Limited atonement !

[Ritajanice]

Eating bread in church, which represents the body of Christ, that was broken for us...eating bread has no affect on one’s salvation....that sounds like they are working to stay saved..we also aren’t saved not until our spirit is Born Again.

I haven’t eaten bread in over 4 years...my spirit knows that it’s Born Again...that’s where the testimony of Gods Living Spirit indwells us..” in our spirit “.

We are Born Again of imperishable seed...a Living seed..the seed of the Living God...an Honour and Privilege to be Born Of The Spirit.

 

[Rightglory]

While you make a good point about the logic of the atonement, Your perspective is lacking in depth. The atonement serves a significant purpose that goes beyond mere forgiveness; it is fundamentally about addressing and appeasing God's wrath against sin. While some Christians may be led to believe that the primary aim of the atonement is simply to confer forgiveness, this understanding misses a deeper truth. The core intention of the atonement is to act as a propitiation, a means through which God's righteous anger is satisfied. This profound act of sacrifice not only clears the way for forgiveness but also empowers Jesus to stand as an advocate and intercessor for those who place their faith in him. Through this process, believers are assured of His continual support and representation before God.

Jesus willingly offered his blood on the cross, an act rooted in his profound obedience to the Father. This sacrificial act not only demonstrated his unwavering commitment but also granted him the unique authority to intercede on behalf of those who follow him. By appeasing God's wrath through his sacrifice, Jesus establishes a compassionate bridge between humanity and the divine, making it possible for God to respond favorably to Jesus’ pleas for forgiveness and mercy towards his followers.

Jesus warned his disciples that people would come in his name, casting out demons, but he will say "get away from me. I never knew you." In this way, Jesus emphasized the profound importance of knowing and being known by Jesus. John, in his first letter, picks up this theme in his discussion of the propitiation.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1John 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.​

John reveals who has an advocate with the Father: those who know him. Jesus' advocacy is predicated on the fact that the Father's wrath was appeased through his death on the cross.

You are advocating the Satisfaction Theory of Atonement. A theory that was first promulgated by a Roman Catholic Anselm in the 12 century. I, nor the Orthodox accept that theory, obviously, It has several serious theological problems.

 

[shepherdsword]

You are corrupting it claiming it is for all, that is Christ died for everyone, all without exception, if you preach that,its a false gospel

The bible says that WHOSOEVER believes in him will have eternal life. God sent Christ to save the WORLD. That is the real gospel.

Jn 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife

Its too bad you feel that way about the Gospel, but hey, its Gods will at this point

And it's too bad that YOU can't refute the Scriptural evidence I presented . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correction accepted, He is regarded as the founder of most of their theology after the fall of Rome and especially after the split that has yet to be resolved.

Actually - not the founder - just the one of the best explainers.

I would say that boh Augustine and Thomas Acquinas best explained the doctrines pof the Church. But, I wouldn't say that they invented them.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe



This doesnt make sense in light of limited atonement .

Well, I confused you. I'm sorry.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are advocating the Satisfaction Theory of Atonement.

No, I am not advocating the Satisfaction Theory of the Atonement. I have already said, several times that the Satisfaction theory is wrong. The satisfaction theory of the atonement postulates that our sin debt must be paid. Under this theory, God decided to have Jesus pay our debt to justice rather than us. Contrary to this view, the New Testament teaches us that our debt was forgiven rather than being paid. Besides that, it would be immoral for God to punish an innocent man for crimes he didn't commit.

The Bible teaches that forgiveness is the result of propitiation, whereby God is so pleased with the obedience of his son, he decides to forgive all of those whom the son decides to forgive.

 

[brightfame52]

The bible says that WHOSOEVER believes in him will have eternal life. God sent Christ to save the WORLD. That is the real gospel.

Jn 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

That supports limited atonement.

 

[brightfame52]

And it's too bad that YOU can't refute the Scriptural evidence I presented . . .

You refuted yourself since you dont believe or understand one scripture you quoted, Limited atonement is a gospel truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Well, I confused you. I'm sorry.

Sounds to me you confused, thats why your post was

 

[Rightglory]

No, I am not advocating the Satisfaction Theory of the Atonement. I have already said, several times that the Satisfaction theory is wrong. The satisfaction theory of the atonement postulates that our sin debt must be paid. Under this theory, God decided to have Jesus pay our debt to justice rather than us. Contrary to this view, the New Testament teaches us that our debt was forgiven rather than being paid. Besides that, it would be immoral for God to punish an innocent man for crimes he didn't commit.

The Bible teaches that forgiveness is the result of propitiation, whereby God is so pleased with the obedience of his son, he decides to forgive all of those whom the son decides to forgive.

God does not decide who to forgive., He forgives all those in faith who come to Him and seek forgiveness of their sin.

 

[Runningman]

May God have mercy on you in your deception

Your god is powerless to do anything to save anyone if the gospel is "you must believe in limited atonement." You have a fake god and nothing will happen to me. I will be resurrected for believing in the true gospel. You'll have nothing but shame.

 

[Runningman]

Where in the Bible does it say that the atonement is universally applicable? Doesn't faith and belief enter into it? And what if faith doesn't endure to the end? What then?

The Bible doesn't use explicit language about salvation either being "universally applicable" or "limited atonement" but it is described repeatedly as conditional and something that can be potentially lost.

 

[shepherdsword]

That supports limited atonement.

It's pointless to argue with someone who denies reality and lives in a fantasy world...goodbye

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sounds to me you confused, thats why your post was

I was reflecting on John 3:16 and my observation that many contemporary Christians often overlook the immense challenges faced by those in the first century when it came to accepting the Gospel's profound truth. When Jesus proclaimed, "whoever believes in him," it was akin to challenging someone to scale the daunting heights of Mt. Everest. There were numerous obstacles to belief—social, cultural, and religious—that early followers had to navigate, and these complexities are frequently underestimated or misunderstood by today's believers.

Given this context, it becomes evident why faith in the Gospel necessitates assistance from the divine. Jesus is not merely implying that belief in the Gospel is a personal choice, leaving those who do not believe to their fate. Instead, he emphasizes that true belief is a reflection of divine intervention from the Spirit of God. This insight reveals that when someone embraces faith, it serves as strong evidence of the active work of the divine in their life, highlighting the profound relationship between human belief and divine grace.

Thus, the atonement is limited to those God chooses to transform spiritually.

 

[CadyandZoe]

God does not decide who to forgive., He forgives all those in faith who come to Him and seek forgiveness of their sin.

Both are true at the same time. God chooses who will come to him in faith to seek his forgiveness. Have you heard about the circumcision of the heart?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Bible doesn't use explicit language about salvation either being "universally applicable" or "limited atonement" but it is described repeatedly as conditional and something that can be potentially lost.

The Bible suggests that while an individual’s faith may waver or even be abandoned, the gift of salvation cannot be forfeited. Salvation, as understood within the Scriptures, is an act of divine grace in which God not only brings about spiritual awakening but also ensures the steadfastness of that faith. Therefore, when God engages in the process of saving, He guarantees the preservation of every soul entrusted to Him, ensuring that none are lost in the journey of faith.

There are many places in the New Testament we can find support for this idea, but Peter sums it up well.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Peter emphatically asserts that salvation cannot be lost, describing it as a sacred inheritance that remains untouched and incorruptible. While it is possible for individuals to squander or lose what they currently possess, Peter’s message centers on a divine inheritance that is firmly anchored in a living hope—a promise that stems from the transformative experience of being born again. This inheritance is not only enduring but also radiant, reflecting the profound security that comes from an unbreakable faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Your god is powerless to do anything to save anyone if the gospel is "you must believe in limited atonement." You have a fake god and nothing will happen to me. I will be resurrected for believing in the true gospel. You'll have nothing but shame.

May God have mercy on you in your blasphemy

 

[brightfame52]

It's pointless to argue with someone who denies reality and lives in a fantasy world...goodbye

See u on judgment day

 

[brightfame52]

I was reflecting on John 3:16 and my observation that many contemporary Christians often overlook the immense challenges faced by those in the first century when it came to accepting the Gospel's profound truth. When Jesus proclaimed, "whoever believes in him," it was akin to challenging someone to scale the daunting heights of Mt. Everest. There were numerous obstacles to belief—social, cultural, and religious—that early followers had to navigate, and these complexities are frequently underestimated or misunderstood by today's believers.

Given this context, it becomes evident why faith in the Gospel necessitates assistance from the divine. Jesus is not merely implying that belief in the Gospel is a personal choice, leaving those who do not believe to their fate. Instead, he emphasizes that true belief is a reflection of divine intervention from the Spirit of God. This insight reveals that when someone embraces faith, it serves as strong evidence of the active work of the divine in their life, highlighting the profound relationship between human belief and divine grace.

Thus, the atonement is limited to those God chooses to transform spiritually.

So do you believe Christ died for all humanity or for some of mankind only ?