What about Satan?

[Behold]

We were talking about Her title "Co-redeemer" and then you changed the subject when I said the following:

 

[Nancy]

We were talking about Her title "Co-redeemer" and then you changed the subject when I said the following:

"And that is one of the reasons that make her a CO-redeemer. Why do we call fellow employees CO-workers? Because we work WITH them to accomplish a task. Mary worked with Her Son to bring help accomplish the redemption to mankind." Can you reasonably say that isn't so??

Answer that before we move on to why She was without sin.

Well then shouldn't His Apostles all be co-redeemers?? Should not every living person (Christian) who witnesses to the lost be c0-redeemers??

Mary needed a savior just like you and I.

LUKE 1:46-47
"46 And Mary said, “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior."

 

[Rockerduck]

Joseph Smith and Maria Valtorta are in the same place.

 

[Magdala]

Well then shouldn't His Apostles all be co-redeemers?? Should not every living person (Christian) who witnesses to the lost be c0-redeemers??

Yes, they should and are, at least by those who recognize them to be so. So, why get so up in arms about the Blessed Virgin Mary being called a "co-redeemer"?

 

[Magdala]

Mary needed a savior just like you and I.

Indeed, and He did save Her, just in advance. He saved Her by preserving Her from becoming subject to the Law of Adam at the moment of Her conception, and she remained without sin of Her own free will in cooperation with God's Grace.

 

[Magdala]

Joseph Smith and Maria Valtorta are in the same place.

Not even close. You should read A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

 

[Rockerduck]

Not even close. You should read A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

Same place for 2 false phophets.

 

[Magdala]

Same place for 2 false phophets.

That doesn't mean anything coming from someone who hasn't even thoroughly investigated her. Others have though, such as archaeologists, geographers, mathematicians, astronomists, meteorologists, and so on, and their conclusions lend credence to her writings having a supernatural origin. She even wrote about things that weren't discovered and proven to be true until after her death.

Can't say the same for Joseph Smith.

 

[Rockerduck]

That doesn't mean anything coming from someone who hasn't even investigated her. Others have though, such as archaeologists, geographers, mathematicians, astronomists, meteorologists, and so on, and their conclusions lend credence to her writings having a supernatural origin.

Joseph Smith does not.

Only to Catholic archaeologists, geographers, mathematicians, astronomists, meteorologists, and so on.

Galatians 1:8-9 - But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Magdala]

Only to Catholic archaeologists, geographers, mathematicians, astronomists, meteorologists, and so on.

You should thoroughly investigate rather than make assumptions.

 

[Magdala]

Galatians 1:8-9 - But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Maria Valtorta doesn't teach another Gospel, which you'd know if you...thoroughly investigated her.

 

[Rockerduck]

tiYou should thoroughly investigate rather than make assumptions.

The Apostle Paul in the 1st century of Christianity said those are to be accursed if they preach another gospel. What more should I investigate? Its Jesus and His Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Glorification. Nothing else,

 

[Rockerduck]

Maria Valtorta doesn't teach another Gospel, which you'd know if you...thoroughly investigated her.

She added parts that cannot be proven.

 

[Magdala]

The Apostle Paul in the 1st century of Christianity said those are to be accursed if they preach another gospel. What more should I investigate? Its Jesus and His Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Glorification. Nothing else,

Again, Maria Valtorta isn't teaching another Gospel. If you want to ignore that, and keep repeating a falsehood, and refuse to thoroughly investigate her to see for yourself, what does reveal about you as a person?

She added parts that cannot be proven.

What are you talking about??

 

[Windmill Charge]

You'll find it difficult to meet someone who worships the Blessed Virgin Mary as a god though

Basic answer is always, talk to a Hindus, or a Buddhist or a Muslim and ask them how they view your practices with Mary and the Saints.
The idolatry of the church as Islam spread was always one of the challenges Islam made to Christians.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, they should and are, at least by those who recognize them to be so. So, why get so up in arms about Mary being called a Co-redeemer?

Because you also call her co-redemptrix. You put her on the same level of Jesus. She did not die for us, only sinless Jesus died for our redemption. You also think she was a perpetual virgin when the plain reading of scripture states otherwise.
These subjects have been spoken about so many times on here, and go nowhere so, I graciously pull out of this thread.
God bless.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Magdala ..do you put Mary on the same level as Jesus?

I thought I would ask you, before I assumed that you did..thanks.

Do you also believe that she was a perpetual virgin ?

The perpetual virginity of Mary is a Christian doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin "before, during and after" the birth of Christ

 

[Magdala]

Because you also call her co-redemptrix.

Do you know why fellow employees are called "co-workers"? It's because they work with each other to accomplish a task. The Blessed Virgin Mary was obedient to God's will and brought the Redeemer into the world in the first place, and helped Him to accomplish His mission of dying for mankind, underwent suffering Herself in Her own way as foretold by Simeon, for suffering is redemptive.

She did not die for us, only sinless Jesus died for our redemption.

You have seen me say in this thread that Jesus is the one who died on the cross, yet you continue to misrepresent me. That is the spiritual blindness caused by Satan... the very topic of this thread.

You also think she was a perpetual virgin when the plain reading of scripture states otherwise.

You know how many other denominations claim "The plain reading of Scripture states blah blah blah?" They can't all be right. You think ALL translators are without error too? If not, how do you know the translation you read isn't without error?

 

[Nancy]

Do you know why fellow employees are called "CO-workers"? It's because they work together to accomplish a task. The Blessed Virgin Mary was obedient to God's will and brought the Redeemer into the world in the first place, and helped Him to accomplish His mission of dying for mankind, underwent suffering Herself in Her own way as foretold by Simeon, for suffering is redemptive.



You have seen me say in this thread that Jesus is the one who died on the cross, yet you continue to mispresent me. That is the spiritual blindness Satan is causing, the very topic of this thread.



You know how many other denominations claim "The plain reading of Scripture states blah blah blah?" They can't all be right. You think ALL translators are without error too? If not, how do you know the translation you read isn't without error?

How do YOU know your translation is the correct one? Your priests, the Pope and extra-biblical writings.

"Do you know why fellow employees are called "CO-workers"? It's because they work together to accomplish a task. The Blessed Virgin Mary was obedient to God's will and brought the Redeemer into the world in the first place, and helped Him to accomplish His mission of dying for mankind, underwent suffering Herself in Her own way as foretold by Simeon, for suffering is redemptive."

Abraham and Moses were also obedient to God's will and they were the ones who "helped" usher in the Messiah. Isaac was the son of the seed of Jesus so, I suppose he too was a co-redeemer and what Christian has not suffered for Jesus sake??

Over 900,000 Christians Martyred for Their Faith in Last 10 Years: Report​

Over 900,000 Christians Martyred for Their Faith in Last 10 Years: Report

Over 900,000 Christians have been martyred in the last 10 years, a Christian research firm affiliated with Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts estimates

www.christianpost.com

Are these not counted as CO-"workers" too?

 

[Magdala]

@Magdala ..do you put Mary on the same level as Jesus?

I thought I would ask you, before I assumed that you did..thanks.

Thank you for asking what I believe rather than, like others have, assume it and then continue to misrepresent me after I objected to the assumption made.

The word “co,” or the prefix “co-” in English can imply equality, and so that’s why it sounds that way. The prefix “co-” comes from the Latin preposition cum, and cum does not necessarily mean “equal.” It can just mean “with,” and that’s the sense that’s in play when the Blessed Virgin Mary is under discussion with respect to the Redeemer. So She’s not equal to Jesus, but She is a woman who cooperates with the Redeemer. She cooperates with God’s plan and Her son’s role in it.

So She, for example, when the angel Gabriel appears to Her, She agrees to become the Mother of the Messiah, the Redeemer, and thus—you know, She’s even told “He will save his people from their sins”—and so She willingly cooperates with the Redeemer, and in that sense she could be described as someone who works with the Redeemer in a unique way, by being his Mother, and you could legitimately use the title for Her in that sense. She also underwent suffering in a different way, as Simeon foretold.

You could also use it for other other people in other senses. All Christians who are doing their job as Christians are cooperating with the Redeemer in one way or another by living a Christian life and setting an example for other people and evangelizing them and telling them about Jesus and doing corporal and spiritual works of mercy. Also, by offering up our own sufferings to God for others, no matter how great, will always be little compared to Jesus's, can be done so for others as well, because all suffering can be redemptive.

All of those things, we cooperate with the Redeemer and his plan. So there’s a sense in which all of us are co-redeemers in this little bitty way.

And so if that’s all you mean, is: “works with the Redeemer in some way,” well then you can use this language regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary, and even with other people.

Do you also believe that she was a perpetual virgin ?

The perpetual virginity of Mary is a Christian doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin "before, during and after" the birth of Christ

Yes and those who do have reasons for saying that.