Difficulty Reconciling

[CadyandZoe]

Actually, "the old man of sin is crucified with Christ" and a Christian is a New Creation.. so, that is a "divine Nature" as Peter explains.., that the born again has now......and does not have to wait for it..

To deny that I am evil and a sinner is to deny my own existence. The transformative experience is a hope now, that will be fulfilled in the future. In the meantime, Paul argues that those who believe and hope in the Gospel will no longer serve unrighteousness but righteousness.

What you said, reveals that when you try to explain why a Christian is confessing sin... then you are going to prove you are very confused, theologically.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Actually the only "Christian Rule", that we are to keep is "LOVE"... so, your rules are not that... and so, your rules are self effort.

I am defining "Legalism" as "Christian Phariseeism", which seeks God's favor by keeping the rules. People make up their own rules or they are handed a set of rules by their church, such as "Don't smoke. Don't Dance. Don't go to the movies. Don't kiss a girl. Pay your tithes. Pray once a day. Read the Bible. Give to the poor. Tip your waitress 20%. We could multiply the rules, but I think you get the point.

Living in the hope of the Gospel prompts believers to reflect deeply on several crucial questions that shape their spiritual journey. Firstly, one must consider what true obedience entails in their daily life. This includes examining how to align one’s actions, choices, and attitudes with the teachings of Christ and understanding the significance of following His example.

Additionally, believers often wonder how to discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit amidst the many voices and influences in their lives. This may involve recognizing the subtle nudges and confirmations that lead them toward decisions that resonate with their faith and values.

Another fundamental question revolves around what it really means to live out righteousness, peacefulness, and humility in a world that often promotes the opposite. One must explore how to embody these virtues in challenging situations and relationships, and how they can reflect God's character in their interactions with others.

Finally, believers are encouraged to contemplate the nature of bearing spiritual fruit in their lives. This means understanding what evidence of spiritual growth looks like, such as love, joy, kindness, and self-control, and recognizing how these traits can manifest in both personal character and community relationships. Each of these reflective questions contributes to a deeper understanding of living in accordance with the Gospel’s transformative hope.

 

[Behold]

Do you believe that your empty denials prove your lies true?

See if you can follow this...
-
No matter the sin.........Jesus on The Cross has become this.. for the BELIEVER.. = Born Again.

1.) "God hath made Jesus.. to BE SIN....for us"..

2.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... ETERNAL.......SACRIFICE...for sin".

This means that all sin for all time is dealt with, by JESUS's Sacrifice.... and therefore God's justice is eternally satisfied.

And here is where the Believer's mind gets blown, as this is the part of "the Gift of Salvation" that offends the flesh and the self righteousness in a Believer.
And the truth is.. .the more prideful and self righteous you are, the more this will offend your point of view, and your opinion, that is your self righteousness, regarding your lack of understanding regarding God's "GIFT of Salvation."

Now, you milage is going to vary, regarding what im going to teach you.. .so, some will say..>"of course" and others who have the issue will not want to see God's Grace....

Notice...

The born again are "not under the Law".. ."but under Grace".

That means, that the born again, have RECEIVED a finished salvation and eternal life....that is not based on how you behave.

And that offends the flesh........as the flesh wants to say...>>"""now look everyone... and see what im doing, so that i can say that God's Salvation, is partly based on ME ME ME ME".

See that? That is SELF Righteousness, that is denying Jesus full credit for saving you and keeping you saved. And most Christians, have that "carnal mind" "in the flesh"..issue and want to fight about what they have to do, to stay saved and stay forgiven., so that they can take some CREDIT instead of Giving Jesus all the CREDIT due Him alone, for saving you and keeping you saved.

Now, a vital understanding regarding the finished work of Jesus on The Cross is it produced this for you.... = You are...."no longer under the LAW".

So....You have to understand what this means, as this revelation is how you find real faith for all time., and this revelation is simply that the Law can never again define your deeds as a sin, or define you as a sinner.

Why?
Because you are : "not under the law........but under GRACE"..


This means that the born again, CHRISTian, is always found here..


'""""""""""""""Where there is NO LAW.......there is no TRANSGRESSION""""""""">.

See that?
That is the "get that revelation" or you can't mature in Christ, and will always try to confess sin, to stay saved, you'll worry about "losing it".... and you'll not be able to get past ... Hebrews 6:1

Whereas..., when you come to the understanding of what it means to be "made free from sin"... "not under the Law"...You'll read 2 Corin 5:19 and Romans 4:8 and rejoice, because you'll finally understand your SALVATION.... Reader.

And once you SEE this Revelation, regarding who you have become '"IN Christ", you have arrived here..

"Work out your Salvation, in awe and wonder".

A.) You've worked it out........you've UNDERSTOOD IT Perfectly.

 

[GracePeace]

See if you can follow this...
-
No matter the sin.........Jesus on The Cross has become this.. for the BELIEVER.. = Born Again.

1.) "God hath made Jesus.. to BE SIN....for us"..

2.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... ETERNAL.......SACRIFICE...for sin".

This means that all sin for all time is dealt with, by JESUS's Sacrifice.... and therefore God's justice is eternally satisfied.

And here is where the Believer's mind gets blown, as this is the part of "the Gift of Salvation" that offends the flesh and the self righteousness in a Believer.
And the truth is.. .the more prideful and self righteous you are, the more this will offend your point of view, and your opinion, that is your self righteousness, regarding your lack of understanding regarding God's "GIFT of Salvation."

Now, you milage is going to vary, regarding what im going to teach you.. .so, some will say..>"of course" and others who have the issue will not want to see God's Grace....

Notice...

The born again are "not under the Law".. ."but under Grace".

That means, that the born again, have RECEIVED a finished salvation and eternal life....that is not based on how you behave.

And that offends the flesh........as the flesh wants to say...>>"""now look everyone... and see what im doing, so that i can say that God's Salvation, is partly based on ME ME ME ME".

See that? That is SELF Righteousness, that is denying Jesus full credit for saving you and keeping you saved. And most Christians, have that "carnal mind" "in the flesh"..issue and want to fight about what they have to do, to stay saved and stay forgiven., so that they can take some CREDIT instead of Giving Jesus all the CREDIT due Him alone, for saving you and keeping you saved.

Now, a vital understanding regarding the finished work of Jesus on The Cross is it produced this for you.... = You are...."no longer under the LAW".

So....You have to understand what this means, as this revelation is how you find real faith for all time., and this revelation is simply that the Law can never again define your deeds as a sin, or define you as a sinner.

Why?
Because you are : "not under the law........but under GRACE"..


This means that the born again, CHRISTian, is always found here..


'""""""""""""""Where there is NO LAW.......there is no TRANSGRESSION""""""""">.

See that?
That is the "get that revelation" or you can't mature in Christ, and will always try to confess sin, to stay saved, you'll worry about "losing it".... and you'll not be able to get past ... Hebrews 6:1

Whereas..., when you come to the understanding of what it means to be "made free from sin"... "not under the Law"...You'll read 2 Corin 5:19 and Romans 4:8 and rejoice, because you'll finally understand your SALVATION.... Reader.

And once you SEE this Revelation, regarding who you have become '"IN Christ", you have arrived here..

"Work out your Salvation, in awe and wonder".

A.) You've worked it out........you've UNDERSTOOD IT Perfectly.

None of this is an answer to anything I've said; you have a lot of irrelevant thoughts, and you should go make a thread about them, because I'm not interested in ANYTHING apart from you answering the answers I've already furnished to your nonsense "replies" to things I've stated. The issue is you can't continue in the discussion when you are soundly rebutted, you change the topic, and pretend you haven't been answered. You're just deceptive, from start to finish.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You have a lot of thoughts about John's Gospel, but you don't seem to be interested in answering the pointed questions presented in the OP--you should make your own thread about your thoughts.

The OP didn't contain any pointed questions. To be honest, I feel a sense of disappointment that my brief insights on the Gospel of John didn’t appear to resonate with you or hold any significance in our discussion.

 

[Behold]

To deny that I am evil and a sinner is to deny my own existence.

You stated...

"It is psychologically impossible for someone who places his or her hope in that message to practice sin or to have a lax morality."

And i pointed out that Christians on this forum, and in fact world wide are confessing their sin to God........so, how "lax" are they all when they are involved in committing what they will confess later?

I'm not sure what you mean.

I am defining "Legalism" as "Christian Phariseeism", which seeks God's favor by keeping the rules.l. Pay your tithes. Pray once a day. Read the Bible. Give to the poor. Tip your waitress 20%. We could multiply the rules, but I think you get the point.

Legalism or "self saving"... is not trying to seek God's favor........its trying to stay saved by self effort.

Its really self righteousness........and that is.......to try to remain right with God by : Self Effort.

A Legalist will always believe that they can lose their Salvation or that it can be lost or thrown away.., and that is because they are trying to save themselves, vs trusting in Christ to keep them saved.

Living in the hope of the Gospel prompts believers to reflect deeply on several crucial questions that shape their spiritual journey. Firstly, one must consider what true obedience entails in their daily life. This includes examining how to align one’s actions, choices, and attitudes with the teachings of Christ and understanding the significance of following His example.

What you are defining is not Salvation.........you are defining Discipleship.
They are not the same thing.

Additionally, believers often wonder how to discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit amidst the many voices and influences in their lives. This may involve recognizing the subtle nudges and confirmations that lead them toward decisions that resonate with their faith and values.

The best way to hear God's voice is to study God's word., as that way, you are hearing it on every page, everytime you study it.

Another fundamental question revolves around what it really means to live out righteousness, peacefulness, and humility in a world that often promotes the opposite.

The way of perfected discipleship, is to Love. (Agape')

See, Love never tries to do any harm to anyone......so, LOVE is the perfection of righteous behavior.

Finally, believers are encouraged to contemplate the nature of bearing spiritual fruit in their lives. transformative hope.

Real "fruit bearing" for God and Christ, is not the person's work.

Real "Christian" fruit bearing is found in submission to the Spirit of God, as He bears His Fruit through the born again vessel.

 

[GracePeace]

The OP didn't contain any pointed questions. To be honest, I feel a sense of disappointment that my brief insights on the Gospel of John didn’t appear to resonate with you or hold any significance in our discussion.

1. I asked this question :

How do you all reconcile the following verses?

2. The fact that the thread is called "Difficulty Reconciling", and then the OP goes on to describe the things I was having difficulty reconciling, you don't conclude that the question is "How do you reconcile these things?"

 

[GracePeace]

To be honest, I feel a sense of disappointment that my brief insights on the Gospel of John didn’t appear to resonate with you or hold any significance in our discussion.

Yeah, I know you wanted to share your thoughts, but this is not the place for you to share what you've gathered; this is the place to answer the OP. The place to share your thoughts on John's Gospel would be a thread of your own.

 

[Nancy]

@Behold ,
OSAS is something that I would love to believe and, to an extent I do. But...there are so many verses saying one can be lost, even after being added to the Original Olive Tree (Christ). Here are but a few verses that tell me that yes, we can lose our salvation. BTW-Please do not state someone on here is a cult.

You dont realize that this verse is teaching 2 things, and not just one?

Notice 1.) Believe and 2.) Love.

Those are not the same, regarding abiding......"IN" Christ.

Notice......>if you love your neighbor as yourself, and if you love everyone, but you have not "believed in Jesus" then all your love ends up with you, in Hell.
Why?
Because Salvation is God provided, not based on your loving anyone.....but only based on The Cross Of Christ where God "so LOVED the word"........= You, and me.
Understand ?

Also, if you have believed, and are born again, and you dont LOVE, as you should, then you are still born again, but you are going to have to be shown and taught some things about "love" that is God's Love, that is agape' love.




Read what i posted, previously and find your answer.

John 15:1-6
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. / You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you".

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

2 Peter 2:20-22
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 3:5
"The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before angels."

Hebrews 10:26
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"

1 Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be
disqualified."

Revelation 2:10
"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

You and @GracePeace simply have difference of interpretation.

 

[GracePeace]

@Behold ,
OSAS is something that I would love to believe and, to an extent I do. But...there are so many verses saying one can be lost, even after being added to the Original Olive Tree (Christ). Here are but a few verses that tell me that yes, we can lose our salvation. BTW-Please do not state someone on here is a cult.

John 15:1-6
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. / You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you".

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

2 Peter 2:20-22
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 3:5
"The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before angels."

Hebrews 10:26
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"

1 Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be
disqualified."

Revelation 2:10
"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

You and @GracePeace simply have difference of interpretation.

Also, Paul says, "I beat my body, make it into my slave, lest, after having preached to others, I myself become a castaway."

 

[Behold]

@Behold ,
OSAS is something that I would love to believe and, to an extent I do.

Being born again, can't end, and we received the new birth "while we were yet sinners"..

So, we see that becoming a Christian, was never based on our behavior.......and after we become one... the situation does not Change.

Its God who esteems us as "Made righteous" based on what Christ has accomplished for us.
We dont cause that, and we can't change it once its given to us, as "the Gift of Salvation".

Real faith, believes that God who started our salvation, is going to be FAITHFUL to complete it.
See, our Salvation is supplied by God as Christ on the Cross.., and this can't be "lost".....as we didnt do it.......we can only receive it.
This is what Paul teaches .

 

[Behold]

Also, Paul says, "I beat my body, make it into my slave, lest, after having preached to others, I myself become a castaway."

A Castaway, can be 2 things..

1.) A Backslider who stays this way..

or.

2.) A Minister who has fallen, and will never recover.

In both cases, Salvation is not lost, because it can't be initially earned or kept........as its a "Gift.".. from God.

Notice, Reader....

"The Gifts and callings of God are without REPENTANCE"..

"Without Repentance" means.. God will never end it, or take it back...

Now look..

Salvation is.. "THe Gift of Salvation"...........and once you have been GIVEN IT>......then you belong to God, as God has purchased you with the Blood of Jesus, and that is ETERNAL.

What badly taught Christians and religious unsaved heretics can't grasp is that Discipleship is not the same thing as Salvation.

Listen..
Salvation is a Gift from God, that is = ONLY based on the Cross of Christ........and its Eternal.....whereas.. our discipleship, is how we pursue what has been eternally given to us by God.........on a daily basis.

Discipleship is.....>"Present your body as a living sacrifice to God as your reasonable SERVICE"

See that ? "SERVICE".............and that is not SALVATiON.........that is our discipleship. Its what we do BECAUSE we are eternally forgiven. (Salvation).

 

[Hey You!]

Also, Paul says, "I beat my body, make it into my slave, lest, after having preached to others, I myself become a castaway."

Calling God a Liar ~ by ReverendRV * February 10

Titus 1:2 BSB; in hope of Eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Imagine what our life would be like if God could lie. In Norse mythology Loki is a trickster, the god of mischief. The Bible calls Satan the god of this world, the father of lies. A god wouldn’t be worth having if you could trust him no more than you can trust yourself. God gave us the Ten Commandments and he said ‘thou shalt not Lie’; have you ever told a lie? Then you would have something in common with these worldly gods; you would be a liar. ~ One of the worse Sins you could commit is to call God a liar. How close in severity would this compare to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? The similarities boggle the mind! The Bible teaches us that God is Holy, Holy, Holy; the ultimate expression of Holiness; it also teaches us it’s way easier to call God a Liar than you might think. Here’s one way we can call God a Liar; “We accept human testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God; testimony he has given about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they haven’t believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us Eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.” Praise God!

The Apostle John tells us that if we do not believe God has given Christ’s followers Eternal Life, we make God out to be a Liar. John says that God has ‘testified’ that he has given Christians Eternal life and this life is in Jesus! Elsewhere Jesus said that he himself gives those who believe on him Eternal life and no one can snatch them out of his hand. Jesus says that a believer ‘has’ Eternal life and will not be condemned, he has passed from death to life. Is it easier to say that Jesus is lying than it is to say that his Father Jehovah is lying then? I would say not, because Jesus said that he only spoke what he heard his Father say. Jesus says this about those who are in his hand, ‘My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” To call Jesus here a Liar is a round-about way to also call his Father; a liar…

Do you find Eternal life attractive? Then you must also find God’s son attractive. Since lying is a Sin you must repent of it and through Faith follow Jesus Christ. If you Repent of your wicked ways and follow the risen Christ, he will Save you from the due penalty of your Sins; which is an eternity in Hell. God accepts you in part because of Christ’s good standing before the LORD; which by the Grace of God through Faith in Jesus Christ is now your good standing. ~ Since not believing that God has given Christians Eternal life makes him out to be a Liar, isn't it true that not believing you would spend Eternity in Hell for unforgiven Sins also make God a Liar?

John 5:24 ESV; Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Behold]

2c. There are other passages that seem to teach the same (have to keep God's commands--both speaking and acting as He commands--to have eternal life) :

Reader,

Jesus is Eternal Life...= Its Him.

This is why Jesus told us... "if you believe in me, i give unto you ETERNAL LIFE"...

And How does the Christian understand what that means........."to have it".

Its simple...

We understand that Eternal life is not a period of Time........its Jesus Himself.. and the born again are joined to Him, Spiritually.
So, when you are Joined to Jesus...(Spiritually).......and Jesus is Eternal Life.. then you are now Joined to Eternal life.

1+1 =2

This is why John says that """" You can KNOW that you have ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is IN His SON"..

So, Jesus is Eternal life and notice....= "CHRIST IN YOU.. the hope of Glory" (Glory is Heaven), .....and every born again CHRISTian is "IN Christ'.. and Jesus is : Eternal life.

Notice John 14:6.....>"I am THE WAY... and THE Truth, and THE LIFE">... "THE LIFE"... = Eternal Life., and Jesus who is Eternal life .. "Who came to give us Life and that more abundantly" is INSIDE every Born Again Christian.

So, that is how you KNOW, you have Eternal Life.

If you're not a Born Again Christian, then you dont have eternal life. You have this....... John 3:36

 

[CadyandZoe]

You stated...

"It is psychologically impossible for someone who places his or her hope in that message to practice sin or to have a lax morality."

And i pointed out that Christians on this forum, and in fact world wide are confessing their sin to God........so, how "lax" are they all when they are involved in committing what they will confess later?

The difference lies in the spiritual state of an individual, specifically whether a Christian remains alienated from God, holding a mindset that is adversarial and actively engaging in wrongful actions, or whether they are firmly anchored in their faith and unwavering in their hope in the Gospel. This distinction is crucial and highlights the concept of authenticity in one's spiritual journey.

Those who approach God with humility and a contrite heart, recognizing their shortcomings and seeking genuine reconciliation, find themselves in true fellowship with Him. Conversely, there are individuals who profess to follow Christ, yet their actions reveal a mindset that opposes God and is entrenched in sinful behavior. Such individuals are, in essence, indicating that they are not truly in fellowship with God, as their lives reflect a disconnect from the fundamental tenets of their faith. It is this contrast between genuine faith and outward claims that ultimately defines the nature of one's relationship with the divine.

Legalism or "self saving"... is not trying to seek God's favor........its trying to stay saved by self effort.

Its really self righteousness........and that is.......to try to remain right with God by : Self Effort.

I see your point, but it's important to note that for a Legalist, the focus of their effort lies in strictly adhering to the rules and regulations. They constantly evaluate their own behavior and decisions based on the criteria of success or failure in following these established guidelines. This approach often leads to a mindset where one's worth and ability are measured primarily by the degree of compliance with the rules, rather than the broader context of their actions or intentions.

A Legalist will always believe that they can lose their Salvation or that it can be lost or thrown away.., and that is because they are trying to save themselves, vs trusting in Christ to keep them saved.

Typically, a Legalist holds the belief that salvation can indeed be lost. However, this perspective comes with a sense of confidence that they themselves are not at risk of losing it. This assurance stems from their constant adherence to a strict set of rules and regulations. They believe that as long as they meticulously follow these guidelines, their salvation remains secure.

In instances where they might falter in adhering to the rules, Legalists often possess a rationale that provides them with a sort of safety net, allowing them to justify their shortcomings. This reasoning may include the belief that their intentions were good, or that they can earn forgiveness through additional good deeds or penance. Consequently, they maintain a sense of control over their spiritual state, viewing themselves as steadfastly committed to the standards they believe are necessary for salvation, thereby diminishing their perceived vulnerability to losing it.

What you are defining is not Salvation.........you are defining Discipleship.
They are not the same thing.

To be more accurate, I am referring to sanctification, which encompasses the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, possessing the Spirit of Christ, and manifesting the fruits of the Spirit. Those who are not sanctified are not saved.

 

[CadyandZoe]

1. I asked this question :

2. The fact that the thread is called "Difficulty Reconciling", and then the OP goes on to describe the things I was having difficulty reconciling, you don't conclude that the question is "How do you reconcile these things?"

My two previous posts were answers to your question. I'm sorry you didn't understand. The most effective approach to conducting a meaningful comparison of two or more verses in a Gospel is to carefully examine the overarching themes and concepts that they present. This involves looking beyond individual words or phrases and instead focusing on the broader messages and ideas conveyed throughout the text. By analyzing how these themes interplay and relate to one another within the context of the Gospel, one can gain deeper insights into the theological and moral implications of the verses being compared.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yeah, I know you wanted to share your thoughts, but this is not the place for you to share what you've gathered; this is the place to answer the OP. The place to share your thoughts on John's Gospel would be a thread of your own.

I disagree for the reason I stated in my previous post. You might disagree with my conclusions but my method is the only legitimate method for comparing two verses quoted from a Gospel.

 

[Behold]

The difference lies in the spiritual state of an individual,

What you originally wrote, that i quoted ......is that no real christian can become "Lax".

So, that is what you wrote, and i then pointed out that most Christians are "confessing sin".... and now you keep reposting a different concept, regarding what you originally posted.

Those who approach God with humility and a contrite heart, recognizing their shortcomings and seeking genuine reconciliation,

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners"..

Its a "sinner" who "approaches" God...... and the repenting they must offer God is not to turn from Sin... but its to turn from UNBELIEF.

See, God is calling SINNERS< : to BELIEVE..........so, He's not looking for angels disguised as sinners......He's looking for sinners who now BELIEVE in Jesus by FAITH...... and want to be forgiven all their sin and be give eternal life.

I see your point, but it's important to note that for a Legalist, the focus of their effort lies in strictly adhering to the rules and regulations.

Why does a Christian become a Legalist?

Its because they are "fallen from Grace"..... In other words.......they stopped trusting in Christ alone to save them and keep them saved.

They have departed from "Jesus KEEPS me saved" .. .= they are FALLEN From that understanding of GRACE.. and now they are "in the flesh".... as a "self saver".. '"mind blinded""......= trying to STAY Saved by "SELF Effort'..... = Legalism.

To be more accurate, I am referring to sanctification, which encompasses the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, possessing the Spirit of Christ, and manifesting the fruits of the Spirit. Those who are not sanctified are not saved.

There is 1 Cor 1:30 that teaches us that Jesus is our sanctification..(KJV). so, that is explaining that because we are "IN Christ" we are "Made Righteous".. .forever......as our eternal Standing before God.

Whereas our daily on earth "state".....can be much different..... and that is because our "state" regarding our Discipleship......and our level of daily Holiness.. is dependent on how we believe regarding what we believe.
See, all Christian Heretics, are wrong believers......regarding not understanding "God's Grace".. correctly.
This is why Hebrews 13:9, says that we have to do something with our '"heart"", (Daily)... or a "doctrine of devils" like Calvinism, or Mormonism, is going to get you.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What you originally wrote, that i quoted ......is that no real christian can become "Lax".

Yes, I stand by what I said. Perhaps I misunderstood your objection.

So, that is what you wrote, and i then pointed out that most Christians are "confessing sin".... and now you keep reposting a different concept, regarding what you originally posted.

The points I made are related to each other and come from Colossians chapter one, where Paul associates salvation with "the hope of the Gospel." Believing the facts contained in the gospel isn't enough.

"Jesus came into the world to save sinners"..

Its a "sinner" who "approaches" God...... and the repenting they must offer God is not to turn from Sin... but its to turn from UNBELIEF.

See, God is calling SINNERS< : to BELIEVE..........so, He's not looking for angels disguised as sinners......He's looking for sinners who now BELIEVE in Jesus by FAITH...... and want to be forgiven all their sin and be give eternal life.

I wholeheartedly agree that God calls sinners to repent and to believe in His word, which is a fundamental characteristic of a true child of God. This process of repentance is crucial, as it signifies a turning away from sin and a commitment to a new way of life rooted in faith. However, as the Apostle Paul emphasizes in his letter to the Colossians, it is essential that we remain steadfast in our hope and not drift away from the foundational message we originally received.

This message carries profound significance: it is a promise of liberation from the punishment that sin deserves as well as liberation from the cycle of sin itself. When individuals truly grasp the depth of this hope and allow it to permeate their lives, their behavior naturally aligns with these beliefs. They begin to live in a manner that reflects this newfound freedom, understanding that genuine faith is intricately tied to a transformative lifestyle. Therefore, this hope serves not only as a source of encouragement but also as a guiding principle for how one conducts their life in accordance with God's will.

Faith may not directly assure success, but when we examine the course of an individual's life, we often observe a profound transformation. This change typically involves a movement away from feelings of enmity or resentment toward God, marked by a sincere commitment to embrace and follow the guidance of the Spirit. Such a journey reflects not just a shift in belief, but an evolution toward a more harmonious relationship with the divine, illustrating the deep impact of spiritual devotion.

Why does a Christian become a Legalist?

Its because they are "fallen from Grace"..... In other words.......they stopped trusting in Christ alone to save them and keep them saved.

I wouldn’t necessarily attribute a fall from grace as the primary reason someone turns to legalism. While it's true that experiences of grace can lead individuals to either embrace or reject legalistic practices, legalism itself often stems from deeper issues rooted in unbelief, as you mentioned. However, to delve further into the motivations behind legalism, I believe it primarily arises from a profound lack of courage and conviction regarding one's own spiritual standing.

When individuals grapple with uncertainty about their salvation, they may feel compelled to seek reassurance through strict adherence to rules and regulations. This need for security can often overshadow the genuine freedom that comes with faith. Thus, if someone is plagued by doubts about their salvation, their focus as a legalist would likely shift to the singular question: "Did I keep all the rules?" This mindset creates a cycle where performance becomes a substitute for faith, as individuals chase the illusion of security through their actions rather than finding true assurance in their belief and relationship with God. Such a perspective can lead to a rigid and often burdensome approach to spirituality that ultimately detracts from the grace that is available to them.

 

[GracePeace]

aw

Calling God a Liar ~ by ReverendRV * February 10

Titus 1:2 BSB; in hope of Eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Imagine what our life would be like if God could lie. In Norse mythology Loki is a trickster, the god of mischief. The Bible calls Satan the god of this world, the father of lies. A god wouldn’t be worth having if you could trust him no more than you can trust yourself. God gave us the Ten Commandments and he said ‘thou shalt not Lie’; have you ever told a lie? Then you would have something in common with these worldly gods; you would be a liar. ~ One of the worse Sins you could commit is to call God a liar. How close in severity would this compare to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? The similarities boggle the mind! The Bible teaches us that God is Holy, Holy, Holy; the ultimate expression of Holiness; it also teaches us it’s way easier to call God a Liar than you might think. Here’s one way we can call God a Liar; “We accept human testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God; testimony he has given about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they haven’t believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us Eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.” Praise God!

The Apostle John tells us that if we do not believe God has given Christ’s followers Eternal Life, we make God out to be a Liar. John says that God has ‘testified’ that he has given Christians Eternal life and this life is in Jesus! Elsewhere Jesus said that he himself gives those who believe on him Eternal life and no one can snatch them out of his hand. Jesus says that a believer ‘has’ Eternal life and will not be condemned, he has passed from death to life. Is it easier to say that Jesus is lying than it is to say that his Father Jehovah is lying then? I would say not, because Jesus said that he only spoke what he heard his Father say. Jesus says this about those who are in his hand, ‘My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.” To call Jesus here a Liar is a round-about way to also call his Father; a liar…

Do you find Eternal life attractive? Then you must also find God’s son attractive. Since lying is a Sin you must repent of it and through Faith follow Jesus Christ. If you Repent of your wicked ways and follow the risen Christ, he will Save you from the due penalty of your Sins; which is an eternity in Hell. God accepts you in part because of Christ’s good standing before the LORD; which by the Grace of God through Faith in Jesus Christ is now your good standing. ~ Since not believing that God has given Christians Eternal life makes him out to be a Liar, isn't it true that not believing you would spend Eternity in Hell for unforgiven Sins also make God a Liar?

John 5:24 ESV; Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

The OP of this thread asks people how they reconcile the verses, it doesn't ask anyone to copy and paste a block of text as proof why they have ignored either and gone with one of them (as you and others do--eg, as you've done here).

The lady I was responding to was simply expressing her reservations about the idea that no one can fall away permanently, so , I was reminded of a verse (one that challenges my own view, a view of Conditional OSAS), so, when it came to mind, I thought it would help her express her thoughts--notice she didn't engage, dragging her argument on, afterward, proving it was a quick interjection, not meant to steer the conversation, not a fully formed argument, intended to spark a new discussion. I was right about it. It wasn't an issue.

You're not doing what she did so I won't treat it as I treated her small interjection.

 

[GracePeace]

I disagree for the reason I stated in my previous post. You might disagree with my conclusions but my method is the only legitimate method for comparing two verses quoted from a Gospel.

Interesting you view your method so highly, and yourself so special, that way, and, yet, your "answer" leaves the issue tangled and unresolved.