The problem with "Free Palestine"

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Jericho

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I see this motto a lot on social media. It's used to express support for Palestinian self-determination and opposition to Israeli occupation or control over Palestinian territories, but it ignores history. There's been a very long history of rejecting Palestinian self-determination, and not by Israel. Since the Peel Commission's partition plan of 1937, there have been at least a dozen offers to create a state for the Palestinians on part of Israel and alongside Israel. Every offer has been accepted by Israel but rejected by the Arab world, including Palestinian leaders.

In 2000, at Camp David, Israel offered to withdraw from 97% of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip, dismantle most of the settlements, and create a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. The only concessions Arafat had to make were to acknowledge Israeli sovereignty over parts of the Western Wall and agree to three early warning stations in the Jordan Valley, which Israel would withdraw from in six years. Arafat rejected this offer and instead started an Intifada.

Israel did unilaterally withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005, even forcibly removing Israeli settlers in the process. At that point, they were already semi-autonomous. That was the first step in creating a two-state solution, but it was quickly derailed. The first thing they did was elect Hamas and launch thousands of rockets into Israel over the next three years. Eventually, that led to Operation Cast Lead in 2008.

Despite this, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert extended a peace proposal to Abbas that would create two nation-states. Under the plan Israel would have withdrawn from almost the entire West Bank and partitioned Jerusalem on a demographic basis. Abbas rejected the offer of the two-state solution, as they would have had to recognize Israel as a state.

From 2008 to 2022 there have been five wars/operations due to attacks by Hamas. That ultimately culminated in the October 7th, 2023 massacre by Hamas that pretty much ended any chances of a two-state solution. There was an internal poll conducted that showed three in four Palestinians (a whopping 72%) supported the Oct. 7th attack. These are the same people too, by the way, who celebrated the 9/11 attack on the U.S. A basic premise of independence is being able to coexist with your neighbor, and they have shown zero willingness to do so.

Just aside from all that, the people in Gaza are heavily dependent on other countries to survive, especially Israel. Just about all their power comes from Israel. They do have one power plant, but the fuel it runs on is also imported by Israel. About 90% of their water is undrinkable due to high salinity and nitrate pollution. Israel supplies some of their drinking water through pipelines. Most of their food is imported from Israel. All that is to say, they have no infrastructure, especially since the war, to be self-sufficient and independent. And that is the problem with "Free Palestine."
 

soberxp

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This is a difficult problem, hatred has been formed between the two races, no matter who is right or wrong, unless all have accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The teaching of Jesus Christ is no longer an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth Only in the Old Testament and pass away.

Love your Neighbor as yourself.
Love others as yourself.
 

lforrest

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And Israel is convicted of war crimes in international court because Hamas uses their civilians as cover. The international courts are a joke. What is to stop leaders of such countries from committing actual war crimes now?
 
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soberxp

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And Israel is convicted of war crimes in international court because Hamas uses their civilians as cover. The international courts are a joke. What is to stop leaders of such countries from committing actual war crimes now?
Proverbs.
25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
25:22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.
 

Wrangler

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This is a difficult problem

<sigh> It's not difficult at all. Ronald Reagan famously said, "The experts tell us the solutions to our problems are complicated. The experts are wrong. The solutions are simple. They're just not easy."

WWI did not end with a peace treaty but a ceasefire. The Islamic Jihadi's are not accepting the results of the Great War, which they lost. This loss, starting with the Balfour Declaration and WWII, creating the UN, who created Israel solidifies this loss. So, the resumption of world war is called for. Choices are:
A. Die in war or​
B. live with the peace terms.​

Simple.
Proverbs.
25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
25:22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.
This enemy is a personal enemy, not applicable to political obligations owed to the State. It is treason to give a political enemy aid and comfort. Let's keep it real.
 
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soberxp

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<sigh> It's not difficult at all. Ronald Reagan famously said, "The experts tell us the solutions to our problems are complicated. The experts are wrong. The solutions are simple. They're just not easy."

WWI did not end with a peace treaty but a ceasefire. The Islamic Jihadi's are not accepting the results of the Great War, which they lost. This loss, starting with the Balfour Declaration and WWII, creating the UN, who created Israel solidifies this loss. So, the resumption of world war is called for. Choices are:
A. Die in war or​
B. live with the peace terms.​

Simple.

This enemy is a personal enemy, not applicable to political obligations owed to the State. It is treason to give a political enemy aid and comfort. Let's keep it real.
These are secular views, which I do not accept.
I have always believed in the Word of God, which is more useful than the reason of the secular people.
 

Wrangler

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Ronald Nolette

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I see this motto a lot on social media. It's used to express support for Palestinian self-determination and opposition to Israeli occupation or control over Palestinian territories, but it ignores history. There's been a very long history of rejecting Palestinian self-determination, and not by Israel. Since the Peel Commission's partition plan of 1937, there have been at least a dozen offers to create a state for the Palestinians on part of Israel and alongside Israel. Every offer has been accepted by Israel but rejected by the Arab world, including Palestinian leaders.

In 2000, at Camp David, Israel offered to withdraw from 97% of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip, dismantle most of the settlements, and create a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. The only concessions Arafat had to make were to acknowledge Israeli sovereignty over parts of the Western Wall and agree to three early warning stations in the Jordan Valley, which Israel would withdraw from in six years. Arafat rejected this offer and instead started an Intifada.

Israel did unilaterally withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005, even forcibly removing Israeli settlers in the process. At that point, they were already semi-autonomous. That was the first step in creating a two-state solution, but it was quickly derailed. The first thing they did was elect Hamas and launch thousands of rockets into Israel over the next three years. Eventually, that led to Operation Cast Lead in 2008.

Despite this, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert extended a peace proposal to Abbas that would create two nation-states. Under the plan Israel would have withdrawn from almost the entire West Bank and partitioned Jerusalem on a demographic basis. Abbas rejected the offer of the two-state solution, as they would have had to recognize Israel as a state.

From 2008 to 2022 there have been five wars/operations due to attacks by Hamas. That ultimately culminated in the October 7th, 2023 massacre by Hamas that pretty much ended any chances of a two-state solution. There was an internal poll conducted that showed three in four Palestinians (a whopping 72%) supported the Oct. 7th attack. These are the same people too, by the way, who celebrated the 9/11 attack on the U.S. A basic premise of independence is being able to coexist with your neighbor, and they have shown zero willingness to do so.

Just aside from all that, the people in Gaza are heavily dependent on other countries to survive, especially Israel. Just about all their power comes from Israel. They do have one power plant, but the fuel it runs on is also imported by Israel. About 90% of their water is undrinkable due to high salinity and nitrate pollution. Israel supplies some of their drinking water through pipelines. Most of their food is imported from Israel. All that is to say, they have no infrastructure, especially since the war, to be self-sufficient and independent. And that is the problem with "Free Palestine."
The biggest problem is that there never was a Palestinian state in history, nor an ethnic Palestinian people. they are an amalgam of Arab nationalities and the land was under varied control by different nations since the Diaspora that concluded in 135 AD.
 

soberxp

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Jericho

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This is a difficult problem, hatred has been formed between the two races, no matter who is right or wrong, unless all have accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ.

That's partly true. They're both related and it goes back to Genesis 16:12. It's an intergenerational family feud between the children of Abraham. Ultimately, God himself will have to settle this matter.


The teaching of Jesus Christ is no longer an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth Only in the Old Testament and pass away.

Love your Neighbor as yourself.
Love others as yourself.

While I don't disagree with your sentiment, you're dealing with people who are not Christian. We shouldn't expect non-Christians to behave as Christians. Nations also reserve the right to defend themselves. One day we will beat our swords into ploughshares but that day is not today.
 
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lforrest

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While I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, you're dealing with people who are not Christian. We shouldn't expect non-Christians to behave as Christians.
Even in a Christian society laws should not be merciful to criminals. This leads to lawlessness among those who are evil and take advantage of relaxed laws. And victims do not get justice. If there is mercy, let it be at the discretion of the court, not predetermined.

Individuals win souls, government agencies do not.
 
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soberxp

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While I don't disagree with your sentiment, you're dealing with people who are not Christian. We shouldn't expect non-Christians to behave as Christians. Nations also reserve the right to defend themselves. One day we will beat our swords into ploughshares but that day is not today.
I know God loves Israel dearly, but Israel's heart is hard,When will they learn that the teachings of Jesus Christ are more useful than war and weapons?
That's partly true. They're both related and it goes back to Genesis 16:12. It's an intergenerational family feud between the children of Abraham. Ultimately, God himself will have to settle this matter.
Yes,see above.
 

Behold

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Be not deceived.........
=
Islam does not want peace..as Islam is not a religion of peace.
In fact, their "coming Messiah"...their "Mahdi".......is literally the Christian Anti-Christ.
Islam's "paradise".. Islam's "Heaven" according to their Quran'... is literally a whorehouse in the sky, where 60+ "virgins" are waiting to please all incoming Islamic Terrorists who have died killing Jews or Americans........or anyone they can, who is not a Muslim.
-
 
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soberxp

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Be not deceived.........
=
Islam does not want peace..as Islam is not a religion of peace.
In fact, their "coming Messiah"...their "Mahdi".......is literally the Christian Anti-Christ.
Islam's "paradise".. Islam's "Heaven" according to their Quran'... is literally a whorehouse in the sky, where 60+ "virgins" are waiting to please all incoming Islamic Terrorists who have died killing Jews or Americans........or anyone they can, who is not a Muslim.
-
Islam the name is meaning "peace" if I am right.
So those crazy extremists don't really believe in the Koran,right? Who is not a Muslim, then they killed themself in anyway, such as Suicide bomber.
Right?

Love your enemy, give them bread of Jesus Christ,when they hungry. Give them water of Jesus Christ,when they Thirsty.

At least, Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet.
 

lforrest

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Islam the name is meaning "peace" if I am right.
So those crazy extremists don't really believe in the Koran,right? Who is not a Muslim, then they killed themself in anyway, such as Suicide bomber.
Right?

Love your enemy, give them bread of Jesus Christ,when they hungry. Give them water of Jesus Christ,when they Thirsty.

At least, Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet.
Islam is of the devil. Like all lies there is just enough truth to make it appear legitimate. And enough falsehood to further the goal of the devil to lure people away from the cross and into damnation. It is no coincidence that Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus but rejects that he is the Son of God. It is written "whoever denies the Son denies the Father."

Did you know that the Quran twists scripture to say Ishmael is the legitimate son of Abraham and not Isaac. Seems like an effective way to lure Ishmael's supposed descendants to your cause. (Correction they believe Ishmael was taken to be sacrificed not Isaac.)

Did you know that the archangel Gabriel supposedly appeared to Mohamed to teach him the Quran? It is also written 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
 
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Behold

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So those crazy extremists don't really believe in the Koran,right?

The Quran' is a wicked book...... and it turns Muslims into fanaticl homicidal maniac's.

Let me share something with you about the "HOLY" Quran..

The bible has VERSES, and the Quran has "Suras"...

One of these says that its : """"" OK TO LIE.......if the LIE furthers the cause of "Allah and Islam"......... In other words.......the HOLY Quran teaches that its OK to lie if you are doing it for "Allah" to try to spread Islam Globally.

Can you imagine the Father of Jesus......telling Christians its "ok to lie,so that you can spread Christianity.""""

And here is one more for you, @soberxp ....

In CHRISTianity......God gave His Son for us all... John 3:16

In ISLAM, "allah", requires that you give your son to Him., and that is why Muslim's blow themselves up, trying to kill Jews, and anyone else who isn't a Muslim.
 
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Wick Stick

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The biggest problem is that there never was a Palestinian state in history, nor an ethnic Palestinian people.
Gen 10:13-14 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, and Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.

Philistine and Palestine are the same word. The Philistines clearly exist as a people in the Bible.
they are an amalgam of Arab nationalities and the land was under varied control by different nations since the Diaspora that concluded in 135 AD.
You're right on this one - the people living there are NOT their descendants. They are actually just descendants of the same old Canaanites that Israel was instructed to wipe out.

From Grok:

Studies, such as those analyzing ancient DNA from archaeological sites in the region, show continuity between Bronze Age populations (like the Canaanites) and modern Levantine peoples, including Palestinians. A 2019 study published in The American Journal of Human Genetics found that modern populations in the Levant, including Palestinians, Lebanese, and Jordanians, share a substantial portion of their ancestry with these ancient inhabitants, with some additional input from Arabian Peninsula populations after the rise of Islam.
The historical Philistines were wiped out a very long time ago. History records that when the Romans arrived there in the 1st century to conquer it, the settlements were already destroyed and nobody was living there.