Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11
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I disagree here that Peter is speaking of a defensive position. I understand him to be saying that we are intended to be active and fruitful - advancing, not defending - and if we aren't, that is, if we are stumbling, open your eyes, remember, you've been cleansed from your old sins, so add to your faith virtue, and so forth.
Be always abounding in the work of the Lord. We are His workmanship, created for the good works He preordained. Adding these things to our faith makes us active, forward moving, actuated Christians, fulfilling our calling. It's a step by step instruction manual to putting on Christ, and that as we do these things, we see God's hand working in and through us, and it makes His nature become our nature. As we share in His work, we come to share more in His nature.
Just like when we do the things we know from Scripture, we come to understand more of what we didn't know.
Hebrews 5:13-14 EMTV
13) For everyone who partakes only of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
14) But solid food is for the mature, for those because of their practice have their senses trained for the distinguishing of both good and evil.
Much love!
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
As soon as Hidden responds to me about "sinless perfection" I will tell him what God has taught me of late. Then you can see if you agree. I'll copy you on it.
Love it!!!! Yes, even though we remain works in process at the moment, still, there is no mistaking God's hand in our lives, shaping who we are, so different from who we were!
Much love!
Yes, and it's a glorious passage in the context of what we are discussing.
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any sin, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own burden. (Galatians 6:1-5)
Being spiritual here equates to being gentle and forgiving, not proud, which can leave you wide open to becoming tempted yourself. And interestingly, one of the things I learned about the last verse there ("for each one shall bear his own burden"), is that I am not going to be judged by the hand someone else was dealt, and they are not going to be judged by mine. A man who has been beaten and abused and rejected his whole life and yet lashes out in a moment of weakness because a lot of bad memories came ruching back is not going to be judged in the same way some other man is who lead a blessed and sheltered life and had good parents and everything he needed to be happy. Sorry, the first man is bearing a much heavier burden he is trying to overcome. Sin is still sin, but forgiveness doesn't hold everyone to a cookie cutter standard and then condemn those who don't measure up. The spiritual man acts on what the Spirit tells him to, and the Spirit looks on the heart of a man, and discerns what he has been through and accounts for it just like the Lord does.
Man could I tell you some stories here. I asked about how the gifts of the Spirit can affect the reinforcement of our faith in one of the questions, and I have been corrected by the Spirit numerous times in just the last few months alone. I LIKE being sweet and gentle and kind. I love that version of me, and that's the man I want to become more and more. But all the junk I've suffered in my life can come back around as well, and sometimes it was all I could do to practically combust. But when He governs your emotions, He will inform you that this is the way you should respond, whether you like it or not. There is no room for pity parties in the things of God. We are all a work in progress, and if we cannot master forgiving each other we will never get where the Spirit of God is trying to take us.
Blessings, and I very much appreciate your post.
- H
Well this is interesting! You know, I'm assuming the staunch mainliners would tell you that only the first one counted, but if I were to give my opinion, it sounds like on the 3rd one you finally did it right.
It is supposed to be conversion into a completely new life now led by the Spirit, and I'm not sure how well we teach that anymore.Well feel free, sister. I have a man who I interacted with elsewhere some, and we finally had to let him go because he was teaching a version of sinless perfection and even going so far as to say that anyone who even sinned a little was not saved. We found that too discouraging to people who truly belonged to God but were still struggling in some areas, so we had to let him go. But until that latter part was discovered about him, for a time I at least appreciated the fact that he was holding Christians accountable for walking in righteousness in Christ. I just think he went a tad too far, and didn't account for the continuing grace of God.
But I appreciate you posting, and I would love to hear what you discovered.
- H
Don't worry about it, Mark, LoL. It's a Bible Study not an echo chamber.
I knew I would get some diverse responses if I started posting at CB again, and like I said, I just like discussing the word. I may not have the same time for going round and round like I used to, so I may just call a truce a little quicker, but I'm always open to exchanging thoughts on scripture. There are a million things I could think of that would be spending time less wisely.
Blessings, and great to have you.
- H
Amen to all!Don't worry about it, Mark, LoL. It's a Bible Study not an echo chamber.
I knew I would get some diverse responses if I started posting at CB again, and like I said, I just like discussing the word. I may not have the same time for going round and round like I used to, so I may just call a truce a little quicker, but I'm always open to exchanging thoughts on scripture. There are a million things I could think of that would be spending time less wisely.
Blessings, and great to have you.
- H
You've got lots of good thoughts, and well written too! We grow together!
Much love!
Didn't take you long, did it! LoL.
Ok, I'll bite. Why do you feel as though the things mentioned in 2 Peter 1:5-7 are not fruit of the Spirit whereas the things mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23?
Amen! I think this is what the NT writers referred as "becoming established in the faith." It's not just about learning the doctrines, but about becoming established in them by the way we are living them out, so that our status with God is no longer front and center of what we are worried about. We are too busy rejoicing in seeing Him work through us to care or be that concerned.
By the grace of God I am what I am.
:-)
The Spirit's fruit in our lives is produced by His presence in us. Jesus told the disciples that they could only bear fruit by being in the vine, in Christ. Because it is Christ producing the fruit, we are merely the fruit bearing branch. We just hold it up. We walk in the Spirit, and the Spirit forms this character within us, to love, rejoice, control ourselves, all the rest. There is no indication that this is partial, increasing, anything like that. Just that the Spirit bears this fruit, in us.Ok, I'll bite. Why do you feel as though the things mentioned in 2 Peter 1:5-7 are not fruit of the Spirit whereas the things mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23?
If we walk in the Spirit, and know Jesus' love for others, and know His faithfulness, we know these things because this is the fruit, knowing this transforms our character (2 Corinthians 3:18 from glory to glory) so that if we are not walking in the Spirit, we still do better being more like Christ.
Peter instructs us to intentionally add these characteristics, and in a progression, not that it grows through us from the source of the Spirit, but that we pick these up and add them to what we've got.
Self control is the overlap, both the Spirit's fruit, and what we are to add. This takes me to Philippians, work out your salvation, God is working in you to will and to do . . .
Does this rambling reply bring any clarification?
Much love!
Yes, that is a more positive tone and take on the passage. My interpretation stems from the words "furnish your faith" in as a means to keep from stumbling. "For these things being in you will make you neither barren nor unfruitful... but the one in whom these things are not present is blind." It seems like a preventive measure is being proscribed, lest we take on forgetfulness of the cleansing of our sins.
Too many preventatives in the passage to approach it that way, but I do like the positive outlook at least. I think once the passage is accurately understood it could easily be turned around to say what you are presenting, because in many ways it's the same message, just that one is more... offensive-oriented as you were trying to say.
Keep in mind too, in general most the Roman armor was not primarily offensive in nature but defensive (though I acknowledge that the armor isn't actually referred to in this passage. I was borrowing that imagery for the sake of using a military application).
Yes, I think it's like two sides of the same coin. The main thrust is to advance, and we also have to make sure we aren't falling back, because that's not advancing.
Much love!
LoL!
Let me step away. As I recall you used to wear me out sometimes, so let me bounce out and I'll check back later to catch up again. More stuff to do these days than I used to.
Blessings, and thanks for the great responses though
- H
I've mellowed a bit since then . . . I hope! You can be the judge of that!LoL!
Let me step away. As I recall you used to wear me out sometimes, so let me bounce out and I'll check back later to catch up again. More stuff to do these days than I used to.
Blessings, and thanks for the great responses though
- H
Much love!
Again, well said!
As the Spirit is always with me, He always know how much I'm trying, or not. Realizing that God sees my every thought, feeling, every last flicker of anything in my mind, there is no hiding from Him, no minimizing, no excuses, just stark bare reality. Standing naked before God.
We are to bear one anothers burden, but each carry his own load. What do your studies tell you about what is their burden, and what is your load?
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Why the third baptism? I believe it was the fourth one, the one in obedience to God speaking to me. I think you read it too fast and thought that NOW I've been baptized three times, and missed the word "before."
I agree with what @marks says below...
What I also believe:
1 John 1:7 which is not that Jesus keeps cleansing lawlessness (mortal sins unto death) (sinless/righteous) but immature fruit (sins NOT unto death) 2 Peter 1:5-7 as we walk in the light - abide in Him and HE IN US. We must continue to walk in the light (abide in Him) for that is when Jesus who does the maturing in us by pruning John 15:1-4 finishes His perfecting work in us so that we come to the place of never stumbling 2 Peter 1:10. Read Revelation 22:11b the righteous or holy. Sinless or Perfect. "Sinless perfection" are two different stages. Not many live long enough to arrive at never stumbling, those mature in ALL the fruit of the Spirit and are still abiding In Him. They are not only righteous (sinless) but holy (never stumbling).
2 Peter 1:10-11.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Notice here in 1 John 3:4-5 that this is what Jesus came to do - take away, take out of our sin nature, the lawless sins unto death, the willful sins against God's law that Adam committed, even though he only had one. We had ten by the time Jesus' blood took the desire out of our nature.
1 John 3:4-5 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
John 15:1-4 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
All we have to do is abide/stay in Jesus because it is He that is the Author and FINISHER of our faith. Remember there are two types of sin. Sins unto death the RCC aptly calls "mortal" and sins NOT unto death they call venial. He first gives us eternal life by removing the sins unto death out of our nature, the "old man" Romans 6:5-7 scripturally making us "free from sin" Paul calls "the flesh." This is when He gives us the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Those who are cleansed of mortal sin are who will be saved. They have the Holy Spirit who continue to work on sins not unto death through our conscience. 1 John 3:21-24. As long as we keep growing in fruit (venial), we won't stall, meaning stop abiding. If we stop abiding though Jesus took away our sins unto death, we could open the door to willful sins unto death. They are the ones who step off the path to salvation. As Jesus can see who are His from beginning to END He will say to those who stalled and even committed a sin unto death, "I never knew you." One of the warnings in the New Testament is having our names removed from the book of life. This is not who ever lived on earth, but who will live forever.
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