The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Zao is life]

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

The Spirit was already with Him and in Him before He died. He (the Spirit) always was IN Him. And the Spirit - His Spirit - was already always with the Father BEFORE he died, and when he died.

Jesus was a Man - FULLY human. But His Spirit did not "go" anywhere it had not always been, but remained with Him and in His soul, and with the Father, as it always was.

Our souls would also have gone to hades, but thanks be to Him for going to hades for us, if His Spirit is IN US, our souls will remain in Him when we die.

His SOUL did not go directly to the Father when He died. The SPIRIT who was always both with the Father and IN Him, remained in Him - with His soul - and with the Father. And He is FULLY human as well as FULLY God.

There's absolutely no reason IMO to assume that Jesus was going to go to the Father immediately following His death. His Spirit is the Spirit of God but his soul went directly to hades - but because He is God and His Spirit was with the Father (being the Spirit of the Father) death could not hold Him.

 

[Davidpt]

So I go with your second scenario.

Per the 2nd scenario, in this understanding, the spirit would be an external force—something that originates from God and isn’t inherently part of us. This concept resonates with my experience in creating 3D animations, where I work with characters, especially humans.

In 3D animation, there are three key components: the mesh (the outer form or body), the biped (which is the skeleton), and the animation file (which gives life to the character). The biped (skeleton) is placed inside the mesh, then bound together. Afterward, the animation file is applied to the skeleton, which animates the mesh.

In this analogy, the mesh represents the physical body, the skeleton (biped) represents the soul, and the animation file represents the spirit. Without the animation file, the skeleton (soul) inside the body (mesh) is lifeless—just as the soul without the spirit is incomplete, lacking life.

 

[ewq1938]

There's absolutely no reason IMO to assume that Jesus was going to go to the Father immediately following His death.

Except he said so.

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

 

[Zao is life]

Except he said so.

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Where was the Father when the Spirit was in Christ?
Where was the Spirit when the Spirit was in Christ? In the Father? Or in Christ? Or both?

Tell us where the scripture tells us that His Spirit, which is omnipresent, was not always with the Father:

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. -- John 1:48.

How did Jesus see Nathanael under the fig tree?

His soul departed out of this world to hades when He died. His Spirit REMAINED WITH the Father. His BODY was in the tomb. Which part of Christ "WENT TO" the Father the moment He died?

 

[Zao is life]

Per the 2nd scenario, in this understanding, the spirit would be an external force—something that originates from God and isn’t inherently part of us. This concept resonates with my experience in creating 3D animations, where I work with characters, especially humans.

In 3D animation, there are three key components: the mesh (the outer form or body), the biped (which is the skeleton), and the animation file (which gives life to the character). The biped (skeleton) is placed inside the mesh, then bound together. Afterward, the animation file is applied to the skeleton, which animates the mesh.

In this analogy, the mesh represents the physical body, the skeleton (biped) represents the soul, and the animation file represents the spirit. Without the animation file, the skeleton (soul) inside the body (mesh) is lifeless—just as the soul without the spirit is incomplete, lacking life.

Just don't add blood and water please because then you would have created a beast

 

[ewq1938]

Where was the Father when the Spirit was in Christ?
Where was the Spirit when the Spirit was in Christ? In the Father? Or in Christ? Or both?

Tell us where the scripture tells us that His Spirit, which is omnipresent, was not always with the Father:

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. -- John 1:48.

How did Jesus see Nathanael under the fig tree?

His soul departed out of this world to hades when He died. His Spirit REMAINED WITH the Father. His BODY was in the tomb. Which part of Christ "WENT TO" the Father the moment He died?

These are all red herrings. Deal with the verse, where Jesus says the hour had come for him to depart to the Father. This is a reference to him going to the cross and dying and going to the father. This means he went to heaven first, then went to hades.

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

 

[Davy]

The Spirit was already with Him and in Him before He died. He (the Spirit) always was IN Him. And the Spirit - His Spirit - was already always with the Father BEFORE he died, and when he died.

Jesus was a Man - FULLY human. But His Spirit did not "go" anywhere it had not always been, but remained with Him and in His soul, and with the Father, as it always was.

Our souls would also have gone to hades, but thanks be to Him for going to hades for us, if His Spirit is IN US, our souls will remain in Him when we die.

His SOUL did not go directly to the Father when He died. The SPIRIT who was always both with the Father and IN Him, remained in Him - with His soul - and with the Father. And He is FULLY human as well as FULLY God.

There's absolutely no reason IMO to assume that Jesus was going to go to the Father immediately following His death. His Spirit is the Spirit of God but his soul went directly to hades - but because He is God and His Spirit was with the Father (being the Spirit of the Father) death could not hold Him.

That actually reveals that you don't quite understand the difference between our 'spirit', and our 'soul', vs. our flesh body (Hebrews 4:12; Ecclesiastes 12:5-7; Matthew 10:28).

The whole Heavenly dimension is made up of Spirit. That is where God as a Spirit created all things from, through His Son Jesus Christ (Hebrew 1; John 4:24).

True, that Jesus' Spirit as God The Son remained with Him while He was in the flesh. That's actually what is meant by Matthew 1:23 with His Name of "Immanuel" from Isaiah 7, which means 'God with us'.

 

[Zao is life]

That actually reveals that you don't quite understand the difference between our 'spirit', and our 'soul', vs. our flesh body (Hebrews 4:12; Ecclesiastes 12:5-7; Matthew 10:28).

The whole Heavenly dimension is made up of Spirit. That is where God as a Spirit created all things from, through His Son Jesus Christ (Hebrew 1; John 4:24).

True, that Jesus' Spirit as God The Son remained with Him while He was in the flesh. That's actually what is meant by Matthew 1:23 with His Name of "Immanuel" from Isaiah 7, which means 'God with us'.

That only reveals that you do not understand that because the Spirit of God is omnipresent and remained with and in Christ and with and in the Father before our Lord's death, He (the Spirit) remained with and in the Father and with Christ's soul when His soul went to hades.

Jesus did not have to "go places" to "go" to the Father in order for the Spirit to remain with Him. "Going" to be with the Father needed a body to accomplish, and the first time He "went" to be with the Father following His crucifixion was when He did so BODILY.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Per the 2nd scenario, in this understanding, the spirit would be an external force—something that originates from God and isn’t inherently part of us. This concept resonates with my experience in creating 3D animations, where I work with characters, especially humans.

In 3D animation, there are three key components: the mesh (the outer form or body), the biped (which is the skeleton), and the animation file (which gives life to the character). The biped (skeleton) is placed inside the mesh, then bound together. Afterward, the animation file is applied to the skeleton, which animates the mesh.

In this analogy, the mesh represents the physical body, the skeleton (biped) represents the soul, and the animation file represents the spirit. Without the animation file, the skeleton (soul) inside the body (mesh) is lifeless—just as the soul without the spirit is incomplete, lacking life.

How do you interpret this verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How can Paul refer to "your whole spirit" if the spirit "isn’t inherently part of us"?

Do you think that the souls of the dead in Christ in heaven are separate from their spirits?

 

[Zao is life]

How do you interpret this verse:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How can Paul refer to "your whole spirit" if the spirit "isn’t inherently part of us"?

Do you think that the souls of the dead in Christ in heaven are separate from their spirits?

Paul said sanctify you wholly. He did not follow that up with, "I pray God (that) your whole spirit, and your whole soul and your whole body be preserved blameless as your contention implies. He used the word whole once for all three, which goes with what he had just said about God sanctifying each individual wholly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul said sanctify you wholly. He did not follow that up with, "I pray God (that) your whole spirit, and your whole soul and your whole body be preserved blameless as your contention implies. He used the word whole once for all three, which goes with what he had just said about God sanctifying each individual wholly.

What is your point? Yes, we are wholly made up of body, soul and spirit. How does that prove that the soul and spirit cannot be alive (zao) apart from the body? Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8) and indicated that is something better than remaining alive in the body. Why would he say that if we are no longer alive (zao) at all when we are absent from the body and present with the Lord?

 

[Jay Ross]

You can really feel the Love in these thread about prophecy and the End Times.

The love shown in "I am right, but you are wrong" statements flowing from the many different perspectives put forward.

There comes a time when our silence is golden and good for our health.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

That only reveals that you do not understand that because the Spirit of God is omnipresent and remained with and in Christ and with and in the Father before our Lord's death, He (the Spirit) remained with and in the Father and with Christ's soul when His soul went to hades.

I actually agreed... with you on that, which shows you didn't actually read... my post. So forget what I wrote to you. I'm not interested in your response.

 

[Zao is life]

That actually reveals that you don't quite understand the difference between our 'spirit', and our 'soul', vs. our flesh body (Hebrews 4:12; Ecclesiastes 12:5-7; Matthew 10:28).

The whole Heavenly dimension is made up of Spirit. That is where God as a Spirit created all things from, through His Son Jesus Christ (Hebrew 1; John 4:24).

True, that Jesus' Spirit as God The Son remained with Him while He was in the flesh. That's actually what is meant by Matthew 1:23 with His Name of "Immanuel" from Isaiah 7, which means 'God with us'.

That only reveals that you do not understand that because the Spirit of God is omnipresent and remained with and in Christ and with and in the Father before our Lord's death, He (the Spirit) remained with and in the Father and with Christ's soul when His soul went to hades.

Jesus did not have to "go places" to "go" to the Father in order for the Spirit to remain with Him. "Going" to be with the Father needed a body to accomplish, and the first time He "went" to be with the Father following His crucifixion was when He did so BODILY.

I actually agreed... with you on that, which shows you didn't actually read... my post. So forget what I wrote to you. I'm not interested in your response.

Rather don't try to make yourself look clever at my or anyone else's expense in future. It makes it worse for you.

You would not have stated that I don't understand ... the very point I was making, and you would not have mentioned about when Christ was still in the flesh, if you were agreeing with the point I was making

.. and the point was: I was disputing with @ewq1938 his assertion that Jesus first "went back to God the Father" before He went down to hades.

You would not respond to my post either if you were not interested in my response.

Just don't respond if you're not interest

Rather don't try to make yourself look clever at my or anyone else's expense in future. It makes it worse for you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Great to see such unity amongst Premils.