I am God

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Fred J

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There's a renown muslim speaker who frequently ask Christians during Q&A, where in the Bible Jesus plainly said that, 'I am God'.

He even challenged if anyone can show it to him word to word, he will immediately become a Christian.

If we were to quote other scripture that Jesus claim to be one with GOD, he will not accept.

Why didn't Jesus just go ahead and plainly say, 'I am God.' ?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
 
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David Lamb

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There's a renown muslim speaker who frequently ask Christians during Q&A, where in the Bible Jesus plainly said that, 'I am God'.

He even challenged if anyone can show it to him word to word, he will immediately become a Christian.

If we were to quote other scripture that Jesus claim to be one with GOD, he will not accept.

Why didn't Jesus just go ahead and plainly say, 'I am God.' ?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
Nowhere do we read in the bible that Jesus said the words translated into English as "I am God." However, He did say things that even His enemies recognised meant that He was claiming equality with God the Father:

“"I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."” (Joh 10:30-33 NKJV)
 

soberxp

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Nowhere do we read in the bible that Jesus said the words translated into English as "I am God." However, He did say things that even His enemies recognised meant that He was claiming equality with God the Father:

“"I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."” (Joh 10:30-33 NKJV)
We and Jesus Christ are one body............But that doesn't mean make ourself God.
 
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David Lamb

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We and Jesus Christ are one............
Not in the same way that Jesus Christ and His heavenly Father are one. Christians are said in the bible to be "in Christ." They are also told that they are all one:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:28 NKJV)

What part of Scripture are you thinking of that says we and Jesus Christ are one, in the same way that He said, "I and My Father are one"?

Sorry - I notice that you have added words to your post (body............But that doesn't mean make ourself God.) That answers what I was asking. Thanks.
 
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Ritajanice

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We and Jesus Christ are one body............But that doesn't mean make ourself God.
Amen.....different parts of the body...

12As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit. 14Now the body is not a single part, but many.

1 Corinthians 12:12-27​

KJV

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, [1] whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow [2] more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism [3] in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
 
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soberxp

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Not in the same way that Jesus Christ and His heavenly Father are one. Christians are said in the bible to be "in Christ." They are also told that they are all one:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:28 NKJV)

What part of Scripture are you thinking of that says we and Jesus Christ are one, in the same way that He said, "I and My Father are one"?
We are the temple of God, and spirit of God live in us.
The Spirit of God live in Jesus. So Jesus said"I and my father Are one."
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:28 NKJV)
 

David Lamb

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We are the temple of God, and spirit of God live in us.
The Spirit of God live in Jesus. So Jesus said"I and my father Are one."
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:28 NKJV)
Yes I agree. I have edited my earlier post to take account of the change you made in your post 3 in this thread. When I first replied, that post just said, "We and Jesus Christ are one............"
 

Ritajanice

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Galatians 3:27-2827 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
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keithr

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Why didn't Jesus just go ahead and plainly say, 'I am God.' ?
It should be obvious - Jesus did not say that he is God because he is not God. He is God's only begotten son:

1 John 4:9
(9) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.​

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):
(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​
 

David Lamb

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It should be obvious - Jesus did not say that he is God because he is not God. He is God's only begotten son:

1 John 4:9
(9) In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.​

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):
(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​
Saying Jesus is not God goes against the opening of John's gospel:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

John explains a few verses later Who he meant by "the Word":

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)
 

Behold

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1.) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God" ("And the Word was God")>

So, how is "the Word, WITH God.......and also.......WAS God".. ????


= A.) "Let US...... make man ........in OUR... image".


AA.) "US... and OUR">.. = "The Word was WITH God.......and = WAS God"..

So, this is The Father and the Jesus the WORD.. = pre-incarnate".

See those 2 ? That is .."US>.. and OUR"...= as ONE.

Next..

"The WORD.... ... (who Was God)... was manifested in the FLESH".... as the virgin born : JESUS... the "God-man".
 

Jericho

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There's a renown muslim speaker who frequently ask Christians during Q&A, where in the Bible Jesus plainly said that, 'I am God'.

He even challenged if anyone can show it to him word to word, he will immediately become a Christian.

If we were to quote other scripture that Jesus claim to be one with GOD, he will not accept.

Why didn't Jesus just go ahead and plainly say, 'I am God.' ?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

He certainly alluded to it often, and someone versed in the Scriptures would have understood it, which is why the religious authorities wanted to crucify Him. Jesus referred to Himself as the "I Am" on several occasions. This was the same thing God called Himself from the burning bush, and it would not have been lost on the Pharisees and Sadducees. As to why Jesus didn't come right out and say it, 1 Corinthians 2:8 said that if the rulers had known, they wouldn't have crucified Him. Jesus kept some things veiled for a reason. Not even His apostles understood everything He said when He said them. It would make sense that He would not come right out and say it so as to not get crucified before His appointed time.
 

Aunty Jane

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Saying Jesus is not God goes against the opening of John's gospel:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)
Well actually, if you read that verse in Greek, it doesn’t say what it says in English, since the translators were trinitarians, and they left out a very important little word…..

Here it is word for word
John 1:1 Mounce Interlinear…..
“In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”

…..do you see that little word “ho” used several times in that verse? It clearly means “the” and “theos” clealy means “God”….so what is this saying in Greek that is left out in English? The word was with ”ho theos“ but the Word was just “theos”….

We know that God’s divine name (Yahweh) was no longer used by the Jews when Jesus came to begin his ministry, so the Greeks (who were polytheistic) had no word to identify a god with no name, so using the word “theos” for the one nameless God of the Jews required them to use the definite article “ho” or “the” to describe “THE God” of the Jews.

According to Strongs Concordance, “theos” was the word used for “any god or goddess or divinity”. So the term itself (theos) was non-specific to those who worshipped multiple gods, all of whom had names to distinguish them. Israel’s God was unique, but they refused to utter his name.
By putting the definite article before the word “theos” they identified “the God” of Israel. The OT leaves us in no doubt as to what God’s name is.

Psalm 83:18 KJV….
”That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”
But if you look up that verse in the NKJV….what do you notice?…

“That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.”

Where did God’s name go? And more importantly why did they change it and substitute a title instead?
At Exodus 3:13-15 the NKJV says….

”Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’ ”


When you read that passage from the Jewish Tanakh….it says…

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

What do you see there? What does God’s name mean?…..”l will be what I will be”…..not “I AM”. Why is that important? Because the Jews already knew who their God was, but he was revealing a new aspect to his name….he would “be” or “become” whatever he needed to be in order to fulfill his purpose. What was his purpose for the Israelites? To produce their Messiah in Abraham’s family line.

And what do we see in this translation that is the same as the English translations revealing blatant disobedience on the part of the Jews concerning the divine name?
What did God tell Moses to tell his people…?
“This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”

So what was God’s name as mentioned in Jewish Scripture but not translated into English as “Jehovah”, and not even transliterated to “Yahweh”, in spite of the consensus that this may have been the way to pronounce it….now lost in antiquity through their disobedience.

It is there in the Hebrew text….יְהֹוָ֞ה……YHWH.
This is God’s unique name, and is given to no others. Yahweh “alone is the Most High”.….there is none higher or his equal.

Why did Jesus make a big deal out of God’s name? Why did he say in the Lord’s Prayer that it must be “hallowed”…which means ”made holy”…”greatly revered“…”honored”.
How do you honor a name you never use?

Jesus prayed….”Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. 26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.” (John 17:25-26)

If John 1:1 had included the divine name, no trinity could ever have been suggested because it would have said in John 1:1….”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Yahweh and the Word was divine”.
It was “ho logos“ who “became flesh”, not “ ho theos”. (John 1:14)

John 1:18….No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” (NKJV)
How many people saw Jesus?
The “bosom” is a position of favor with the Father.

This is what genuine Bible study reveals….not just a study of “theology”.

John explains a few verses later Who he meant by "the Word":

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)
Yes “the Word“ is a title for Jesus Christ…who was “with“ his God and Father in heaven before coming to earth to be born as a human child.….the meaning of that title can be applied to “one who speaks for God”…a representative or spokesman. Jesus was indeed God’s representative who came to die so that the curse of Adam’s sin could be removed by his atonement.

Please tell me how an immortal God can die…..or how mere humans can kill God?
Jesus only ever said he was “God’s son”…never once did he claim to be God incarnate.

John 10:31-36 attested to the fact that the Jews did not accuse Jesus of being “God“ but of being “divine”, which is what “theos“ means……”divinity” is not necessarily “deity” as that scripture proves, because Yahweh himself called human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) because they were his authorized representatives. That is another scripture that read in Greek, shows the difference between “theos” and “ho theos”.

Christendom’s trinity is not found in Scripture…..it is entirely an invention of the Catholic church and propped up by biased translators.
 
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ScottA

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Well actually, if you read that verse in Greek, it doesn’t say what it says in English, since the translators were trinitarians, and they left out a very important little word…..

Here it is word for word
John 1:1 Mounce Interlinear…..
“In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros ·ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos.”

…..do you see that little word “ho” used several times in that verse? It clearly means “the” and “theos” clealy means “God”….so what is this saying in Greek that is left out in English? The word was with ”ho theos“ but the Word was just “theos”….

We know that God’s divine name (Yahweh) was no longer used by the Jews when Jesus came to begin his ministry, so the Greeks (who were polytheistic) had no word to identify a god with no name, so using the word “theos” for the one nameless God of the Jews required them to use the definite article “ho” or “the” to describe “THE God” of the Jews.

According to Strongs Concordance, “theos” was the word used for “any god or goddess or divinity”. So the term itself (theos) was non-specific to those who worshipped multiple gods, all of whom had names to distinguish them. Israel’s God was unique, but they refused to utter his name.
By putting the definite article before the word “theos” they identified “the God” of Israel. The OT leaves us in no doubt as to what God’s name is.

Psalm 83:18 KJV….
”That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”
But if you look up that verse in the NKJV….what do you notice?…

“That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.”

Where did God’s name go? And more importantly why did they change it and substitute a title instead?
At Exodus 3:13-15 the NKJV says….

”Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’ ”


When you read that passage from the Jewish Tanakh….it says…

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

What do you see there? What does God’s name mean?…..”l will be what I will be”…..not “I AM”. Why is that important? Because the Jews already knew who their God was, but he was revealing a new aspect to his name….he would “be” or “become” whatever he needed to be in order to fulfill his purpose. What was his purpose for the Israelites? To produce their Messiah in Abraham’s family line.

And what do we see in this translation that is the same as the English translations revealing blatant disobedience on the part of the Jews concerning the divine name?
What did God tell Moses to tell his people…?
“This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”

So what was God’s name as mentioned in Jewish Scripture but not translated into English as “Jehovah”, and not even transliterated to “Yahweh”, in spite of the consensus that this may have been the way to pronounce it….now lost in antiquity through their disobedience.

It is there in the Heb...
Language is confused--not the end all of interpretation. But even in the language of the scriptures--if they are all reconciled--Jesus is God according to John yes, but also prophesied by name by Isaiah:

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child H3206 is born, H3205 unto us a son H1121 is given: H5414 and the government H4951 shall be upon his shoulder: H7926 and his name H8034 shall be called H7121 Wonderful, H6382 Counsellor, H3289 The mighty H1368 God, H410 The everlasting H5703 Father, H1 The Prince H8269 of Peace. H7965

@David Lamb
 
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Language is confused--not the end all of interpretation. But even in the language of the scriptures--if they are are all reconciled--Jesus is God according to John yes, but also prophesied by name by Isaiah:
Not reconciled at all….contradictory.
John 1:1 does not say that Jesus is “ho theos”….the Word (ho logos) was WITH God (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos). There is not a single clear statement from either Jesus or his Father, declaring that Jesus is Almighty God….he is a “mighty god” which fits perfectly with Isaiah‘s prophesy that you quoted below….
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child H3206 is born, H3205 unto us a son H1121 is given: H5414 and the government H4951 shall be upon his shoulder: H7926 and his name H8034 shall be called H7121 Wonderful, H6382 Counsellor, H3289 The mighty H1368 God, H410 The everlasting H5703 Father, H1 The Prince H8269 of Peace. H7965
A study in Hebrew will reveal that with every title given to Jesus in that prophesy, none proclaim that he is God’s equal.

Can the Father be his own son?

What is the government that is upon the shoulders of this son?

How do Jews interpret what these titles mean?

Especially “the mighty God”…..it doesn’t say “the Almighty God”…does it?
What does the word “god” mean in Hebrew?
ēl” is given the definition….
  1. “god, god-like one, mighty one
    1. mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
    2. angels
    3. god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
    4. God, the one true God, Jehovah” (Strongs)
Can someone who is not “God” be called “a god” by Jehovah himself? Read John 10:31-36 and see….
Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 where he called human judges “gods”, which uses the plural “ĕlōhîm”.
But in Greek it is just “theos”...which has several meanings as well. “ho theos” only ever refers to Jehovah.

What about “everlasting Father”…what does everlasting mean? If something lasts forever, did it need a beginning? Can something created last forever? What about the Universe? Is it going to disappear any time soon?
And the term “Father” also has more than one meaning in the Bible….

āḇ” means….
  1. father of an individual
  2. of God as father of his people
  3. head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
  4. ancestor
    1. grandfather, forefathers ” (Strongs)

So doing a bit of research reveals that scripture doesn’t necessarily mean what English says it does.
 
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shepherdsword

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Jesus proclaimed himself God by using the covenant name " I AM" The english word "he" is not in the greek text:

Jn 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he is not in the greek text) ye shall die in your sins.

Ex 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
 
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ScottA

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Not reconciled at all….contradictory.
John 1:1 does not say that Jesus is “ho theos”….the Word (ho logos) was WITH God (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos). There is not a single clear statement from either Jesus or his Father, declaring that Jesus is Almighty God….he is a “mighty god” which fits perfectly with Isaiah‘s prophesy that you quoted below….

A study in Hebrew will reveal that with every title given to Jesus in that prophesy, none proclaim that he is God’s equal.

Can the Father be his own son?

What is the government that is upon the shoulders of this son?

How do Jews interpret what these titles mean?

Especially “the mighty God”…..it doesn’t say “the Almighty God”…does it?
What does the word “god” mean in Hebrew?
ēl” is given the definition….
  1. “god, god-like one, mighty one
    1. mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
    2. angels
    3. god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
    4. God, the one true God, Jehovah” (Strongs)
Can someone who is not “God” be called “a god” by Jehovah himself? Read John 10:31-36 and see….
Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 where he called human judges “gods”, which uses the plural “ĕlōhîm”.
But in Greek it is just “theos”...which has several meanings as well. “ho theos” only ever refers to Jehovah.

What about “everlasting Father”…what does everlasting mean? If something lasts forever, did it need a beginning? Can something created last forever? What about the Universe? Is it going to disappear any time soon?
And the term “Father” also has more than one meaning in the Bible….

āḇ” means….
  1. father of an individual
  2. of God as father of his people
  3. head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
  4. ancestor
    1. grandfather, forefathers ” (Strongs)

So doing a bit of research reveals that scripture doesn’t necessarily mean what English says it does.
If you maintain your insistence that [confused] language, whether spoken or written, is the final say--you will remain in confusion.

One word under confusion does not explain another under confusion. That process is no more profitable than the flesh. Do you understand that those are the terms set forth by God? The flesh profits nothing. Meaning: You are looking to the flesh, and not to God.


Meanwhile, the flesh and those things made manifest, including the Word spoken or written--even from the Son of God, only points to what is actually true. Which is not to say that the Son is not God, but rather to clearly state where the truth of God is to be found. It is not to be found in the image, or the expressed word, or in what is made manifest, but in Him who makes all things manifest. Is a revelation God? No, but a mere showing. Is Christ not also made in His image? Of course!

Your questions are easily answered. But if answered with another showing, nothing has been revealed, but more that points to Him who gave the question. The point then, is that all things are questions (not answers). Do you not understand that the Son as much as pointed this our, answering many questions with a question? Yes, and likewise He spoke parables to show that the words--and everything made manifest--is only an unanswered parable. But that is not where He left it. He also gave the answer and how every parable--as He said "all parables"--saying, the word--not even the Son is the answer to all revelations, but the Spirit--"the words are spirit."

Your question(s) then:

"Can the Father be his own son?" - In this world and in the flesh--no. But is this world and the flesh--the ways of mere men, the scope of your question? No. And yet, that is how you posed the question...as if we were talking about mere men of this world. As for the answer to you question--that is answer enough.​
"What is the government that is upon the shoulders of this son?" - Jesus made it clear, saying, "My kingdom is not of this world." Meaning, not one of flesh, not one of words posed as questions only pointing to His kingdom. Which He spoke of from the flesh and this world like a mere echo only being heard in the world. So, what do you think, is an echo to be called the Source? No, but do not misunderstand. It is only an echo in this world--the words of Christ spoken and now written--because they were first spoken by God, that it should become an echo in the world. And it is that Source, meaning God, that is the government of the Son--which makes the Two One God. Two, not as in fleshly terms as if two gods...but as two by expression--"A son is given." By which we who first see only that which is made manifest, are first given sight, that we may know Him who is otherwise unseen of this world. Which governance was given that we might see Him.​
"How do Jews interpret what these titles mean?" - If you understand that all that is manifest in this world is as flesh, the answer was first given by those terms, as "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." Meaning: The Jews interpreted by the "natural"--the flesh, and the terms of this world.​
And the rest of your questions are a repeat of the same worldly logic, only to be answered as I already have stated.​
I'll say it again: "If you maintain your insistence that [confused] language, whether spoken or written, is the final say--you will remain in confusion."
 
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GRACE ambassador

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Why didn't Jesus just go ahead and plainly say, 'I am God.' ?
Precious friend, He Did Not Have To Do So:

"For My Thoughts Are Not your thoughts, Neither Are​
your ways My Ways, Saith The LORD." (Isaiah 55:8 AV)​

Thus, all of the humble who have trusted In Him will Certainly study All Of His Inspired
Word and
simply believe All Of The Multitude Of Plainly and Clearly Presented
Scriptures That:


The LORD Jesus Christ Is The Almighty God!!

Amen.
 
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Aunty Jane

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TRUTH….
We will all stand or fall by what we are persuaded to believe….so….who persuaded us to accept their truth?
And why do we think that our beliefs are the correct ones?

How many truths are there? There can only be one. All roads do not lead to life….so decisions have to be made.

How many will actually find that one truth and accept it, in spite of the difficulty that it will bring with it? (John 15:18-21) According to Jesus….”few” will find the right path. (Matt 7:13-14) WHY?

What makes the majority “wrong”? What do the majority believe, that puts them all into one camp…on the wrong path?

Do the math.

The “wheat and the weeds” are completely separated by Jesus at the time of his manifestation as the judge of us all….these will have nothing in common. So it’s not what beliefs they hold in common, but what beliefs separate them, that makes the difference.

“Sheep and goats” are also used by Jesus in his illustrations…..but again, what is the difference?

Both were “clean” animals for food and also for sacrifice under Israel’s law….so what is the difference from Jesus’ perspective, as shepherds took care of both species.….now, since only the “sheep” will be accepted by him at the judgment, what is Jesus looking for in his sheep, that is missing in the goats? Both exhibit unique traits although uttering a similar ‘bleat’. It is the common traits of goats that make them different….so how are they different? One major difference, is what they eat, and the environments they prefer. What the goats prefer, is the opposite of what the sheep do…..Jesus knows what we prefer as we demonstrate that by our choices.

According to Jesus, the “goats” will be the last to know that this is how he views them, before sending them to a place that they never imagined that they would go. (Matt 7:21-23) It’s what they failed to do that was the problem. (Matt 24:41-46)

I have goats , so I know their traits. They have no concept of “being in the way” if you are trying to get past them….yet they will shove anything or anyone out of their way, I order to get to their favorite foods. They are single minded….stubborn….self seeking.

Actions speak louder than words. What traits is Jesus seeing in us?
 
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soberxp

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The Gospel of John
20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

We are the temple of God, and spirit of God live in us.
The Spirit of God live in Jesus. So Jesus said"I and my father Are one."

So Thomas wasn't speaking to Jesus Christ:"My God", he was speaking to The Spirit of God.

and he was speaking to Jesus Christ:"My lord."
 
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