Truth, resulting in a new man.
I'm thinking the term would be "shipwrecked faith", it's there, but it's broken, and not going anywhere, because someone filled them with false ideas that messed them up.
1 Timothy 1:18-20 YLT
18) This charge I commit to thee, child Timotheus, according to the prophesies that went before upon thee, that thou mayest war in them the good warfare,
19) having faith and a good conscience, which certain having thrust away, concerning the faith did make shipwreck,
20) of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I did deliver to the Adversary, that they might be instructed not to speak evil.
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
We find that in the John 15 passage.
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
I'm not actually finding this in that passage. Where is the part about a branch that is remaining in Jesus, and then no longer is?
Even as the Father carries away the branches that don't bear fruit, nowhere is it written they cease to remain in Christ.
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
It's possible among preachers. It can happen when they are seduced by a woman, or dabble in pornography until it has such a hold on them they act on it. I know of one pastor that became a rapist.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The words "in Him"I enlarged and highlighted is the example. When Jesus takes that person who at one time was in Him but no longer are producing fruit, they are cast into the fire.
Here is another well known passage.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
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