Difficulty Reconciling

[GracePeace]

Oddly OSAS—that's good, that is. Odd, I guess because it seems like a surprisingly and refreshingly balanced take on the biblical doctrine of assurance.

You really do have some of the most thoughtful threads.

That's going to get you in a lot of trouble, you know.

I just can't seem to avoid getting off topic.

You started it this time.

I think.

Hope you enjoy and are edified!
"Odd" : bc it simultaneously affirms and denies OSAS.

 

[Grailhunter]

Oddly OSAS—that's good, that is. Odd, I guess because it seems like a surprisingly and refreshingly balanced take on the biblical doctrine of assurance.

You really do have some of the most thoughtful threads.

That's going to get you in a lot of trouble, you know.

I just can't seem to avoid getting off topic.

You started it this time.

I think.

Balanced? More like demon juggling.

Oddly OSAS—that's good, that is. Odd, I guess because it seems like a surprisingly and refreshingly balanced take on the biblical doctrine of assurance.

You really do have some of the most thoughtful threads.

That's going to get you in a lot of trouble, you know.

I just can't seem to avoid getting off topic.

You started it this time.

I think.

Are we talking to guy or a gal?

Here is the deal….This person seems to be all about love. But we have Heaven and we have Hell. What if??? What if GracePeace is a really good person? What does OSAS do to him or her. All so filled of love for Christ….all roses and good feelings. It will probably turn out for him or her. But what if she shares her religion with a few people.

You see Christianity is about change. Repentance is a process of setting an old life behind and starting a new life. But if some one with lesser character takes on a religion incorporates the belief that no matter what you do if you have faith you are saved. Why change? You might have a person that continues to go on from one sexual partner to another and never changes. Or swindles people or belongs to gang…..why change?

OSAS is definitely not at home in the scriptures because morality is a focus in the scripture…..or is evil in Heaven what we got to look forward to? You are sitting at the Heavenly banquet and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on your arm because he is cannibal. While a gal at the end of the table is being raped. If ask what they are doing they pull out their OSAS card that says they have a licence to sin. Sometimes you have to put things in motion to see if they fly.

GracePeace seems to be a person that formulates his or her beliefs by singling out scriptures she likes but in this case she found a couple seeming contradictory scriptures she could not shake. So she brought up the question of reconciling.

 

[GracePeace]

Are we talking to guy or a gal?

Guy

Here is the deal….This person seems to be all about love. But we have Heaven and we have Hell. What if??? What if GracePeace is a really good person? What does OSAS do to him or her. All so filled of love for Christ….all roses and good feelings. It will probably turn out for him or her. But what if she shares her religion with a few people.

You see Christianity is about change. Repentance is a process of setting an old life behind and starting a new life. But if some one with lesser character takes on a religion incorporates the belief that no matter what you do if you have faith you are saved. Why change? You might have a person that continues to go on from one sexual partner to another and never changes. Or swindles people or belongs to gang…..why change?

OSAS is definitely not at home in the scriptures because morality is a focus in the scripture…..or is evil in Heaven what we got to look forward to? You are sitting at the Heavenly banquet and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on your arm because he is cannibal. While a gal at the end of the table is being raped. If ask what they are doing they pull out their OSAS card that says they have a licence to sin. Sometimes you have to put things in motion to see if they fly.

GracePeace seems to be a person that formulates his or her beliefs by singling out scriptures she likes but in this case she found a couple seeming contradictory scriptures she could not shake. So she brought up the question of reconciling.

It would be best to get in to "Oddly OSAS" on the "Oddly OSAS" thread--and only after having read a little of what is meant by "Oddly OSAS", so that you do not run afoul of Proverbs 18:13.

 

[Grailhunter]

Guy

It would be best to get in to "Oddly OSAS" on the "Oddly OSAS" thread--and only after having read a little of what is meant by "Oddly OSAS", so that you do not run afoul of Proverbs 18:13.

No I think I hit the nail on the head.

 

[GracePeace]

No I think I hit the nail on the head.

Sounds good. Have a blessed day!

 

[BarneyFife]

Balanced? More like demon juggling.

Hard to believe you didn't detect any nuanced themes of assurance from it. Well, hardly hard, anyway.

Here is the deal….This person seems to be all about love. But we have Heaven and we have Hell. What if??? What if GracePeace is a really good person? What does OSAS do to him or her. All so filled of love for Christ….all roses and good feelings.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that 1 John 4 is not one of your favorite chapters in the Bible—especially verse 8?

Heaven might be a really uncomfortable place for folks who can't/won't exegete "God is love."

:

 

[BarneyFife]

Guy

It would be best to get in to "Oddly OSAS" on the "Oddly OSAS" thread--and only after having read a little of what is meant by "Oddly OSAS", so that you do not run afoul of Proverbs 18:13.

You kids and your fancy Proverbs 18:13s.

 

[BarneyFife]

HHS head RFK Jr will be forced to make a public statement on the issue.

Right after he gets the governor of W. Virginia reduced to half his weight on The Carnivore Diet.

Bring Back MickeyD's Fries Cooked In Beef Tallow!

(I actually love Bobby but he's kinda nuts.)

 

[BarneyFife]

Balanced? More like demon juggling.


Are we talking to guy or a gal?

Here is the deal….This person seems to be all about love. But we have Heaven and we have Hell. What if??? What if GracePeace is a really good person? What does OSAS do to him or her. All so filled of love for Christ….all roses and good feelings. It will probably turn out for him or her. But what if she shares her religion with a few people.

You see Christianity is about change. Repentance is a process of setting an old life behind and starting a new life. But if some one with lesser character takes on a religion incorporates the belief that no matter what you do if you have faith you are saved. Why change? You might have a person that continues to go on from one sexual partner to another and never changes. Or swindles people or belongs to gang…..why change?

OSAS is definitely not at home in the scriptures because morality is a focus in the scripture…..or is evil in Heaven what we got to look forward to? You are sitting at the Heavenly banquet and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on your arm because he is cannibal. While a gal at the end of the table is being raped. If ask what they are doing they pull out their OSAS card that says they have a licence to sin. Sometimes you have to put things in motion to see if they fly.

GracePeace seems to be a person that formulates his or her beliefs by singling out scriptures she likes but in this case she found a couple seeming contradictory scriptures she could not shake. So she brought up the question of reconciling.

By the way, I love your lectures!

 

[BarneyFife]

No I think I hit the nail on the head.

That's shocking!

 

[GracePeace]

Hard to believe you didn't detect any nuanced themes of assurance from it. Well, hardly hard, anyway.



I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that 1 John 4 is not one of your favorite chapters in the Bible—especially verse 8?

Heaven might be a really uncomfortable place for folks who can't/won't exegete "God is love."

:

I tried really hard to honor what was written--both sides of the coin... probably better to discuss further over there than here.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hard to believe you didn't detect any nuanced themes of assurance from it. Well, hardly hard, anyway.



I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that 1 John 4 is not one of your favorite chapters in the Bible—especially verse 8?

Heaven might be a really uncomfortable place for folks who can't/won't exegete "God is love."

:

For sure love is a big thing with God. Give your son to go through what Yeshua went through. There would have to be a good reason.

And I do like John. And that is my point you cannot go into the scriptures to find what you like or want to believe. You will come up with something, but it will not be the truth. The style of the writing in that time period sometimes confuses people and leads them the wrong direction because some scriptures seem to be absolutes….and some people take them and build a religion on selected scriptures.

For example “the Word”….Logos….I have questions and do wonder about it because the Logos was a Greek philosophical concept 6 centuries before Christ. As in more or less a cosmic intelligence. But I do not disregard scriptures about the Word. Scriptures as a whole.

Christians or some Christians do not like education, even Christian education. And what does it take to truly understand scriptures that were written 2000 years ago. Linguistics far deeper than your average resource material. Extremely knowledgable of the scriptures in the context of the time period and the circumstances that they were written. But to know all that requires education and study….I am theologian formally educated in 5 countries and I attend many churches and many denominations. Why many denominations? Because I know none of them are perfect and have some serious errors and I am more interested in worshipping the Lord with Christians and enjoy their different point of views.

And Christianity did not die at the last page of the Bible. No one tied God up and gagged Him. God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit was involved with and working with Christianity to improve it and Christians.

The changes since early Christianity.
That is why we require wedding ceremonies to be married now.
Why polygamy and concubinage and slavery was more or less outlawed.
Women are no longer property and have rights.
We do not buy our brides and fathers do not choose their daughter's husbands.

 

[GracePeace]

Right after he gets the governor of W. Virginia reduced to half his weight on The Carnivore Diet.

Bring Back MickeyD's Fries Cooked In Beef Tallow!

(I actually love Bobby but he's kinda nuts.)

Yeah, RFK Jr could get him to lose weight by getting him addicted to crack cocaine--it doesn't mean it's healthy! LOL!

 

[GracePeace]

Heaven might be a really uncomfortable place for folks who can't/won't exegete "God is love."

It's a difficult one for me.
It's easy to say "Yes, God is love," but living that fully is something else.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's a difficult one for me.
It's easy to say "Yes, God is love," but living that fully is something else.

Just spend more time beholding it.

 

[PS95]

If only he would just pull himself up by his own bootstraps and simply believe in Jesus, am I right?

:

Hi Barney, It's been a while. I haven't been on here in quite some time. You are SDA, right?

Are you mocking me? Surely, you have read all of my posts on this thread to Grace Peace before commenting. I think I was very clear in saying that obedience follows true faith. Perhaps you should take the time to read all that I've written.
Grace Peace was clear in saying that he believes that God is saying to him that he is trying to save himself. We all know that's not possible, don't we? I was there once and felt the need to share what I have learned. It's a dark place to be as i could relate. Isn't that what love does?

Also, Grace Peace said that God kept pointing him to the cross. That's yet another one that I understood having been raised a Jw- where they do not teach of forgiveness of our personal sins at calvary- but only Adams' sin.
In learning about the love of Christ at calvary for us and that includes me-- I was struck by His selfless love so much that I desired to obey Him with all of my being. So it's is not just a head knowledge that saves but a deep deep love for Him because He first loved me.
If you take issue what all that I have written don't just mock me or be cryptic- say so. Take care now.

 

[PS95]

Guys, thanks for your interactions.
Ever since I learned that I need to make sure to not let my heart be troubled, this conversation has been troubling me--likely because it was out of having been troubled at heart that I initiated the discussion. So if I keep trying to make the point I made when I was troubled, it will cause me to retain my trouble-heartedness.
It may be that I can return to the discussion in the future without being troubled, but, for now, it is subtracting from my not allowing my heart to be troubled.
So, au revoir for now!

That's so good to read GP! I will be keeping you in my prayers. Never lose heart.

 

[GracePeace]

That's so good to read GP! I will be keeping you in my prayers. Never lose heart.

I want to say I still believe faith is incomplete, and must be completed by works, but I think the first way to align works with your faith is by resting from your own trying to do what Christ already did--rest from works done in fear that are done to save yourself / reconcile yourself to God. Do not deny Christ, or contradict your faith in the Gospel, by trying to do what you claim He already did.

I had prayed about getting the right mind together with the right works that complete my faith (bc faith is incomplete without works and cannot justify), and that was the result.

I experienced the closeness of Jesus, the goodness of Jesus, immediately after this, but, of course, I lost it. Lol
I have not mastered this truth. I hate myself.

 

[PS95]

I want to say I still believe faith is incomplete, and must be completed by works, but I think the first way to align works with your faith is by resting from your own trying to do what Christ already did--rest from works done in fear that are done to save yourself / reconcile yourself to God. Do not deny Christ, or contradict your faith in the Gospel, by trying to do what you claim He already did.

I had prayed about getting the right mind together with the right works that complete my faith (bc faith is incomplete without works and cannot justify), and that was the result.

I experienced the closeness of Jesus, the goodness of Jesus, immediately after this, but, of course, I lost it. Lol
I have not mastered this truth. I hate myself.

I agree with you- faith and works go together. It is the motive for the good works that matters. Works can't save you - as we simply can not save ourselves no matter how hard we try! Jesus saves. We don't want to think otherwise or take his rightful place! We are not our own Savior. How absurd, right?
Once we receive that indescribable gift of grace, the works don't come out of fear of failing- but out gratitude and joy & peace in what He has done. So, yes rest from your works and be at peace in his grace- and when it's time to walk in good works that are prepared for you- walk in them asking Him to be with you to help you.

Don't hate yourself- lol you aren't alone there. Just remain in the faith and His presence will come and go. I hate it too. It's how it is though. But He is never not there. That much I am sure of. Pray often. He hears you and He cares for you. Sometimes he lets us stew and I think we learn patience. I am certain that I am always learning, sometimes it's not fast enough for me- again patience. He feeds us as he sees fit.
He knows what's best for me. When I think I know better I go outside and look at creation- the sky- the trees- the birds- the moon and stars etc., and I remember who I am questioning. Yikes.-- And I end up praising Him for His creation. He calls it this handiwork. haha can u imagine?
When I begin prayer by "entering His gates with thanksgiving" my worries diminish. Praise him for His love first off- Jesus!-, praise him for nature, even for a hot shower, the soap, your eyes and legs and arms, and teeth etc. In my experience it really gives us pause, and sets our priorities straight. Then pray for your needs. It really helps me. The joy of the Lord your strength.

"Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice." Phil 4:4

“Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid; for the Lord God is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation.” Isa 12:2

"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope."
Ro 15:13

 

[GracePeace]

I agree with you- faith and works go together. It is the motive for the good works that matters. Works can't save you - as we simply can not save ourselves no matter how hard we try! Jesus saves. We don't want to think otherwise or take his rightful place! We are not our own Savior. How absurd, right?
Once we receive that indescribable gift of grace, the works don't come out of fear of failing- but out gratitude and joy & peace in what He has done. So, yes rest from your works and be at peace in his grace- and when it's time to walk in good works that are prepared for you- walk in them asking Him to be with you to help you.

Don't hate yourself- lol you aren't alone there. Just remain in the faith and His presence will come and go. I hate it too. It's how it is though. But He is never not there. That much I am sure of. Pray often. He hears you and He cares for you. Sometimes he lets us stew and I think we learn patience. I am certain that I am always learning, sometimes it's not fast enough for me- again patience. He feeds us as he sees fit.
He knows what's best for me. When I think I know better I go outside and look at creation- the sky- the trees- the birds- the moon and stars etc., and I remember who I am questioning. Yikes.-- And I end up praising Him for His creation. He calls it this handiwork. haha can u imagine?
When I begin prayer by "entering His gates with thanksgiving" my worries diminish. Praise him for His love first off- Jesus!-, praise him for nature, even for a hot shower, the soap, your eyes and legs and arms, and teeth etc. In my experience it really gives us pause, and sets our priorities straight. Then pray for your needs. It really helps me. The joy of the Lord your strength.

"Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice." Phil 4:4

“Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid; for the Lord God is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation.” Isa 12:2

"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope."
Ro 15:13

I gotta pray more often! It's a bit stressful just thinking about what I will miss out on if not!