Pre-Trib Dispensationalism IS False

[rockytopva]

So I have stated my estimations. I would caution, though, that it is the will of the Christ for us to be ready for him to appear at any moment and at any time.

 

[Taken]

Lol
Do some kind of reality check.
Look at your vile nasty post.
It is that same spirit that attacks pretribbers, calling them names INSISTING we are guided by Satan.

Too funny how you guys seem to be devoid of the spirit of God.

They TALK about believing, about being Christian

They do Not talk about Being “converted”… applying to them, or How or Why it applies to Them.

They talk About…Jesus said…”___”.

Jesus came to Seek and Preach to the JEWS.

Jesus Chose Disciples to be Apostles, To continue Seeking and Teaching and Preaching TO the JEWS…(which included the WHOLE of the Chosen and ELECT Twelve Tribes of ISRAEL.)

Jesus EXPRESSLY Told his Disciples to NOT GO to the GENTILES.

So why are the Likes of some “calling themselves” “ Christians”…and “most likely are Gentiles” are Preaching …
what Jesus was Teaching To His Jewish Disciples, Regarding the Jewish people AND the EFFECTS of the Tribulations, upon the Jewish people, WHO Reject Jesus (IS the Christ…)
IS those Jews BEING TOLD To Teach the Gentiles?
They do not answer!

The Jewish People…briefly (some) were being Taught AND Accepting Jesus IS the Christ…
As the Apostles were dying off…So Also did teaching to the Jews (in the Synagogue's) that..Jesus IS the Christ!

So yes what Jesus was Teaching TO His Jewish Disciples, For them To Teach To The JEWS, and For the JEWS Expectation IS TRUE!

Paul, was EXPRESSLY tasked with Learning, Then…Teaching TO the GENTILES….

And according TO Paul…
The Jews OR Gentiles…”WHO”, become “Converted”….. IN Christ …
BEFORE the Tribulations sent down from Heaven…
“Are” Escap-ED, deliver-ED From wrath…and EXPRESSLY Not appointed to WRATH.

So ARE ANY JEWS Appointed TO ANY Wrath?

YES.
JEWS …who reject Belief IN God…like ANY other man, will suffer…
Wrath of the Lamb.
Wrath of the Devil.
Wrath of God.

JEWS…who believe IN God…believe IN Jesus…like any other man…will suffer…
Wrath of the Lamb.
Portions of the Wrath of the Devil.
None of the Wrath of God.

JEWS …or ANY other man…who HAS CONFESSED To the Lord…
(“Before the Tribulations sent down from heaven…”)
True Belief IN God and IN Christ Jesus…
Shall Suffer…
No wrath of the Lamb
No wrath of the Devil
No wrath of God

And…the same IN Christshall be lifted UP off the face of the Earth as Paul Reveals and as Scripture Reveals Applied to Faithful Noah (and his family), BEFORE the First Great Tribulation sent down from Heaven.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

JEWS…who believe IN God…believe IN Jesus…like any other man…will suffer…
Wrath of the Lamb.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Jews who believe in Jesus are not among those "that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ".

 

[Jay Ross]

All dispensational teaching are merely guesses...

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

If I had to guess based on my readings of scripture... The images are screenshots from what came up with in Excel along with the estimated dates....

4300 BC - Creation of Adam
2640 BC - The Great Flood
2053 AD - The Rapture of the Church
2060 AD - Christ’s coming (The 2060AD quote is a close estimation and not an exact date)
3100 AD - End of millennial and destruction of planet earth

I have man on this planet 7,400 years, and would put the accuracy of these dates within 400 years.... Taking the timeline of the church in parallel with the generations of Adam there was a severe famine during the time Noah was born. I would imagine a time of famine during the time of the Black Horseman, which days I believe we now live in....

As far as prophecies I believe that Isaac Newton was closest... And to fully quote the guy...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. -Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming may be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ's coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes..

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Dealing with the shown Chart etc. first, it suggests that Adam was created in the year 4300 BC. However, I would suggest that God created Adam around the year 4100 BC. The tabulated dates shown suggest that the end of the Millenium and the destruction of the earth will occur in 3100 AD. In my research I have determined that the end of the seventh age will occur in the year 3164 AD when the final judgement time when the separation of the Righteous from the unrighteous will occur.

In the thread Bible Chronology, I set out that I believe that the end of this present age will occur in the year 2044 AH around 15 years before when Newton had said that it would occur and how I had arrived at that conclusion which can be found in the link below. Bible Chronology.

The end of this present age will herald a 1,000-year period of peace upon the earth because God will, in around 20 years' time, remove the beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 from the face of the earth and they will be imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit.

Newton made his calculation from the available information that he had access to, around 200 years ago. I too have made my calculation from the available information that I have access to today. I would suggest that within 20 years or so this present age will end and the final age, i.e. the seventh age, will begin.

Shalom

 

[Taken]

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Yup when the Christ the Lord Jesus IS on Earth…

Has ruled His Earthly Kingdom, For 1,000 years, with His Saints, His Angels…over mortals.

Satan is Loosed, Convinced mortals to Attack Christ Jesus’ Kingdom…

And Just as Scripture Foretold…
Scripture shall come to pass…

Rev 20:
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Jews who believe in Jesus are not among those "that know not God,

So? Who said Jews that believe in Jesus Know NOT God?

and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ".

There ARE people…Jews and Gentiles…
WHO Believe IN JESUS…But NOT that Jesus is the Christ…

It is believers IN JESUS…that shall suffer the wrath of the Lamb….
Because..duh..They Rejected JESUS IS the Christ! Duh…They Are NOT IN Christ!
The Lamb of God IS the Baptizer of men IN Christ!
The Lamb of God is angry toward men who Rejected Him…
Duh… The Lamb is the First to send His Wrath during the Great Trib from Heaven!

It is Heartful believers IN Jesus AND Converted IN Christ…WHO “ARE Delivered From the wrath to come!” Raptured…lifted up off the face of the Earth!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So? Who said Jews that believe in Jesus Know NOT God?

You said that Jews who believe in Jesus will experience the wrath of the Lamb. No, they will not. Not if they are true believers and are saved. But, leave it to you to make things confusing if you are only talking about people who claim to believe in Jesus but didn't surrender their lives to Him and make Him their Lord and Savior.

There ARE people…Jews and Gentiles…
WHO Believe IN JESUS…But NOT that Jesus is the Christ…

Naturally, you didn't make it clear as to what you were talking about. Believing in Him, as in believing in His existence but not having trust in Him as your personal Lord and Savior, means nothing. Even the demons believe and tremble.

It is believers IN JESUS…that shall suffer the wrath of the Lamb….
Because..duh..They Rejected JESUS IS the Christ! Duh…They Are NOT IN Christ!

Duh. You didn't explain this in your other post that you weren't talking about people who belonged to Jesus and are saved.

It is Heartful believers IN Jesus AND Converted IN Christ…WHO “ARE Delivered From the wrath to come!” Raptured…lifted up off the face of the Earth!

Duh. No kidding. In the future, make it clear whether you're talking about true believers who are saved or not.

 

[Davy]

Reserved for the tares with their lamps half full and anything else that offends.

Jesus per Revelation 3:9 showed that even His worse enemies, the "synagogue of Satan", will still not be destroyed on that day, for they will be made to bow at the feet of Christ's elect during Jesus' future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

We know per Revelation 11:13 that "seven thousand" will be slain in the great earthquake that is to happen in the middle east on that day. But remember, destruction of one's flesh body does not destroy one's spirit with soul. The destruction of one's spirit with soul is what the "second death" of Rev.20 is for, and that don't happen until after Christ's "thousand years" reign, again per Revelation 20.

 

[Taken]

You said that Jews who believe in Jesus will experience the wrath of the Lamb. No, they will not. Not if

Thank you for disproving your own “No”…with the “IF” exception.

they are true believers and are saved.

But, leave it to you to make things confusing if you are only talking about people who claim to believe in Jesus but didn't surrender their lives to Him and make Him their Lord and Savior.

Belief IN Jesus, does Not mean, belief Jesus IS the Christ.

Naturally, you didn't make it clear as to what you were talking about. Believing in Him, as in believing in His existence but not having trust in Him as your personal Lord and Savior, means nothing. Even the demons believe and tremble.


Duh. You didn't explain this in your other post that you weren't talking about people who belonged to Jesus and are saved.


Duh. No kidding. In the future, make it clear whether you're talking about true believers who are saved or not.

Missing the Understanding?
Start Here…
God IS without Beginning or Ending.
God IS omnipresent.
God IS omnipotent.
God IS omniscient.
God does Not Change.
Holy

Next…
* Learn bit by bit, from the Beginning of Gods approved Knowledge About Him.
* That which IS IN God, IS God.
* Any Name, Any Description, Any Role that Name and Description Takes upon Himself…
Does NOT Change God…
** Rather IT REVEALS; the Manner, the Order, the Way, The Invisible Creator AND Maker, in His infinite Wisdom;
** Has Decided, Chosen, Elected To COMMUNICATE WITH His Created AND Made Celestial and Earthly Beings.

Observe the Text approved by God…
Every specific Name and Description HAS a Specific CONTEXTUAL “MEANING”…keep IN Context.

Jesus
Lord
Word
Teacher
Rabbi
Master
Lamb
Savior
Man
Son
Maker
Never Changing
Truth
Life
Sinless
Holy
Friend
Etc.
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient

* Singular Reference IN Context…
Jesus; Lord; Rabbi, Christ, etc.
* Or
Duel reference in Context…
Lord Jesus; Jesus Christ, etc.
* And Order
of reference in Context…
Jesus the Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, etc.

Mindfully…Logically…Compare yourself TO the Creator…
* Does One human;
* have multiple Names?
* have multiple Descriptions?
* Have multiple Titles?
* have multiple relationships “With/ Without”?
* have multiple Tasks?
* have ability to Change their appearance?
* have ability to put foreign objects in their body?
* have ability to communicate face to face without verbal speech?
* have ability to communicate with another millions of miles away?
On, on, on…

*** Does that MAKE that ONE human…
Multiple Humans?

*** Do you Think, Believe what IS naturally “IN” you…and you “possessively Claim”.
( Me, I, My, Mine, etc). IS YOU?

*** Do you Think, Believe, you can SEND, Your Words, Your Ideas, Your Thoughts, Your Knowledge “Forth OUT from You”…
And What?
The Same Remains “IN” you?
Or
You are Now Absent, Separated, from Your Words, Your Ideas, Your Thoughts, Your Knowledge?

* Do you Think, Believe…God “REPRODUCED” a offspring?

Simple questions …
Can you copy, paste, add your simple answers? Then, I will do the Same…


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you for disproving your own “No”…with the “IF” exception.

I had to say "if" because you don't communicate clearly. So, everyone is left to guess as to what you are intending to say. So, we're left to say "if you mean this, then...." or "if you mean that, then....".

Belief IN Jesus, does Not mean, belief Jesus IS the Christ.

No kidding. Anything else obvious that you'd like to share?

Missing the Understanding?
Start Here…
God IS without Beginning or Ending.
God IS omnipresent.
God IS omnipotent.
God IS omniscient.
God does Not Change.
Holy

Next…
* Learn bit by bit, from the Beginning of Gods approved Knowledge About Him.
* That which IS IN God, IS God.
* Any Name, Any Description, Any Role that Name and Description Takes upon Himself…
Does NOT Change God…
** Rather IT REVEALS; the Manner, the Order, the Way, The Invisible Creator AND Maker, in His infinite Wisdom;
** Has Decided, Chosen, Elected To COMMUNICATE WITH His Created AND Made Celestial and Earthly Beings.

Observe the Text approved by God…
Every specific Name and Description HAS a Specific CONTEXTUAL “MEANING”…keep IN Context.

Jesus
Lord
Word
Teacher
Rabbi
Master
Lamb
Savior
Man
Son
Maker
Never Changing
Truth
Life
Sinless
Holy
Friend
Etc.
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient

* Singular Reference IN Context…
Jesus; Lord; Rabbi, Christ, etc.
* Or
Duel reference in Context…
Lord Jesus; Jesus Christ, etc.
* And Order
of reference in Context…
Jesus the Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, etc.

Mindfully…Logically…Compare yourself TO the Creator…
* Does One human;
* have multiple Names?
* have multiple Descriptions?
* Have multiple Titles?
* have multiple relationships “With/ Without”?
* have multiple Tasks?
* have ability to Change their appearance?
* have ability to put foreign objects in their body?
* have ability to communicate face to face without verbal speech?
* have ability to communicate with another millions of miles away?
On, on, on…

*** Does that MAKE that ONE human…
Multiple Humans?

*** Do you Think, Believe what IS naturally “IN” you…and you “possessively Claim”.
( Me, I, My, Mine, etc). IS YOU?

*** Do you Think, Believe, you can SEND, Your Words, Your Ideas, Your Thoughts, Your Knowledge “Forth OUT from You”…
And What?
The Same Remains “IN” you?
Or
You are Now Absent, Separated, from Your Words, Your Ideas, Your Thoughts, Your Knowledge?

* Do you Think, Believe…God “REPRODUCED” a offspring?

Simple questions …
Can you copy, paste, add your simple answers? Then, I will do the Same…


Glory to God,
Taken

Why did you waste your time with all that babbling? What is the point? You need to take a class on how to communicate.

 

[Taken]

You said that Jews who believe in Jesus will experience the wrath of the Lamb.

True Statement.

No, they will not.

False Statement.

Not if they are true and are saved.

“IF”… “ARE” are saved?

Belief in “Jesus”…Does Not mean a man “IS” saved.

They who “ARE” saved, Believe “IN” JESUS CHRIST and “ARE” converted “IN” Christ Jesus…
Are “NOT” subject to The Wrath of the Lamb.

Jews who believe in “Jesus” will experience the wrath of the Lamb.

Did I mention “Christ” in my statement? No.

What is the point?

You need to take a class on how to communicate.

You need to take a class in paying attention to what IS actually Said.
And Learn the MEANING of “little” words that “ARE” said.

“During” the end days Tribulations…

A Living man “WHO” dies believing “IN” Jesus…
“SHALL” experience the Wrath of The Lamb.

The “WRATH” of the Lamb “IS” at the beginning of the last days Tribulations.

The “WRATH of the Lamb” “APPLIES” to every living “non-believer”….AND every Believer “IN Jesus.”

Pay ATTENTION….to what WAS SAID…
“ IN “ Jesus.

Pay ATTENTION…to WHAT was NOT SAID!

HINT….IN CHRIST …was NOT SAID!

Believers “IN” Jesus…Does NOT “magically” mean “BELIEF”…”IN CHRIST JESUS”! [/B]

It is individual living men’s Heartful BELIEF
“IN” Christ Jesus…
Who ARE saved By the Baptism of the Lamb of God

THEY, are Delivered and Risen Up to Clouds, to The Lord Jesus…
BEFORE the last days Tribulations BEGIN.

THE Lamb of God…WHO BAPTIZED THEM…
Has NO WRATH to subject “THEM” to Experience …(Like ALL others “on the face of the Earth”!)

The Power of THE CHRIST raises “THEM” Up, Before the Lambs Wrath BEGINS…ON the face of the Earth.

The Living “Believers IN Jesus” ON the earth, suffer, the Lambs Wrath….FOR “NOT Being Baptized….IN Christ…By the Lamb of God!”

They bodily DIE, with Belief…IN Jesus.
They “At that time of their bodily Death”…
God “saves” their “soul”…and their “saved soul” is RECEIVED in Heaven BY God.

Their BODIES, remain ON Earth, rotting, decomposing….
AND…”shall” Be RAISED…in the “First Resurrection.”

Point?
You do not PAY attention to what applies to WHOM, or Know WHEN WHAT does and does NOT apply to WHOM.

I don’t expect YOU to consider the step by step FACTS or the understanding to Resinate with YOU… but it may benefit another who seeks the Truth.

For those who “ARE” …”IN Christ…” words of comfort;


1 Thes. 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck themout of my hand.

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Cor 1:
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


For those who “ARE” …”IN Jesus”…words of comfort…
1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

John 10:
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Glory to God.
Taken.

 

[Davy]

....

For those who “ARE” …”IN Christ…” words of comfort;


1 Thes. 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck themout of my hand.

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Cor 1:
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


For those who “ARE” …”IN Jesus”…words of comfort…
1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

John 10:
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Let's actually understand... what those above Scriptures that Taken quoted are teaching...

Apostle Paul's subject about the "asleep" saints actually begins back at verse 13, not 15...

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

If we believe that The Father raised Lord Jesus from the dead, then Jesus will also bring those "asleep" saints that have already died with Him when He comes.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The KJV word "prevent" means 'precede', or 'go beforehand' in the Greek. Those of us still alive on earth on that day shall not precede the "asleep" saints. That means Jesus gathers the "asleep" saints from heaven first, and brings them with Him.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

When Jesus comes, the "asleep" saints that had already died in Christ, shall resurrect first. That means the future RESURRECTION EVENT. Per John 6:40, Jesus showed that future resurrection occurs on the LAST DAY of this present world, which is when He comes. That is NOT prior to the "great tribulation", but AFTER the "great tribulation", just as Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.


John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
KJV

Those who claim to believe on Jesus Christ, yet... they follow men instead, do they really belong to Jesus?? Sorry to say, but no, they do not. Christ is talking about His elect that KEEP HIS WORD, and not man's word! There is a difference! Those who follow the doctrines of men do not represent His sheep. Thus that John 10 Scripture by just quoting that single verse 28 while omitting that condition of verse 27 can be deceiving.

The false pre-trib rapture school loves... to quote that single verse of 1 Thess.5:9 by Paul, while omitting the rest of Paul's story he gave in that chapter. Paul was pointing to how he had no need to remind the brethren there about "the times and the seasons", meaning the signs of the end to be watching, particularly first shown in the OT prophets. Paul even mentions events about the end when the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" comes upon them. Paul timed those events with the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night". And he said that coming WRATH we in Christ are not appointed to. But what the false pre-trib rapture school does, and they try to turn that into a fake rapture PRIOR to the "great tribulation" being how we will not be appointed to that WRATH. The pre-trib rapture school thus LIES about the timing of that 1 Thess.5 Scripture by Apostle Paul!

I feel genuinely sorry for those pre-trib rapture theory churches, because their preachers are TWISTING God's written Word just to fit the false 1830's theory of a rapture prior to the tribulation. And they do that while STEALING the people's money!

 

[Taken]

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Hiim.

Asleep “IN Jesus” God will bring with Him.
First Resurrection

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

Asleep / Alive “IN CHRIST”…The Lord will call UP to Him.. Rapture.

 

[Taken]

When Jesus comes, the "asleep" saints that had already died in Christ, shall resurrect first.

No.

Very long Response…
The (Lords) “secret” coming is His (the Lords) descent…
From Heaven TO the clouds.
He (the Lord) Calls UP to Him (the Lord) the DEAD BODY’S of they WHO bodily DIED IN CHRIST.
He (the Lord) HAS WITH Him (The Lord)…
The Saved souls, the Quickened Spirits, OF THOSE “saints”…and Returns…THEIR…
Saved souls, Quickened spirits TO their “GLORIFIED” risen (to the clouds) bodies.

That EVENT…is CALLED A RAPTURE …

It is SECRET, QUICK, works OF the Lord…
That which THOSE left ON EARTH will not SEE, or Know, the EVENT has Happened.

…of the Dead IN Christ…the Lord descends to the Clouds…(and has with Him, their saved souls and quickened spirits) and returns their saved souls and quickened spirits To their risen glorified bodies.

Immediately following…
Is the Lord’s works regarding men still Bodily Alive ON Earth…who are ARE
IN CHRIST …
* Their Saved soul is IN their body…Their Quickened spirit is IN their body…
THEIR BODY IS CHANGED / MADE GLORIFIED and ARE called UP to the Clouds to meet the Lord IN the Air…

(Some men ON Earth, May or May Not See Earthly Bodys Rising Up…
Just as SOME earthly men SAW Jesus’ Body Rising Up…and disappear out of their Sight INTO the Clouds.

What ALL men Left ON the Earth KNEW…when Jesus’ body rose up to the clouds…WAS Jesus was NO LONGER “ON the EARTH”.

What men LEFT ON Earth WILL KNOW… IS MILLIONS of People ALL OVER the Earth…(IN an INSTANT), Has (unexplainably, Secretly, From THEIR EYES)…Disappeared From the Face of the Earth!

That IS a “RAPTURE”….NOT a “Resurrection”!
A RESURRECTION…IS “DEAD” Bodys being RAISED …ON or IN the Earth….
A RAPTURE…IS “DEAD and LIVING” Bodys being “MADE Glorified”…and RAISED “ABOVE the EARTH.”

Your convenient (ignorant of, ignoring of, or skipping that DETAIL)….
Reveals in part WHY…you LACK the Understanding…and Pretend you can MAKE…
The RAPTURE and RESURRECTION…mean the Same thing…IT Doesn’t.

Nor does A Rapture and Resurrection APPLY to the Same individuals.

Rapture APPLIES EXPRESSLY to those IN Christ

Rapture APPLIES to those “IN” Christ the Lord Jesus’ HAND.

Rapture APPLIES to them The Lord Jesus RISES UP OFF the Face of the EARTH TO Him (the Lord), IN the Clouds.

They who ARE living NOW, or During the Trib…who Bodily Die….AT the Time of their Bodily Death…. Bodily Die BELIEVING “IN” JESUS…God Shall Raise them their Body’s up “ON” the Earth, during Judgement Day.

No one Shall Prevent Those IN Jesus, from being TAKEN OUT of The HAND of God!
Continued…

 

[Taken]

Continued…@Davy
(Are you slightly aware…millions of Jews BELIEVE “IN Jesus”…. But NOT that He (Jesus) IS the Christ?)

They ARE NOT “IN Christ”…
They Die “IN Jesus”…and they shall be Resurrected “BY God” In the First Resurrection.

You Quote the Scriptures…
Then (erroneously) EXPLAIN what YOU think the Scriptures have said…
Then tongue Lash others…IN Christ, who Know and Understand the Truth…

In The Fathers HAND… IS Those “IN” Jesus…WORD)
Jesus IS the Word of God…
From the beginning of manKIND, men WHO believed GODS WORD…WERE…IN Jesus… for centuries BEFORE the NAME of Gods Word was REVEALED! (Ancient men EVEN asked Him His Name, and He told them it was “SECRET” to them…( Not yet time to be Revealed).
* Those men WERE…the Elect of God…called…chosen…Became (through the centuries)…called…Hebrews, then 12 tribes, then the Jews….
* AND began “INCLUDING” Gentiles (through Gods Power)…CHRIST…and (Servant) Paul…

Deut. 29:
[29] The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever…

Judg 13:
[18] And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

* Primarily…the Jews “remain IN Jesus and Gentiles primarily have chosen to become Crucified With Jesus, and “MADE”… “Re-Born” …Soul Saved…and B] IN Christ [/B].

* those “IN Christ”…have ALREADY willingly LAID Down unto Death, THER BODILY LIFE(as one bodily Death IS Required)…ONCE (CRUCIFIED with Jesus Christ’s Body).
They Are IN Jesus’ Hand and Raised by THE Lord Jesus…Rapture.
They suffer NO Wrath of the Baptizer, (Lamb of God) , WHO Baptized them “IN CHRIST.”

Those “ IN Jesus ”…we’re Not, ARE Not … Baptized, IN Christ! And….(When Tribulations come down from Heaven)… They NOT Baptized by the Baptizer (Lamb of God)…
UH …duh…They Suffer the WRATH of The Lamb ] (7 Seal Judgements)..
b/cuz…uh…the Lamb is Angry with them FOR NOT accepting HIS BAPTISM during their Lifetime…and becoming “MADE”, IN Christ!
They Bodily Die…who bodily Die “IN Jesus”…God searches their Heart, that Yes they believed in Gods Word (JESUS)… God saves their soul, sends their departed soul to Heaven…and their Body rots…waiting FOR the First Resurrection for God TO raise UP “ their Body ON Earth, and the Lord Jesus, bring their Saved soul to their Glorified Body.

Rev 6: beginning of The Trib sent from Heaven
The judgement of the 7 SEALS…
See WHO opens the SEALS.
See WHO is the Lamb Mad AT…
IT IS those who Rejected The Lambs Baptism IN Christ!
They…face The Lambs Wrath!

Rev 6: (Seal 1 opened)
[1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6: 3…(Seal 2 opened)
Rev 6: 5…(Seal 3 opened)
Rev 6: 7…(Seal 4 opened)
Rev 6: 9…(Seal 5 opened)
Rev 6: 12..(Seal 6 opened)
Rev 16: - 17:…(men suffering Recognize AND Say….uh oh… (the Wrath of The Lamb is Revealed and UPON Them).

Rev 7: (IN Heaven)
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[15] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 7:4….an interum…of God Sending TO Earth, His Saved Reserve of Teachers For the UN-saved JEWS…
Gods Reserve….144 Thousand Tribsemen..
Sent…They Become MADE…SEALED…AND MARKED(can not Die).

Rev 8: 7… The 144,000 are Sealed…& MARKED.

The First Set of 7 Judgements, (Seals), Tribulations (destructions, Wrath of the Lamb)…Have Almost Finished.

Continued…

 

[Taken]

Continued…@Davy
Rev 8:7…the NEXT SET of 7 Judgements, (Trumpets Sounded), Tribulations, wraths are prepared to Begin.

Rev 8: 11…The LAST 7th SEAL is opened (of the Wrath of The Lamb) UPON the inhabitants of the Earth….BY the Lamb of God (Who is in Heaven)

SEALS judgement ended…WRATH of the Devil begins. He also is Angry for men still alive ON Earth Refusing, rejecting to Believe IN him! Refusing his MARK.

Rev 8:7 First Trump of the 7 Trump Judgements…

Wrath of the Devil..
Rev 12:12

Continued…

 

[Taken]

Continued…@Davy

This is all probably too deep of things you Have not step by step, bit by bit, Gods Order and Way…of What Occurs When and WHO it Applies to and Why…. And if you bother to read, verify OR NOT…no affect on me.
Expect you Will again have your trusty “come back” of “accusing babbling…and accusing of making no sense…and accusing of twisting Gods Word…and accusing of being taught by false corrupt teachers IN corrupt money grubbing churches”…

Your accusing is irrelevant.
Your evading to Reveal ANY Scripture…or the Express Purpose of MEN IN Christ to BE on the Face of the Earth DURING The End of Days Tribulations, Judgements, Wraths sent Down from Heaven….
is Very revealing …that you have Zero to back up Claims for a man IN Christ to be ON the EARTH in those days.

FYI… I don’t “go” to or am I a member of a man-made church….for you to accuse.
What taught me Gods Word…is Gods Approved Written Scriptures.
Who continues to Teach me and give me Gods Understanding IS my Teacher, Lord Jesus.
Who Baptiz-ED me IN Christ , According to Gods (not yours) Order and Way…is the Lamb of God.
Who has NOT appointed me to suffer Gods Tribulations and Wraths sent down from Heaven, IS God.
Who forgave my sin (of having been naturally born Against God,) IS God.
Who Restored and Saved my soul, is Jesus.
WHO Quickened my Spirit, is the Seed and Power of God (ie. Christ).
Who Baptiz-Ed me with those things IS, The Lamb of God.
Who Keeps me WITH the Lord God Almighty Forever…iS Gods Power (Christ).
Who shall call and Rise up my body Above the Face of the Earth, (to Escape the Tribulations, Judgements, wraths, sent down from Heaven)…Is Christ the Lord Jesus….(While The Lamb, the devil and God bombards the Earths Occupants with Wraths, Tribulations and Judgements).


* Who IS not appointed to suffer…Tribulations, Judgements, Wraths sent down From Heaven By the Authority and Power of God?….me…and all others…
Who have Elected, Chosen, Taken The Lord God Almighty’s Offerings to Be Forgiven and Secure WITH Him Forever.
You apparently PLAN to be present upon the face of the EARTH…during the Last days Trib.
Okay…your option, by rejecting the Lambs Baptism IN Christ.
Because…
FYI…the Only ones ON the face of the Earth…
Excluded from Bodily Death…
* Are a Few believing Jews…who are the remnant of mortals, tasked with repopulating the Earth during Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign….
And
The 144 thousand, (all Tribesmen /ISRAEL) who Have Gods Name on their Foreheads.
(The only ones / so far) who have Gods Mark ON Them…The rest of the Saved do NOT receive Gods Mark UNTIL AFTER Judgement Day.

None IN CHRIST are ON the Earth…during the Great Tribulations, Judgements and Wrath sent down from Heaven.

No Scripture IN Revelations Speak of Those IN Christ Being Present ON the face of the Earth or doing anything …in THOSE Last Days of Tribulations, Wraths, sent down from Heaven…against…

God bless you…that you may learn the Truth, trust the Truth and Understand the Truth…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

No Scripture IN Revelations Speak of Those IN Christ Being Present ON the face of the Earth or doing anything …in THOSE Last Days of Tribulations, Wraths, sent down from Heaven…against…

A false assertion.
Revelation 13:7 mentions Gods peoples.... and Revelation 12:17 says how Christians will be persecuted.

Your entire paradigm is wrong and you promote things that are never said to happen.
We must endure until the end, the simple truth and any other ideas are from the depths of hell.

 

[Scott Downey]

The verses say exactly the opposite of that. They say that the rapture must take place AFTER the great falling away takes place first.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The first thing to understand about this passage is that "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" and "our gathering together unto him" referenced in verse 1 is the event Paul calls "the day of Christ" or "the day of the Lord" in verse 2 and he refers to it as "that day" in verse 3. This should be obvious to anyone who reads the passage objectively.

So, what Paul said in this passage is that what has to happen first before the day that our Lord Jesus Christ comes and we're gathered to Him is "a falling away" and also "that man of sin be revealed". The idea that the rapture has to occur before the falling away is not indicated in the text whatsoever.


What are you basing this on? Show it in the text itself. I don't see that at all. Instead, it indicates that the man of sin has to be revealed first before the rapture takes place.

Pre tribbers explain that by saying the rapture is a secret return and that verse you show is the return when all see Him. But then you must explain away there being only a second coming of Christ and also believe in a third coming of Christ, and scripture only speaks of a second time when He returns. There is no third time.

Hebrew 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Great tribulation with the wrath of God. Well God's wrath is against them that do evil right now. God gives them tribulation when He returns, and when Christ returns, He gives rest to God's people.

Now please read when do the people of God gain rest? And notice that the tribulations the church endures is of God as manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God against the wicked and the justification of the church counted worthy of the kingdom of God. The church gains rest-relief at the fiery return of Christ. The only second time returning, no third return.

2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Thessalonians 1 utterly dismisses any pre trib rapture being possible.
If you study that, you must logically agree with the text.