Difficulty Reconciling

[Behold]

I invite all readers to see read how you've evaded,

Definitely invite them to read what i was showing you since your first post that we discussed where you were trying to prove that you have to love, to be accepted by God, initially.
So, be my guest, little one.... absolutely.

 

[GracePeace]

Definitely invite them to read what i was showing you since your first post that we discussed where you were trying to prove that you have to love, to be accepted by God, initially.

I have explicitly denied this, so, again, you're being deceptive--it's apparently all you know how to do.
I even corrected your misundertanding about my position, already--I said AFTER God loves us, then we can love God and others--but you're STILL lying about me. You INSIST on lying about people. It really is disgusting.

So, be my guest, little one.... absolutely.

Guest for what?

 

[Behold]

I have explicitly denied this,

Actually you kept trying to prove it, the first few posts we shared.
But dont worry about it, as i already explained to you what i was doing, regarding your theology.

 

[GracePeace]

Actually you kept trying to prove it, the first few posts we shared.

You're still lying about what I said. Anyone can read what I said "we love Him because He loved us first".

i already explained to you what i was doing, regarding your theology.

It's the same thing I'm doing with your incoherent babbling. Keep it up.

 

[Behold]

Right, and you're still lying about what I said.

I dont lie, and i didnt lie regarding you.
You are just incapable of doing anything but trying to cause strife, and you are now found drowning in it., as you deserve @GracePeace

Try to remember that when we first started posting, i kept trying to teach you that Salvation is not "belief + love".

Remember?

I do.

It's the same thing I'm doing with your incoherent babbling. Keep it up.

No one is forcing you to keep posting to me, but as you need to hear yourself talk, and then deny what you say.. i guess you have some issues... that you should prayerfully consider repenting of..... asap.

So, let me teach you something else... , and maybe you can learn it.
If not, the real bible students who find it.. will .
-
-
Eph 1:6 says that all the born again are "accepted"........"in"........"the Beloved".

Now there are 2 ways to understand this, and one is theological and one is spiritual.

Lets start with theological.

1.) What does it mean to be "accepted".............(By God).....

It means this.... = that God has accepted our faith in Christ to accept us...and here is how .... = "In JESUS.. we (the believers) have redemption through Jesus's blood, = the forgiveness of all sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s GRACE"

God mercy is Christ's Blood and Death that redeems and forgives and sanctifies.
God's Grace, is that God only sees you only as a born again Saint, a Son/Daughter of God.

See that?
That redemption is our eternal forgiveness, and its found as The CROSS of Christ = as this is where God and sinner become Father and Saint.. Father and Son/Daughter of God.

And now that the believer is born again, BECAUSE God has accepted our Faith in Christ to deliver unto us, "redemption" "forgiveness", and eternal life.. we now exist here..

= "in the Household of God".. .""as an Heir of God, and a Joint Heir with Jesus""

This is to become the "Beloved".. of God for all eternity

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Here is how to see the verse "Spiritually".

2.) Notice the verse says... "IN". the "BELOVED"..

Now Who is God's original "Beloved"?

= This is God's "only begotten Son".. this is JESUS the Virgin born... and God said = . "In HIM.. I am well pleased"..

Now notice the verse again........ "IN .. The Beloved"..

So, the born again are 'IN". "Jesus" who is God's Beloved.. and how is that?
That means we are "IN CHRIST"... as born again Spiritually. or "IN". God's Son, who is God's "beloved".
And this is why Eph 2:6 says....that all the born again are "Seated in Heavenly places, IN Christ"... as we are IN HIM. = "IN...the Beloved".

So, that is the Spiritual application of the verse.

 

[GracePeace]

I dont lie, and i didnt lie regarding you.
You are just incapable of doing anything but trying to cause strife, and you are now found drowning in it., as you deserve @GracePeace

Try to remember that when we first started posting, i kept trying to teach you that Salvation is not "belief + love".

Remember?

I do.

Nope, I never once argued--I also explicitly denied--that "initial" salvation or justification was by loving God.
The issue was how CHRISTIANS abide in Him, and I proved it was by believing and loving, and you could never disprove it because it's explicitly stated (1 Jn 3:23,24).
Why would I argue initial justification or salvation was by good deeds?

No one is forcing you to keep posting to me, but as you need to hear yourself talk, and then deny what you say.. i guess you have some issues... that you should prayerfully consider repenting of..... asap

It's a discussion board, it's my thread, you're lying about me non-stop (which you should repent of ASAP), and I get to show everyone how incoherent your view is, so why shouldn't I discuss?

So, let me teach you something else... , and maybe you can learn it.
If not, the real bible students who find it.. will .
-
-
Eph 1:6 says that all the born again are "accepted"........"in"........"the Beloved".

Now there are 2 ways to understand this, and one is theological and one is spiritual.

Lets start with theological.

1.) What does it mean to be "accepted".............(By God).....

It means this.... = that God has accepted our faith in Christ to accept us...and here is how .... = "In JESUS.. we (the believers) have redemption through Jesus's blood, = the forgiveness of all sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s GRACE"

God mercy is Christ's Blood and Death that redeems and forgives and sanctifies.
God's Grace, is that God only sees you only as a born again Saint, a Son/Daughter of God.

See that?
That redemption is our eternal forgiveness, and its found as The CROSS of Christ = as this is where God and sinner become Father and Saint.. Father and Son/Daughter of God.

And now that the believer is born again, BECAUSE God has accepted our Faith in Christ to deliver unto us, "redemption" "forgiveness", and eternal life.. we now exist here..

= "in the Household of God".. .""as an Heir of God, and a Joint Heir with Jesus""

This is to become the "Beloved".. of God for all eternity

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Here is how to see the verse "Spiritually".

2.) Notice the verse says... "IN". the "BELOVED"..

Now Who is God's original "Beloved"?

= This is God's "only begotten Son".. this is JESUS the Virgin born... and God said = . "In HIM.. I am well pleased"..

Now notice the verse again........ "IN .. The Beloved"..

So, the born again are 'IN". "Jesus" who is God's Beloved.. and how is that?
That means we are "IN CHRIST"... as born again Spiritually. or "IN". God's Son, who is God's "beloved".
And this is why Eph 2:6 says....that all the born again are "Seated in Heavenly places, IN Christ"... as we are IN HIM. = "IN...the Beloved".

So, that is the Spiritual application of the verse.

I guess you should make a thread on this gobbledygook--this is my thread where you answer my views (but you don't, bc you can't).

 

[Behold]

Nope, I never once argued--I also explicitly denied--that "initial" salvation or justification was by loving God.

Yet you posted the very verse from John and then tried to connect it to Salvation., and you continued to try to prove it with at least one more verse and more posts...

Its ok if you want to deny what you've done., and if you've edited your previous posts, then im not surprised...... are you?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are taking Paul's verse and redefining it like this..

"Paul is teaching that if we dont remain steadfast.....if we are not good, and if we are not always trying to be perfect... if we for one second or one week, have a faith crisis.....then our Salvation is LOST".

I would not characterize living in the hope of the gospel that way. God does not demand perfection or that we be good. The Gospel teaches us that we are sinners, not good, but it also teaches us that God has forgiven our sins and that he will take away our sinful nature someday. It is psychologically impossible for someone who places his or her hope in that message to practice sin or to have a lax morality.

See that?
So, that is the typical deceptive FORUM teaching that denies God's Grace, whereby a person is trying to take Jesus off the Cross, and put the reader on it.....so that they now are nailed to trying to keep themselves saved by their own SELF effort.

And that is : LEGALISM

I disagree. Striving to obey God is not legalism. Attempting to earn God's favor by keeping the rules is legalism. See the difference?

 

[Behold]

God has forgiven our sins and that he will take away our sinful nature someday.

Actually, "the old man of sin is crucified with Christ" and a Christian is a New Creation.. so, that is a "divine Nature" as Peter explains.., that the born again has now......and does not have to wait for it..

It is psychologically impossible for someone who places his or her hope in that message to practice sin or to have a lax morality.

What you said, reveals that when you try to explain why a Christian is confessing sin... then you are going to prove you are very confused, theologically.

99% of the professing Christians on this Forum or any forum will tell you that they have "confessed sin" .. or something like that.... ........so, when you say that is impossible, because they can't be "lax" then you are not living in the real world with them.....

I disagree. Striving to obey God is not legalism. Attempting to earn God's favor by keeping the rules is legalism. See the difference?

Actually the only "Christian Rule", that we are to keep is "LOVE"... so, your rules are not that... and so, your rules are self effort.

The only rule book, is OLD Testament commandments and law... so, those rules do not apply regarding the New Covenant, that is why we are saved and how we remain so.

 

[GracePeace]

Yet you posted the very verse from John and then tried to connect it to Salvation., and you continued to try to prove it with at least one more verse and more posts...

Yeah, you misunderstood me, because you see salvation as a once-for-all-occurrence, whereas I, believing the Bible, see it as an ongoing reality ("were saved", "are being saved", "will be saved", "now is our salvation nearer than when we first believed"). You even used the word "initial", which means you ought to know how people view these things--that people see a "final" justification and an "initial" justification, and people like me see an "ongoing" justification--but I guess you're being deceptive again.

Its ok if you want to deny what you've done

I don't need to deny what I've said, because the reality is you've misunderstood or intentionally misrepresented what I've said.

and if you've edited your previous posts, then im not surprised...... are you?

People can see when those edits were made--they were not made in response to anything you've said, but because, especially when I'm on my phone, I find grammatical errors, and sometimes I want to add to my argument to make it more persuasive or to clarify.
Of course you have to misinterpret my editing as if it had something to do with "hiding" something, or "changing" my words due to you--you misunderstand everything, starting with Scripture, and then going on down the line.

You're not even a challenging debate opponent, you're just an annoying nonstop nonsense-spewer. Why would I even think to sink to underhanded tactics when everything I've stated is perfectly correct? Really, you're not going to be the reason for anyone compromising their morals in that way.

 

[Behold]

Yeah, you misunderstood me,

Not so far.

People can see when those edits were made-

Yeah... uh huh..

 

[CadyandZoe]

For the purpose of the OP, I wanted to stick to John's Gospel.

Okay, but I don't approach the scriptures that way. I don't go to the scriptures with MY questions in hand. I allow the Biblical author to raise his own questions instead. With regard to the gospel of John, Let's take the 40,000 foot view.

To your point, I can say this. I have studied John's gospel, and this is what I have found. John is interested in the questions surrounding the subject of belief. For instance, why do some people believe while others don't? Why should someone believe? What is necessary for belief? What evidence did Jesus supply to the crowds that proved he was the Christ?

The Gospel of John is notable for its deep symbolism and intricate themes, often utilizing repetitive language to underscore its central messages. This text highlights the profound concepts of "Light" and "Witness," but it also revolves around several other pivotal terms that are critical to understanding its overall narrative. Key words such as "Testify" and "Testimony" serve to underscore the importance of personal accounts and witness to the truth, reflecting the Gospel's emphasis on faith and belief.

Additionally, the concepts of "Truth," "Declare," and "Speak" illustrate the significance of the spoken word and the revelation of divine knowledge within the Gospel. "Believe" is a recurring term that calls for a response from the reader, inviting them to place their faith in Jesus as the Messiah. The word "Life" is central to the message, symbolizing not just physical existence but a deeper, spiritual vitality that comes from a relationship with God. Lastly, "Glory" encapsulates the divine majesty and importance of Jesus' works and sacrificial love, reinforcing the transformative power of His presence in the world. Through these repeated motifs, the Gospel of John conveys a rich tapestry of meaning that invites reflection and encourages belief in its profound themes.

John's Gospel provides a nuanced understanding of what it means to be a child of God, highlighting several key markers that collectively define this relationship. One of the most fundamental markers is belief; having faith in God and His Son is essential. However, being a child of God encompasses more than just belief. It involves actively seeking after the kingdom of God, which means prioritizing spiritual growth and community engagement.

Additionally, a true child of God expresses their faith through love—firstly, by demonstrating love for God, who is the source of all love and goodness. This love naturally extends to one’s neighbors, emphasizing the importance of compassion, kindness, and support for others in both daily interactions and broader social contexts.

Loving fellow believers is also a critical component, as it fosters unity and strength within the community. Furthermore, a child of God is characterized by a deep trust in God’s promises, which manifests as obedience to His teachings and guidance. Hope in God is another significant trait; it reflects a purposeful reliance on His plans and timing, especially in times of uncertainty.

In summary, being a child of God is marked by a constellation of attributes: belief, the pursuit of God’s kingdom, love for God and others, faith in Jesus Christ, adherence to divine commandments, and a steadfast hope and trust in God. Together, these markers create a holistic picture of what it means to live as a child of God in the world.

 

[GracePeace]

Not so far.

Again, you prefer to hold to your lies against me than hear me out.
I corrected your misunderstanding, and you refuse to admit your error.
You're intentionally dishonest.

Yeah... uh huh... .now run along little one.

...... next.

Oops, this is my thread--you can run along, I'll stay here in my thread.

 

[Behold]

Again, you prefer to hold to your lies

If you lived a hundred lifetimes, you could not prove that ive lied about you., and that's because i didnt.
I agree that you were and are still theologically confused.......so, on that point, we can agree.
So, what you are doing, is called "damage control" and you're too late., and even more editing of your own previous post, just makes it worse for you.
Be smarter.

 

[GracePeace]

Okay, but I don't approach the scriptures that way.

Right, it's my thread, though, and that was the approach I chose.

I don't go to the scriptures with MY questions in hand.

That is a process of refinement we go through as we spend time reading--ridding ourselves of our views, and coming to more Scriptural views (and Scriptural questions).

I allow the Biblical author to raise his own questions instead.

Demonstrate how I did not let the author ask his questions.
What was the author's admitted reason for writing?

To your point, I can say this. I have studied John's gospel, and this is what I have found. John is interested in the questions surrounding the subject of belief. For instance, why do some people believe while others don't? Why should someone believe? What is necessary for belief? What evidence did Jesus supply to the crowds that proved he was the Christ?

The Gospel of John is notable for its deep symbolism and intricate themes, often utilizing repetitive language to underscore its central messages. This text highlights the profound concepts of "Light" and "Witness," but it also revolves around several other pivotal terms that are critical to understanding its overall narrative. Key words such as "Testify" and "Testimony" serve to underscore the importance of personal accounts and witness to the truth, reflecting the Gospel's emphasis on faith and belief.

Additionally, the concepts of "Truth," "Declare," and "Speak" illustrate the significance of the spoken word and the revelation of divine knowledge within the Gospel. "Believe" is a recurring term that calls for a response from the reader, inviting them to place their faith in Jesus as the Messiah. The word "Life" is central to the message, symbolizing not just physical existence but a deeper, spiritual vitality that comes from a relationship with God. Lastly, "Glory" encapsulates the divine majesty and importance of Jesus' works and sacrificial love, reinforcing the transformative power of His presence in the world. Through these repeated motifs, the Gospel of John conveys a rich tapestry of meaning that invites reflection and encourages belief in its profound themes.

John's Gospel provides a nuanced understanding of what it means to be a child of God, highlighting several key markers that collectively define this relationship. One of the most fundamental markers is belief; having faith in God and His Son is essential. However, being a child of God encompasses more than just belief. It involves actively seeking after the kingdom of God, which means prioritizing spiritual growth and community engagement.

Additionally, a true child of God expresses their faith through love—firstly, by demonstrating love for God, who is the source of all love and goodness. This love naturally extends to one’s neighbors, emphasizing the importance of compassion, kindness, and support for others in both daily interactions and broader social contexts.

Loving fellow believers is also a critical component, as it fosters unity and strength within the community. Furthermore, a child of God is characterized by a deep trust in God’s promises, which manifests as obedience to His teachings and guidance. Hope in God is another significant trait; it reflects a purposeful reliance on His plans and timing, especially in times of uncertainty.

In summary, being a child of God is marked by a constellation of attributes: belief, the pursuit of God’s kingdom, love for God and others, faith in Jesus Christ, adherence to divine commandments, and a steadfast hope and trust in God. Together, these markers create a holistic picture of what it means to live as a child of God in the world.

You have a lot of thoughts about John's Gospel, but you don't seem to be interested in answering the pointed questions presented in the OP--you should make your own thread about your thoughts.

 

[GracePeace]

If you lived a hundred lifetimes, you could not prove that ive lied about you., and that's because i didnt.

I've already proven it, but, again, because you prefer deception, you don't admit it.
That's fine, keep outing yourself to the readers.

I agree that you were and are still theologically confused... so, on that point, we can agree.

I agree you are theologically bankrupt utterly incapable of defending your incoherence--so on that point we can agree.

So, what you are doing, is called "damage control" and you're too late., and even more editing of your own words, just makes it worse for you.

Again, lies. I already clarified this for you and you're just uninterested in truth. Again, lies is what you prefer. Keep showing everyone what you are.

 

[Behold]

You have a lot of thoughts about John's Gospel, but you don't seem to be interested in answering the pointed questions presented

Seems that all you can do, to try to continue your redundant arguing.....is tell other members that they are not answering.

My advice to you, is that you find another place to play.

 

[GracePeace]

Seems that all you can do, to try to continue your redundant arguing.....is tell other members that they are not answering.

My advice to you, is that you find another place to play.

Your advice is not my concern, so you should find another place to give it.
I trust the readers can see how deceptive you are being.

 

[Behold]

I've already proven it,

Do you actually believe that stating that you have proven (what you haven't proven) is going to convince the members who have followed our conversations that you are being honest or have any Theological truth at hand?

That's fine, keep outing yourself to the readers.

Now you are basically repeating my previos statements about you.

Do you want to change your Alts name to "Behold' also?

I agree you are theologically bankrupt utterly incapable of defending your incoherence--so on that point we can agree.

As i told you.........i can teach you , but i can't learn it for you.
So, their is your issue. @GracePeace

Again, lies.

Not so far.

 

[GracePeace]

Do you actually believe that stating that you have proven what you haven't is going to convince the members who have followed our conversations.

Do you believe that your empty denials prove your lies true?

Now you are repeating my statements about you.

You mean like how I pointed out you repeated mine about yourself?

Do you want to change your Alts name to "Behold' also?

I don't have alts.

As i told you.........i can teach you , but i can't learn it for you.
So, their is your issue.

As I said, I have nothing but contempt for you and your gobbledygook, so don't waste your energy offering to "teach" your insanity.

Not so far.

Yup, and I'll continue pointing out how empty everything you assert it.