An interesting question from my X / Twitter “For you” feed today.
“What would you do if your pastor began to teach heresy?”
(Frank Turek)
“What would you do if your pastor began to teach heresy?”
(Frank Turek)
What would you do if …
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
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bdavidc
Active Member
If a pastor began to teach heresy, anything that contradicts the clear truth of Scripture, I would confront it directly and call it out. There are way too many Preachers that are teaching false doctrine today and not standing up for the truths of the Bible. The Bible commands us to “test everything; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and to “contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3). If a pastor begins preaching false doctrine, especially about core truths like who Jesus is, how we are saved, or the authority of Scripture, that is serious. Paul warned in Galatians 1:8, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” False teaching leads people astray and must be addressed. Titus 1:9 says that a leader must be able to “refute those who contradict” sound doctrine. If a pastor refuses correction and continues in error, they disqualify themselves from leadership (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6–9). I would call it out, warn others, and if it’s not corrected, I would leave that church, because truth must never be compromised.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I’ve tried confronting my pastor privately; I’m not going to do that again. If they teach something I disagree with, I’ll just filter it out. In the Methodist church, pastors are appointed by the Conference. I’ve had 8 pastors in 30 years at my current church, so on the average, we change pastors every 3-4 years. If I don’t like one, just wait a year or so.
Who would you call it out to? Would you do it publicly or privately?
When in the process would you warn others?
Have you ever had this experience actually come up at any church that you have attended?
I take it that it didn’t go well.
I attended a United Methodist Church for a year. The pastor didn’t preach anything which the UMC would have deemed to be heresy. I spoke with him privately about a matter and discovered through that conversation that he personally didn’t believe a particular doctrine that was held by the church. (He told me that he preached what he was paid to preach.) He asked me not to tell anyone else in the congregation about it. I didn’t tell anyone else about it; it was the last time I ever attended a service their.
Did you have any thought about speaking privately with other leaders in the congregation about the matter? Did you warn anyone else about the preaching in question?
Bob
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the discussion.
Here is what Jesus had to say:
Matthew 18:
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Now: if it is the pastor, and the elders back up the pastor, the “ball is back in your court.”
Lambano also has a good point: if you can live with some disagreement, so be it. Otherwise, as some say about the Baptists, if two can’t get along, there will soon be a second church.
Blessings.
Here is what Jesus had to say:
Matthew 18:
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Now: if it is the pastor, and the elders back up the pastor, the “ball is back in your court.”
Lambano also has a good point: if you can live with some disagreement, so be it. Otherwise, as some say about the Baptists, if two can’t get along, there will soon be a second church.
Blessings.
AngelicArcher
Active Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Interesting. The Methodist Church is on a 3-year lectionary cycle, meaning they have a schedule of Old and New Testament readings that we go through so that we cover the whole Bible in three years. This gives the pastor a choice of three readings each week around which to form a sermon. But I've had a couple preface their sermons with, "Look, I know the lectionary recommends these three passages this week, but the Lord laid in on my heart to talk about this subject." Good to know the spirit is talking to them. It must be hard to come up with a good sermon each week.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
No, it didn't.
The first incident, the one that didn't go so well, happened in a large church where I didn't know any of the local powers-that-be. I didn't have any standing to be raising an issue, even if I knew who to raise it to.
The second one wasn't a battle that needed to be fought. The preacher took the time to explain the honest and reasonable doubts she had about the established doctrine (and for the life of me, I can't remember what it was), and the doctrine's supporting scriptures were somewhat ambiguous. I understood where she was coming from, and I had to appreciate her transparency. (Besides, her being a "her" would itself be considered heretical in a lot of churches.)
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PS95
Well-Known Member
I would first pray about it. Then, I would bring it up to him and present with relevant scriptures. If he refused the scriptures, I would warn him about what I would do next. I would approach the elders in the hopes of some back up before going to church members to ask them to come along with me to him. If he refused all of us, I would imagine we would begin discussions on how to ask him to go. If he refused to leave- sadly he would have no choice.
If I didn't have anyone at all to back me up- then I would leave that church after warning them.
I am not talking about a difference in music style or attire preferences, but a serious matter. I think this is the way to handle and it's scriptural, instead of just leaving the church, as too many do that and willingly leave the rest of the church in a false teacher's hands. This is why there are more denominations than I can count, and the false teachers are increasing like never before.
We aren't to be cowards but to stand up for the truth.
Debp
Well-Known Member
I've talked with two pastors at different churches. And left both of those churches.
The first pastor was pushing the gay agenda....years later he wrote a letter to the congregation to say he was gay and married to a man (after divorcing his wife.)
The second pastor said a Bible verse was wrong in a sermon!!! I talked with him after the service....what he said then was even worse so I won't mention it here.
The first pastor was pushing the gay agenda....years later he wrote a letter to the congregation to say he was gay and married to a man (after divorcing his wife.)
The second pastor said a Bible verse was wrong in a sermon!!! I talked with him after the service....what he said then was even worse so I won't mention it here.
I called out a pastor privately about a situation he got himself entangled in and was reprimanded by a regional overseer of that particular church because he shared it. The overseer basically said that I had no authority to call the pastor out because I was not in a position to do that. However, he also called out his leadership team, stating that they should have had the guts to deal with what was going on, as he was sure they were aware of it. Lol!
I was also called out by that same pastor who believed a couple of members regarding a situation with a new member who joined our congregation. She had come over wanting prayer with my friend and me at my house, so we prayed for her. During that time a dark shadow entered the room, which I believed was some kind of familiar spirit that was already following her. She reported this to the pastor, along with another couple who felt I was not walking as a believer should. I had to have a meeting with the regional head of my church, and it didn't start off well because the first thing he said to me was, "It was the woman who was deceived first and not the man." I had to laugh at that because I had an idea of where this meeting was heading. I replied that this may have been so, but the man had responsibility for the woman at the time.
If you look at the story of Genesis, God told Adam about the tree and not to eat from it lest he die, then he made the woman so Adam had the law given to him first, and as patriarchal societies tended to go, he would have passed on that important rule to his wife.
Then I explained that this woman had come to ask for prayer, but she also asked us if we could pray that her husband died so that she can go out with another man she was already interested in. We, of course, declined to do that for her. I did not tell the regional pastor about her request; however, I did say that this woman was a member of the WWCG before joining our local church, and that really changed the whole meeting, and I was exonerated.
Our church actually had 7 pastors go through it in 6 years.
bdavidc
Active Member
If a pastor began to teach heresy, teaching something that clearly contradicts the Word of God, it must be addressed. Scripture gives us instruction on this. Paul tells Timothy, “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear” (1 Timothy 5:20). When false doctrine is taught publicly, it must be corrected publicly so that others are not led astray. Paul also confronted Peter to his face “before them all” when Peter’s actions were not in line with the truth of the gospel (Galatians 2:11–14). At the same time, it’s wise to bring the matter before the elders or deacons as witnesses, as outlined in Matthew 18:15–17 if private attempts have failed or if correction is being ignored. But when it comes to doctrinal error that can corrupt the body of Christ, silence is not an option. Titus 1:9–11 commands leaders to “rebuke” those who contradict sound doctrine, especially when their words are leading others into error. Public heresy requires a public response, not out of pride, but out of love for the truth and a desire to protect the flock.
bdavidc
Active Member
If a pastor or leader is teaching heresy, others should be warned as soon as it becomes clear that what is being taught directly contradicts the truth of Scripture and the person refuses to repent after being confronted. Romans 16:17 says, “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” The warning to others is not gossip, it’s obedience to God’s command to protect the flock from wolves (Acts 20:28–31). If the error is public and persistent, the warning should be just as public so others are not deceived or led into spiritual danger.
As for personal experience, no, I have not seen this happen for false teaching at a Church I attended.
Having falsely accused a trinitarian scholar (in another thread this afternoon) who affirms the doctrine of the full deity of Christ of rejecting the doctrine of the full deity of Christ, you‘ve illustrated a concern I have about your response to the OP.
I don’t doubt your sincerity but your zeal combined with your misunderstanding led you to slander a fellow trinitarian.
I‘m not particularly a fan of asking AI questions but I put the following question to AI this afternoon about Dr. Ben Witherington: “Is Ben Witherington a heretic?”
AI responded:
”No, Ben Itherington is generally not considered a hertic. He is a respected New Testament scholar and pastor, with affiliations in the Weslyan-Arminian tradition and the United Methodist Church. He holds a professorship at Asbury Theological Seminary, a Wesleyan-Holiness institution. His views, while sometimes unconventional, are generally within the mainstream of Christian thought and are not considered heretical.”
But the trinitarian scholar, pastor, leader stands accused - falsely - of not affirming the full deity of Christ. I’m willing to believe the accusation was made out of ignorance, not malice, but the fact remains that the trinitarian scholar, pastor, leader was publicly slandered by a trinitarian sitting in the audience.
How we respond to a pastor isn’t just an academic question. It’s a practical question. A serious matter for us all.
P.S.
For those who may be wondering, the response from AI is consistent with Dr. Witherington’s bio.
asburyseminary.edu
en.wikipedia.org
AI responded:
”No, Ben Itherington is generally not considered a hertic. He is a respected New Testament scholar and pastor, with affiliations in the Weslyan-Arminian tradition and the United Methodist Church. He holds a professorship at Asbury Theological Seminary, a Wesleyan-Holiness institution. His views, while sometimes unconventional, are generally within the mainstream of Christian thought and are not considered heretical.”
But the trinitarian scholar, pastor, leader stands accused - falsely - of not affirming the full deity of Christ. I’m willing to believe the accusation was made out of ignorance, not malice, but the fact remains that the trinitarian scholar, pastor, leader was publicly slandered by a trinitarian sitting in the audience.
How we respond to a pastor isn’t just an academic question. It’s a practical question. A serious matter for us all.
P.S.
For those who may be wondering, the response from AI is consistent with Dr. Witherington’s bio.
Dr. Ben Witherington III - Asbury Theological Seminary
Dr. Witherington joined the Asbury Seminary faculty in 1995 after teaching at Ashland Theological Seminary for more than a decade. He has also taught at High Point College, Duke Divinity School and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. A prolific author, Dr. Witherington has written more than 60...
Ben Witherington III - Wikipedia
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bdavidc
Active Member
I understand your concern, and I appreciate your acknowledgment of my sincerity. However, I want to be clear that my response was based solely on the quote that you shared: “Jesus wasn’t, and isn’t, Yahweh.” That was the only statement I had to go on, and as it was presented, it directly contradicted what Scripture teaches about Jesus. I don’t know Dr. Witherington personally, and I never claimed to. I responded to that statement as written because, on the surface, it appears to deny Christ’s identity as Yahweh, which is a serious matter.
If Dr. Witherington affirms the full deity of Christ and the statement was misunderstood or lacked context, that should have been clarified when it was posted. My goal was not to slander anyone, but to address what sounded like a clear theological contradiction. Scripture calls us to test all things and hold fast to what is true (1 Thessalonians 5:21, Acts 17:11). If further clarification reveals that he holds to sound doctrine on this point, I’m glad to hear it. But responding to a concerning statement is not slander, it is discernment, especially when it relates to the identity of our Lord.
It obviously is all that you went on. His statement doesn’t contradict scripture. He is simply acknowledging that it is the common understanding in 1st century, Second Temple, Judaism. Je made a concession to history.
He is able to hold that in tension with the doctrine of the full deity of the Messiah - which anyone and everyone who knows him knows that he affirms - and that is where I part ways with him.
You jumped to a false conclusion based on your limited understanding and knowledge. It is an occupational hazard for pastors. How you handled it and how he would handle it if he were here on this forum is a delicate matter. Even how I’ve handled it is susceptible to criticism.
You made a very bad mistake. It happens in real life, and pastors have to deal with it.
You’re still avoiding taking responsibility for your rash accusation. You owe the man a public apology.
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bdavidc
Active Member
You’re right that mistakes happen, and I agree that how we respond to them matters. But let’s be honest about where the mistake actually came from. You were the one who posted the quote, “Jesus wasn’t, and isn’t, Yahweh”, without any context or clarification. That’s a serious statement, and presented as-is, it appears to deny the full deity of Christ. I didn’t twist anything. I responded to what was put in front of me.
Now that I’ve looked into Dr. Witherington’s broader views, I see that he affirms the Trinity and the full deity of Christ. That’s good to know. But again, that wasn’t clear from your post, and that’s not my fault. If anyone misrepresented his position, it was you, not me.
But that is not me saying that I follow what he teaches as he does teach things I don’t agree with.
Also, for the record, I’m not a pastor. I’m simply someone who takes the truth of Scripture seriously and will always speak up when a statement appears to undermine who Jesus is. I have no problem clarifying my intent, but I won’t take the blame for confusion caused by a quote you shared without explanation. That’s something you should take responsibility for. Truth matters, and we’re all accountable for how we handle it.
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