Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually in chapter 9 he is showing gentiles that God did not make a mistake choosing Israel. that it was always his plan that the gentiles would also be called his people
IS CALLING UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD ONLY FOR ISRAEL ?
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Yes but needed is to believe God....... what he says we must believe ........which for us is Paul's gospel
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No,
in context here. it is gentiles.
rom 9:
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am saved by having the faith of abraham
Rom 4 in pauls words
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
In the surrounding verse of v23-24 he talking about the election of God and mercy
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
[Rom 9:24 KJV] 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
He is saying God has had mercy on the Jews but not Jews only but also Gentiles
[Rom 9:27 KJV] 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
He quoted this about Israel and the believing remnant of Israel which included Gentiles
David Lamb
Active Member
But believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and believing that He was delivered for our offences and raised for our justification, are both necessary for all, not just Israel for the first, and Gentiles for the second.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No,
that does not speak of Israel and Gentiles if it does. the word remnant is meaningless..
a remnant is kept so the bloodline or nationality does not die.. because God is not done with that group. in this case. national Israel
Israel for eternal life had only to believe that Jesus was Christ and Son of God..........Gentiles could always come to God thru Israel and be obedient to their covenant.......Gentiles believed on Christ as seen in Acts 10........after the resurrection they still preached his name...........Jesus revealed to Paul the gospel he preached to Jew and Gentile
[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
The remnant is believing Israel made up of Jew and Gentiles.........they believed on the name of Jesus that he is Christ the Son of God,,,,,,,these are the Gentiles Paul is addressing as being the grafted in branches..............[Rom 11:17 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No..It is Israel only
It is a They vs Them issue
they(the natural branches) or Israel is blinded in part. but God has kept a remnant.
No gentile is included
Then who are the Gentiles saved in Acts 10?
Are they in the remnant of Israel or the body of Christ?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
acts ten has nothing to do with romans 11
they are the body of Christ. Gentile believers, the unnatural branch.
[Act 10:43 KJV] 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
The Gentiles in Acts 10 could not be in the body of Christ because they believed Peter's preaching.......Peter didnt preach the mystery of the body of Christ as did Paul.....they believed remission of sins thru the name of Christ not the cross........therefore Gentiles were the grafted branches in the remnant of Israel
All who call upon Salvation !
As The Lord is Salvation ?
But we see in the OT one calling out in the ?
Now after understanding the Calling is ment to be ? or is ! well well, yes one calles out for Salvation, seeks Salvation ! that is the call, is it not.
So one calls but does not know in fact ! well that's a good thing but such is that of, as Bible points out, One of little faith ! now that's a good thing ? but such a one is not Saved in fact ! they are on the path to be Saved ?
But one needs the Faith that can move Mountains !
Now now, the one who calles ? may be calling for something other in fact, for such a one may reject Christ Jesus in fact ! for they seek a calling clearly of their Own wants etc etc in fact !
So all who call upon the name of the Lord ? truly means The Lord Jesus Christ ! in this.
For if one calles ? who are they calling ? another lord ?
But one is always Lost untill one is truly born again !
So one seeking ? like Islamic person is seeking the ways of god as were the Jews ! but they can never be found in fact, untill they abide in Christ Jesus in fact ! for then they know him ! and he knows them in fact and that is what the Body of Christ is in fact !
People who are not truly born again do not understand and think because Islam and Jews have a god ? that it's the same God ! Just as that idiot fool Pope Frances is in bed with them, claiming that they have the same God as Christianity ? but No ! clearly they do not ! and Pope Francis is clearly a Devil !
As The Lord is Salvation ?
But we see in the OT one calling out in the ?
Now after understanding the Calling is ment to be ? or is ! well well, yes one calles out for Salvation, seeks Salvation ! that is the call, is it not.
So one calls but does not know in fact ! well that's a good thing but such is that of, as Bible points out, One of little faith ! now that's a good thing ? but such a one is not Saved in fact ! they are on the path to be Saved ?
But one needs the Faith that can move Mountains !
Now now, the one who calles ? may be calling for something other in fact, for such a one may reject Christ Jesus in fact ! for they seek a calling clearly of their Own wants etc etc in fact !
So all who call upon the name of the Lord ? truly means The Lord Jesus Christ ! in this.
For if one calles ? who are they calling ? another lord ?
But one is always Lost untill one is truly born again !
So one seeking ? like Islamic person is seeking the ways of god as were the Jews ! but they can never be found in fact, untill they abide in Christ Jesus in fact ! for then they know him ! and he knows them in fact and that is what the Body of Christ is in fact !
People who are not truly born again do not understand and think because Islam and Jews have a god ? that it's the same God ! Just as that idiot fool Pope Frances is in bed with them, claiming that they have the same God as Christianity ? but No ! clearly they do not ! and Pope Francis is clearly a Devil !
Lambano
Well-Known Member
- Would you agree this boils down to belief in the Atonement?
- What are the implications of remission of sins through the name of Christ versus remission of sins through the Atonement?
- Why do you think it should matter?
Of course Christ knew all forgiveness is based on his blood sacrifice but Israel had to believe he was their Messiah
[Jhn 8:24 KJV] 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I recommend you tighten up the logic there; the context of John 8 does not mention being Messiah. Note the [he] is in brackets, indicating it was added by the translators. "Believe that I am"? Believe I am what? Or who? No matter. Let's address the second question:
- What are the implications of remission of sins through believing in the name of Christ versus remission of sins through believing in the Atonement?
