Why We Dont See Casting Out of Devils

[Angelina]

Eve was not demon possessed.
She was 'demon influenced.'

Believers who stray from sound doctrinal teachings can easily be demon influenced.
But, never demon possessed.

All false doctrine finds its roots in demon influence.

You cannot be possessed by a demon if you are a believer, brother. She wasn't possessed; she was deceived by the serpent. She was tempted, and then she acted upon that temptation. This caused sin (and consequently death) to enter into the world, which is disobedience toward God's command). Prior to that, she was in communion with God along with Adam. Please note: there was no sin until Eve acted upon that temptation that the serpent presented. There may have been a fallen Satan that existed at that time but no sin till then...

 

[GeneZ]

You cannot be possessed by a demon if you are a believer, brother. She wasn't possessed; she was deceived by the serpent. She was tempted, and then she acted upon that temptation. This caused sin (and consequently death) to enter into the world, which is disobedience toward God's command). Prior to that, she was in communion with God along with Adam. Please note: there was no sin until Eve acted upon that temptation that the serpent presented. There may have been a fallen Satan that existed at that time but no sin till then...

Go read what I said, again, please?

I did not say what you are saying I said.

 

[doctrox]

I never attempted to say otherwise. I was just making the point that the gift of God's Holy Spirit fills every repentant believer who invites Jesus into their life. John 3:3-8; Rev. 3:20.

Again, the Holy Spirit dwelling in a believer does not necessarily exclude a devil dwelling in the same believer's flesh.

 

[Earburner]

Again, the Holy Spirit dwelling in a believer does not necessarily exclude a devil dwelling in the same believer's flesh.

So then, you are saying that satan is stronger than Jesus!

 

[Wick Stick]

Why We Dont See Casting Out of Devils​

Well, many don't believe in them.

And those who do mostly have a fundamental misunderstanding of what they are/do.

 

[Wick Stick]

Again, the Holy Spirit dwelling in a believer does not necessarily exclude a devil dwelling in the same believer's flesh.

I don't think that's right. Do you have a Biblical basis for that statement? I'm thinking of...

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[doctrox]

So then, you are saying that satan is stronger than Jesus!'

and

I don't think that's right. Do you have a Biblical basis for that statement?

Both of you are presuming. As several of us have repeatedly demonstrated, with scripture, the two (Satan and Jesus) are not mutually exclusive within a believer, as one's flesh is not sacrosanct. It appears you've not taken the time to understand the entirety of the preceding posts. I suggest you go back and re-read the posts in this thread.

I'm thinking of...

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. (James 1:8)

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:8)

double minded = dipsychos = two-spirited

[G1374 - dipsychos - Strong's)]


So I will do a re-post below. If you can refute this, likewise with scripture, then I will bear well. If not, then you might bear well:

Can a demon control a believer? Normally, this question is phrased, "Can a believer be possessed by a demon?" As I pointed out earlier, the word "possession" is what is causing the misunderstanding. If by possession one means "ownership," then the answer is "No! A believer can never be possessed by a demon in the sense of ownership." According to 1 Cor. 6:20, the believer has been purchased by the Messiah, he is owned by the Messiah, and he can never be owned by Satan; he can only be owned by the Messiah. But the biblical usage is "control from within." If the question is rephrased as, "Can a believer be controlled by a demon from within?", then the answer is, "Yes, he can." There are two passages that make this clear.

First is Acts 5:1-4, the case of Ananias and Sapphira. Peter asked: Why has Satan filled your heart? using the same Greek word (G4137) that Paul used in Eph. 5:18, when he spoke of being filled with the Spirit. Just as to be filled with the Spirit means to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, so to be "filled with Satan" means to be controlled by Satan. The Holy Spirit controls from within and so, then, must Satan, since the same Greek word (G4137) is used. The Bible does teach that a believer can be controlled by a demon from within.

A second passage is Eph. 4:27, where Paul wrote: Do not give place to the devil. Paul used a Greek word that means "beachhead." When an army attacks, it first sends in soldiers to control a beachhead. This beachhead is inside enemy territory. Once that is done, the reinforcements can come in while those in the beachhead give cover fire. A beachhead is an area of control within enemy territory. A believer can be controlled through a beachhead within, so a believer can be controlled by a demon.

The distinction between believers and unbelievers is not that a believer cannot be controlled and an unbeliever can be controlled. Rather, the difference is a matter of the extent of the control. An unbeliever can be totally controlled, but a believer can only be partially controlled, never totally controlled.

Again, the common objection has been: "How can a demon reside in the same body with the Holy Spirit?" Most believers realize that they still have a sin-nature. The Holy Spirit coexists with the sin-nature of the believer, both of which are within. The point is that the believer has two natures. The Holy Spirit resides in the new nature, not in the old sin-nature. The demon resides not in the new nature, but in the old sin-nature. The fact that there are two natures coexisting within the believer shows why both a demon and the Holy Spirit can coexist within the believer; they reside in two different natures. -- source from post #9

 

[Wick Stick]

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. (James 1:8)

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:8)

double minded = dipsychos = two-spirited

[G1374 - dipsychos - Strong's)]

Mmmm... Psyche is not always Pneuma, though they're related I'll grant. Double-minded is not exactly two-spirited. Psyche is the innate way of a man. Pneuma inhabits a man, but it's external to him in its source.

First is Acts 5:1-4, the case of Ananias and Sapphira. Peter asked: Why has Satan filled your heart? using the same Greek word (G4137) that Paul used in Eph. 5:18, when he spoke of being filled with the Spirit. Just as to be filled with the Spirit means to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, so to be "filled with Satan" means to be controlled by Satan. The Holy Spirit controls from within and so, then, must Satan, since the same Greek word (G4137) is used. The Bible does teach that a believer can be controlled by a demon from within.

Your grammar is poor here. Both verses may use the same root word, but they are cased differently.

Acts 5 says, "why has the Satan (nominative) filled (active) your heart to lie." Given the casing of the words, it does NOT say that Satan inhabits the heart here, but rather that he is the one adding something to their hearts - a lie.

Eph 5 says "be filled (passive) with the Spirit (dative)." Here the Spirit is indeed inhabiting the person.

A second passage is Eph. 4:27, where Paul wrote: Do not give place to the devil. Paul used a Greek word that means "beachhead." When an army attacks, it first sends in soldiers to control a beachhead. This beachhead is inside enemy territory. Once that is done, the reinforcements can come in while those in the beachhead give cover fire. A beachhead is an area of control within enemy territory. A believer can be controlled through a beachhead within, so a believer can be controlled by a demon.

You're arguing for a minority translation. G5117 topos is any hollow space, but especially a room or a scabbard. Beachhead is not a word ever used in the Bible to my knowledge. The standard translation of the verse "do not give place to the devil" is correct.

All that aside, the chapter has nothing to do with possession. It's not talking about that. It's about the behavior of the Ephesians. "Don't go back to your old ways" is the thesis here.

The distinction between believers and unbelievers is not that a believer cannot be controlled and an unbeliever can be controlled. Rather, the difference is a matter of the extent of the control. An unbeliever can be totally controlled, but a believer can only be partially controlled, never totally controlled.

It would be better to first distinguish between devils (diabolos) and the demonized (daimonizomai), as they aren't the same thing.

Devils are accusers - they are external, especially in the special case where it speaks of THE devil.

The Demonized possess spirits. This is internal. Yes, you read that right - the people possess the demons; not the other way round.

Again, the common objection has been: "How can a demon reside in the same body with the Holy Spirit?"

It's a logical objection. How can one be inhabited by an evil spirit and the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit will drive out the other.

Most believers realize that they still have a sin-nature. The Holy Spirit coexists with the sin-nature of the believer, both of which are within.

No, no no. The so-called "sin-nature" is a function of the body. Where we have natural desires stemming from the flesh, there is an occasion for temptation unto sin. This is not an evil spirit dwelling in us. They are simply physical needs - hunger and thirst and sexual appetite. They are not evil of themselves, but they can give occasion to evil.

The point is that the believer has two natures. The Holy Spirit resides in the new nature, not in the old sin-nature. The demon resides not in the new nature, but in the old sin-nature. The fact that there are two natures coexisting within the believer shows why both a demon and the Holy Spirit can coexist within the believer; they reside in two different natures. -- source from post #9

You really need to work on your Greek. The Bible recognizes only one nature (psychikos) and calls for us to OVERCOME it. The pneuma-spirit does not inhabit the psyche-mind, but rather the kardia-heart.

This is easier to understand if one is acquainted with the medical knowledge of Biblical times. They understood the body and mind in terms of the technology of their day. We call this the hydraulic metaphor of the body today.

 

[Earburner]

and

Both of you are presuming. As several of us have repeatedly demonstrated, with scripture, the two (Satan and Jesus) are not mutually exclusive within a believer, as one's flesh is not sacrosanct. It appears you've not taken the time to understand the entirety of the preceding posts. I suggest you go back and re-read the posts in this thread.


A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. (James 1:8)

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (James 4:8)

double minded = dipsychos = two-spirited

[G1374 - dipsychos - Strong's)]


So I will do a re-post below. If you can refute this, likewise with scripture, then I will bear well. If not, then you might bear well:

Can a demon control a believer? Normally, this question is phrased, "Can a believer be possessed by a demon?" As I pointed out earlier, the word "possession" is what is causing the misunderstanding. If by possession one means "ownership," then the answer is "No! A believer can never be possessed by a demon in the sense of ownership." According to 1 Cor. 6:20, the believer has been purchased by the Messiah, he is owned by the Messiah, and he can never be owned by Satan; he can only be owned by the Messiah. But the biblical usage is "control from within." If the question is rephrased as, "Can a believer be controlled by a demon from within?", then the answer is, "Yes, he can." There are two passages that make this clear.

First is Acts 5:1-4, the case of Ananias and Sapphira. Peter asked: Why has Satan filled your heart? using the same Greek word (G4137) that Paul used in Eph. 5:18, when he spoke of being filled with the Spirit. Just as to be filled with the Spirit means to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, so to be "filled with Satan" means to be controlled by Satan. The Holy Spirit controls from within and so, then, must Satan, since the same Greek word (G4137) is used. The Bible does teach that a believer can be controlled by a demon from within.

A second passage is Eph. 4:27, where Paul wrote: Do not give place to the devil. Paul used a Greek word that means "beachhead." When an army attacks, it first sends in soldiers to control a beachhead. This beachhead is inside enemy territory. Once that is done, the reinforcements can come in while those in the beachhead give cover fire. A beachhead is an area of control within enemy territory. A believer can be controlled through a beachhead within, so a believer can be controlled by a demon.

The distinction between believers and unbelievers is not that a believer cannot be controlled and an unbeliever can be controlled. Rather, the difference is a matter of the extent of the control. An unbeliever can be totally controlled, but a believer can only be partially controlled, never totally controlled.

Again, the common objection has been: "How can a demon reside in the same body with the Holy Spirit?" Most believers realize that they still have a sin-nature. The Holy Spirit coexists with the sin-nature of the believer, both of which are within. The point is that the believer has two natures. The Holy Spirit resides in the new nature, not in the old sin-nature. The demon resides not in the new nature, but in the old sin-nature. The fact that there are two natures coexisting within the believer shows why both a demon and the Holy Spirit can coexist within the believer; they reside in two different natures. -- source from post #9

If all would look at the scripture about Ananias and his wife Sapphira, we must NOT ASSUME that they were "born again" of the Lord's Holy Spirit!!
Nowhere does it say that they each were in the Lord, or that He was ever within them!!

We also must not assume that for one to "yield up the ghost" it is to give up the Holy Spirit back to God upon mortal death.

Acts 5
[1] But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
[2] And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
[3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
[6] And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
[7] And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
[8] And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
[9] Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
[10] Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
[11] And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

 

[Rockerduck]

Once upon a time, I had a sin in my life. I, like Apostle Paul, prayed for it to be removed. After I prayed some more, the Holy Spirit said "look in the mirror". It was I that dwelled on it. Well, it's me, so, no more have I got it. Sometimes you just have to confront yourself and know the cause and the cure, and it's not necessarily a demon, but yourself.