Infant Baptism is not given in scripture.

[DJT_47]

That is just not true. The repentant thief on the cross beside Jesus was not baptized, yet he was saved. Sinners are saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Think of the jailer at Philippi. He asked the apostles how he could be saved. They told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and he would be saved. It was only after that we read that he and his family, having believed, were baptized:

“And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” (Ac 16:33-34 NKJV)

Similarly with the Ethiopian whom Philip baptised. When he requested baptism, Philip said:

“If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."” (Ac 8:37 NKJV)

So he believed, then he was baptized.

It is 100% true and 100% scriptural.

And you lack understanding of the thief on the cross issue. In simple terms, Jesus was still alive when he forgave the thief on the cross, no different than his forgiving others during his earthly ministry. His being alive means that the OT was still in effect, not the NT. Baptism into Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), and the NT, was not yet in effect until the death of Christ. Read Hebrews 9 below. The thief wasn't baptized nor did he have to be.


15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[David Lamb]

It is 100% true and 100% scriptural.

And you lack understanding of the thief on the cross issue. In simple terms, Jesus was still alive when he forgave the thief on the cross, no different than his forgiving others during his earthly ministry. His being alive means that the OT was still in effect, not the NT. Baptism into Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), and the NT, was not yet in effect until the death of Christ. Read Hebrews 9 below. The thief wasn't baptized nor did he have to be.


15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Well, I and plenty of other Christians believe that the bible teaches baptism is a sign following belief. Jesus had been crucified when Philip told the Ethiopian that he could be baptized if he believed with all his heart, and when the apostles spoke to the Philippian jailer.

 

[DJT_47]

Well, I and plenty of other Christians believe that the bible teaches baptism is a sign following belief. Jesus had been crucified when Philip told the Ethiopian that he could be baptized if he believed with all his heart, and when the apostles spoke to the Philippian jailer.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. Yes, part of the gospel that Philip preached to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 obviously included the need to be baptized when he us why the eunuch asked about it being near a body of water, and the words are clear: he was told he could be baptized if he believed, he verbally confessed his belief in Jesus as the Christ (Romans 10:9), and was immediately baptized. So, I'm eith you on your statement which is also scriptural and confirms the need for baptism consistent with Acts 2:38 reasoning, for the remission of sins. Baptism is not a sign, but rather a commandment to be followed by believers and an absolute necessity for salvation.

 

[David Lamb]

I don't know what point you're trying to make. Yes, part of the gospel that Philip preached to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 obviously included the need to be baptized when he us why the eunuch asked about it being near a body of water, and the words are clear: he was told he could be baptized if he believed, he verbally confessed his belief in Jesus as the Christ (Romans 10:9), and was immediately baptized. So, I'm eith you on your statement which is also scriptural and confirms the need for baptism consistent with Acts 2:38 reasoning, for the remission of sins. Baptism is not a sign, but rather a commandment to be followed by believers and an absolute necessity for salvation.

What I was trying to explain (sorry if I wasn't clear) is that this is one of the areas where genuine Christians differ. Paedobaptists believe that baptism is commanded as the way to be saved; Baptists and others with baptistic beliefs hold that Baptism is a sign after a sinner is saved. Both groups would say that baptism is a command.

 

[DJT_47]

What I was trying to explain (sorry if I wasn't clear) is that this is one of the areas where genuine Christians differ. Paedobaptists believe that baptism is commanded as the way to be saved; Baptists and others with baptistic beliefs hold that Baptism is a sign after a sinner is saved. Both groups would say that baptism is a command.

If you study and follow the scriptures, its undeniable that baptism is not a sign nor serves the purpose of showing anyone anything relative to your belief, but rather us an absolute need to be saved. Mk 16:15:16 shows it's a commandment and necessity. Belief and baptism are inextricably tied together and inseparable , one not valid without the other, both being required to achieve salvation; "and" is the conjunction that ties the 2 things together.
Belief + baptism = salvation

Mk16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[David Lamb]

If you study and follow the scriptures, its undeniable that baptism is not a sign nor serves the purpose of showing anyone anything relative to your belief, but rather us an absolute need to be saved. Mk 16:15:16 shows it's a commandment and necessity. Belief and baptism are inextricably tied together and inseparable , one not valid without the other, both being required to achieve salvation; "and" is the conjunction that ties the 2 things together.
Belief + baptism = salvation

Mk16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I would say that goes against so many scriptures that tell us that our salvation is all of God. Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:1-9 NKJV)

That rules out baptism as a means of salvation.

 

[DJT_47]

I would say that goes against so many scriptures that tell us that our salvation is all of God. Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:1-9 NKJV)

That rules out baptism as a means of salvation.

Scripture cannot contradict Scripture. The only way to get the correct, total understanding of scripture is to combine all scripture on any given topic. Regarding salvation, you put the pieces together. Kne scripture says belief is required. Another says faith is required. Yet another says repentance is required, and likewise, another says baptism is required. Reading only one and believing in it solely will get you into trouble and provide a false understanding of the overall message.

 

[Behold]

There is no such thing as infant baptism practiced by any Christian denomination.

The "Cult of Mary" practices infant baptism, viewing it as a way to welcome children into the faith and grant them the grace of salvation, and it is considered an immemorial tradition.

Why do they consider this the "grace of Salvation"?

Its because this "water cult's Bible = the demonic Douay Rheims... = teaches in John 3, that you are """ born again....by water".

And of course no one is born again by the city water supply or by a river, pond, creek, ocean, or any other "water supply".

 

[bdavidc]

Most churches are fake and ran by Satan. Seek the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength. I have been Baptized in the Holy Spirit. It was a Supernatural event that lasted weeks. I've never been Baptized in water.

While it’s true that we are to seek the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37), we must also test every experience against the Word of God. Feelings and supernatural encounters can be deceptive. The Bible warns in 2 Corinthians 11:14 that "Satan disguises himself as an angel of light," and in Matthew 7:22–23, Jesus says that many will claim to have done great things in His name, yet He will declare, “I never knew you.” That’s why we are commanded to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).

Being born again is not based on emotional or mystical experiences. It is a supernatural transformation that comes through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, resulting in a new heart and new desires (Ezekiel 36:26–27; John 3:3–8). The evidence of this new birth is not exotic experiences but the fruit of the Holy Spirit—“love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” (Galatians 5:22–23). If those fruits are not present, then one must seriously consider whether the experience was from God.

As for water baptism, while it does not save, it is a command given by Christ Himself as a public testimony of faith and obedience. Acts 2:38 says, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” Jesus was Himself baptized (Matthew 3:13–17) and commanded His followers to do likewise (Matthew 28:19). A true believer, out of love for Christ, will not resist this act of obedience. So, rather than relying on a long emotional experience as proof of salvation, one must turn to the Bible, abide in Christ, and let the fruit of the Spirit confirm the reality of the new birth.

 

[bdavidc]

That is just not true. The repentant thief on the cross beside Jesus was not baptized, yet he was saved. Sinners are saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Think of the jailer at Philippi. He asked the apostles how he could be saved. They told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and he would be saved. It was only after that we read that he and his family, having believed, were baptized:

“And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” (Ac 16:33-34 NKJV)

Similarly with the Ethiopian whom Philip baptised. When he requested baptism, Philip said:

“If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."” (Ac 8:37 NKJV)

So he believed, then he was baptized.

I agree. The claim that someone is not saved or not part of the body of Christ unless they have been immersed in water is not supported by Scripture. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by the act of water baptism. The Bible clearly teaches that it is belief in Christ that saves, and baptism follows as an act of obedience, not as the means of salvation.

As you rightly pointed out, the thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). This proves that water baptism is not required to be saved. In Acts 16:31, when the Philippian jailer asked what he must do to be saved, Paul and Silas answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Baptism followed, but it was the result of salvation, not the cause of it.

The same order is seen with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:36–37. Philip clearly says, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Only then was he baptized. Belief always precedes baptism in Scripture. Moreover, Ephesians 2:8–9 states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Water baptism is a command and an important public declaration of faith, but to teach that it is required for salvation contradicts the clear teaching of the gospel. Salvation is entirely the work of God through faith in Christ, not through human rituals.

But, (grin) I do not understand if someone is truly born again why they would not want to be baptized if they were able to do so. While water baptism does not save, the New Testament consistently shows that those who truly believe in Jesus Christ gladly follow Him in baptism. It’s a command of the Lord, not just a suggestion. Jesus said in Matthew 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” And again in John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

So while baptism itself does not save, a refusal to be baptized, when someone is physically able and understands its meaning, raises a serious question about the heart. Acts 2:41 says, “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized.” The pattern in Scripture is clear: belief is followed by obedience, and baptism is part of that obedience. So yes, if someone claims to be born again but has no desire to be baptized, it’s fair to ask whether they truly understand what it means to follow Christ and if they were truly born again. A changed heart delights in obeying the Lord, not out of obligation, but out of love and gratitude.

 

[Marymog]

Infant baptism is a doctrine of the devil

Where does it say that in Scripture?

Curious Mary

 

[DJT_47]

Where does it say that in Scripture?

Curious Mary

It doesn't but anything that's contrary to the truth is a doctrine of the devil because foolish, lazy people will believe it, embrace it, and put their faith and trust in it, ultimately loosing their souls. Is this not what the devil wants? Is this not how the devil operates, by spreading false doctrine that results in a loss of a person's soul?

 

[AngelicArcher]

No,infant Baptism is not in Scripture.
Infants don't need to be saved either. Nor do newborns.

Jesus said we need to become like them,little children,to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 18:3
“I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven."

 

[Marymog]

It doesn't but anything that's contrary to the truth is a doctrine of the devil because foolish, lazy people will believe it, embrace it, and put their faith and trust in it, ultimately loosing their souls. Is this not what the devil wants? Is this not how the devil operates, by spreading false doctrine that results in a loss of a person's soul?

Help me out here DJT.

We agree that Scripture does NOT say that infant baptism is a doctrine of the devil. I think we would also agree that nowhere in Scripture does it explicitly say to baptize infants. However, your men have taught you that "Infant baptism is a doctrine of the devil" yet your men have given you no proof from Scripture to back that up. It appears your men have taught you a false doctrine since they can't point to Scripture to back up what they have falsely taught you.

I agree with you DJT: The only way to get the correct, total understanding of scripture is to combine all scripture on any given topic.

Scripture says go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them....Are infants part of nations DJT?

Scripture says they brought unto him (Jesus) infants and Jesus said suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Your men have taught you to deny infants being brought to Him? Does DJT believe that the kingdom of God is not for infants?

Scripture says that baptism now saves you. But your men have put an asterisk on that vs saying baptism isn't for infant souls, just adult souls?

Scripture says that entire families were baptized. But your men have taught you that infants are not part of families?

You accept the writings of 16th century men even though the earliest historical Christian writings we have from the 2nd century say they baptized infants. Why do you accept the writings of 16th century men and reject the writings of the men from the early Church?


Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

No,infant Baptism is not in Scripture.
Infants don't need to be saved either. Nor do newborns.

Jesus said we need to become like them,little children,to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 18:3
“I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven."

We agree; nowhere in Scripture does it explicitly say to baptize infants.

Do infants have souls?

Curious Mary

 

[DJT_47]

Help me out here DJT.

We agree that Scripture does NOT say that infant baptism is a doctrine of the devil. I think we would also agree that nowhere in Scripture does it explicitly say to baptize infants. However, your men have taught you that "Infant baptism is a doctrine of the devil" yet your men have given you no proof from Scripture to back that up. It appears your men have taught you a false doctrine since they can't point to Scripture to back up what they have falsely taught you.

I agree with you DJT: The only way to get the correct, total understanding of scripture is to combine all scripture on any given topic.

Scripture says go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them....Are infants part of nations DJT?

Scripture says they brought unto him (Jesus) infants and Jesus said suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Your men have taught you to deny infants being brought to Him? Does DJT believe that the kingdom of God is not for infants?

Scripture says that baptism now saves you. But your men have put an asterisk on that vs saying baptism isn't for infant souls, just adult souls?

Scripture says that entire families were baptized. But your men have taught you that infants are not part of families?

You accept the writings of 16th century men even though the earliest historical Christian writings we have from the 2nd century say they baptized infants. Why do you accept the writings of 16th century men and reject the writings of the men from the early Church?


Curious Mary

It's very simple. The absolute 1st requirement of salvation is belief. No one can believe for another person, and infants are incapable of belief. Jesus said in Mk 16:15-16 below: 1, believe 2 be baptized. Not 1 be baptized and 2 believe later on, maybe, maybe not. Yer this is what's typically practiced by those that hold yo the doctrine of infant baptism.

Secondly, infants have no sin. Sin must be committed. And sin isn't somehow inherited. The bible says that in the OT see below, Ezekiel 18:20

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Ezekiel 18:20

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked sh