Even when we differ, it is a nice change to speak with people who aren't flaming one another (eg, "you're in a cult", ect, etc, etc) @PS95 @Grailhunter @CadyandZoe so let's maintain that.
Difficulty Reconciling
- Thread starter GracePeace
- Start date
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PS95
Well-Known Member
I am absolutely respecting the text. You are reading INTO the text. Jesus had not even been crucified yet! Peter denied Christ 3 times and was forgiven, yet you do not allow those men to be forgiven after how they reacted at His crucifixion ? Seriously? John did not condemn them to eternal loss- ONLY YOU ARE.
You certainly did add to the text. You have judged their eternal fate. Utter nonsense.
I imagine you mean "loves" and not" knives" or would I be assuming too much? You see taking all of scripture as a whole is helpful, but you want to limit people so NO answer that makes sense with the scriptures is allowable to you. You are being utterly ridiculous here. John says nothing of the sort there. He is comparing the unbelieving Jews as quoted in Isaiah with cowardly believing Jews. NOWHERE does it say that they never repented. You do not know who they were or what happened after Jesus was crucified! I gave you a possible scenario because Nicodemus and Joseph were "rulers or authorities" who were Jewish and who also displayed some belief along with fear of man. THAT CHANGED at the crucifixion of Jesus. His crucifixion tears our hearts open- a circumcision of the heart, if you will. This is precisely why I keep pointing you to the cross. Your heart is still hard. Ask God to tear it out and give you a heart of flesh. I did!
The point here is that no one knows for certain who those men were that John spoke of. John does not give any details. He only brought it up because of the CONTEXT of Isaiah. He was making a point- see the first word of verse 42? the word "nevertheless", He is telling us that many Jews did not believe but some did. Yet they still had fears. THAT is all John says.
Could they be forgiven? YES. Peter was. There is no justification to be of the firm opinion that they did not repent. None. John never said that. ONLY You are.
you must remember that new believers fall all of the time. That is how we learn to rely on Him solely and not on themselves. You also keep forgetting that Jesus had not yet been crucified. That convinced many who were not totally sure.
I am just reading the text. You are reading into it what your hard heart wants to see. Do you suppose that a new believer never messes up and repents and is forgiven? Sounds like you expect everyone who first believes to suddenly become perfect. that is not reality nor is it biblical.
It is not apples and oranges at all. They both denied Christ out of fear. Who made you their judge?
go back and read thru my posts to you and what I continue to note about you and what I'm asking you to do about it. Therein you will find what is at the "heart" of all of this.
It seems that you lack love for the Lord. You see him as condemning others, unforgiving, and not understanding how weak we are in the flesh. That is why we are to learn walk in the spirit. I don't see you as doing that yet. I have been trying to get to the root of your problem here. You seem to be resisting me and I don't know why. Are you seeking to be right or are you seeking His face?
I will keep you in my prayers for now. Take care.
Guys, thanks for your interactions.
Ever since I learned that I need to make sure to not let my heart be troubled, this conversation has been troubling me--likely because it was out of having been troubled at heart that I initiated the discussion. So if I keep trying to make the point I made when I was troubled, it will cause me to retain my trouble-heartedness.
It may be that I can return to the discussion in the future without being troubled, but, for now, it is subtracting from my not allowing my heart to be troubled.
So, au revoir for now!
Ever since I learned that I need to make sure to not let my heart be troubled, this conversation has been troubling me--likely because it was out of having been troubled at heart that I initiated the discussion. So if I keep trying to make the point I made when I was troubled, it will cause me to retain my trouble-heartedness.
It may be that I can return to the discussion in the future without being troubled, but, for now, it is subtracting from my not allowing my heart to be troubled.
So, au revoir for now!
PS95
Well-Known Member
See post 458
Feel free to msg me if you want to. I am well aware of what they teach.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Presumably, you are talking about Romans 11, and in that context, the "branches" are not individuals; they represent generations. Paul is essentially saying, "Yes, this generation of Israel are not believers. This is the time when Gentiles are grafted to the promise. But in the future, after the full number of Gentiles are saved, the Gentiles will be cut off, and Israel will be grafted back on to the tree."
Some might contend that in our contemporary world, the Spirit of God appears to have withdrawn from the Gentiles, especially as the tide of postmodernism continues to gain momentum and influence. However, there is a glimmer of hope as the Hebrew people begin to awaken to their spiritual heritage and identity. This moment of renewal suggests that the world is undergoing a profound transformation, as old paradigms shift and new understandings emerge.
The discussion centers on John's writings, and I was alluding to John 15.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
If only he would just pull himself up by his own bootstraps and simply believe in Jesus, am I right?
:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
For the record I did not say you were in a cult. But if you believe in Once Saved Always Saved.....you are in Satan's wheel house.....one of his favorites.....quota of souls going to hell;.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I can only speak for myself, but I'd rather be in Satan's Wheel House than in a cult any day. Anything but a cult!
:
No, I didn't mean you said that. I was referring to someone else.
That said, there are people on this thread who believe in OSAS and I don't think it is necessary to denigrate them based on that (if this thread had been about OSAS, I would encourage people to bring their arguments from Scripture, but not cross over to describing their opponents in less than positive ways).
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Your rigid nature will serve to frustrate you on this forum.
It's not conducive to edification to get frustrated and describe others negatively.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The only thing I can think of that would be worse is an "OSAS" cult in Satan's Wheel House! If there's a better way to say "I'm right so you must be wrong," I certainly can't imagine it (but I'll bet somebody already has).
Sorry; I'll stop now.
:)
Someone who is OSAS said I was in a cult because I was not OSAS (though I am OSAS, but "Oddly OSAS"). lol
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Oddly OSAS—that's good, that is. Odd, I guess because it seems like a surprisingly and refreshingly balanced take on the biblical doctrine of assurance.
You really do have some of the most thoughtful threads.
That's going to get you in a lot of trouble, you know.
I just can't seem to avoid getting off topic.
You started it this time.
I think.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
