My job isnt to investigate every person that has a youtube clip and give everyone the run down on all of their history. I dont know if someone is falsely accusing the man or whether the accusations are true. It feels wrong to go through all of that and highlight things that come through people I do not know and drag any mans name through the mud. That is coming too close to reviling a man (I dont know) through others (I do not know).
The demon behind Woke, affirming and false teachers
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My job isnt to investigate every person that has a youtube clip and give everyone the run down on all of their history. I dont know if someone is falsely accusing the man or whether the accusations are true. It feels wrong to go through all of that and highlight things that come through people I do not know and drag any mans name through the mud. That is coming too close to reviling a man (I dont know) through others (I do not know).
I think it can be very easy in this social media type enviroment to get caught up with the gossip on everyones lives and begin backbiting on them if or when a video they might appear in comes to our attention (which has nothing to do with any of that). Rather than just let the conversation be around what is being said in the video we need to go find things on them.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of the last verse in the book of Judges.
In those days Israel had no king; all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes.
Our compassion should guide us to recognize everyone does the best they can - and this includes every generation. My father was one of 8. Not only did he have to share a room, he had to share a bed. Food was scarce. They ate fast and the slow went hungry. This family arrangement is not unlike the law of the jungle. In opulence today, we'd take the children from the parents, accuse them of neglect or abuse. But what becomes of our superior morals when there is no better place for the children to be? Humility.
Moreover, we should not judge the past based on 21st century morals. In centuries future, what we do now and is totally acceptable may be thought of then as reprehensible, e.g., using electricity, eating flesh or processed "foods," vaccinating children, etc.
In Star Trek TNG it was discovered that warp engines accumulated a residual space warp, meaning that in the future warp speed would be impossible. They never resolved their dilemma. And that sums up the human condition. (But we are blessed. With Christ, Israel has a king and so do we.)
The type of slavery in the bible was generally servitude. Often times it was out of necessity though sometimes it was as a punishment. Even then there were caveats on how a slave should be treated and it wasn't always a permanent thing. But the type of slavery practiced during the African slave trade was expressly condemned:
Exd 20:15 You shall not steal.
Exd 21:16 He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.
Deu 24:7 If a man is found kidnapping any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and mistreats him or sells him, then that kidnapper shall die; and you shall put away the evil from among you.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Slavery is slavery. No point in sugar coating the fact that the Bible accepts slavery as an economic system.
So much for the edict,test the spirits.
An argument for gullibility falls flat.As it should.
In any study within the scope of our faith we are compelled to consider the source of any material afforded our consideration.
Thinking we should accept a video,an article, as credible and worthy of informing our understanding without question is naive and irresponsible.
I believe he was just quoting Jesus in the book of Revelation in that small clip
What?
Jesus was the source, he was quoting Jesus
He was not introducing something new but quoting Jesus about Jezebel, why do I need to do a full investigation on someone and pick them to shreds for sharing something out of the scripture every time is beyond me.
True. Christianity is not about tolerance. Nor is God.
I haven't seen it air in quite awhile however, last year there this commercial defending illegal immigration and implicating Jesus,as if He would approve premiered as a Super Bowl ad. That cost millions.
This is the refugee portion. It was a very costly9ng running ad.
There is a distinction between slavery and servitude, and just because it was commonly practiced in those days is not a tacit endorsement. It's just telling how things were back then. Otherwise, we could say that same about polygamy as it was also commonly practiced in Biblical times.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Right. The Bible uses the word slavery. There is no distinction between slavery and slavery.
Sure, it is! Check the definition.
Stop white washing the Bible. Again, God, not man created slavery, and it was initiated in Egypt by the people as a means of survival, which is endorsed in Scripture. The basic message of the Bible is Pro-Life. Choose Life. And, like it or not, slavery is a means of survival.
And this is a very important point we don't want to acknowledge today. We think of slavery as something that selfishly benefits only the slave owner. Joseph in the Bible shows how slavery is a benefit to the slave. Otherwise, they would not have volunteered - not for servitude but slavery.
Sure there is; context is everything. Slavery wasn't a choice, was usually permanent, had very few protections, and was the result of being captured in war or punishment. Servitude was out of necessity or by choice, was temporary unless they pledged lifelong servitude, had certain protections, and was treated like a hired worker. There was a big difference in how the Israelites treated one another and how they treated foreigners with regards to slavery/servitude.
I don't see that in scripture, nor is it in the Ten Commandments. "Do not steal" would actually condemn the practice of slavery as we generally understand it today.
The Hebrews did come to come to Egypt as slaves, that came later. God is the one who delivered them from that bondage.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are playing word games. The Bible uses the word slavery.
Exodus 21 (ESV)
Laws About Slaves
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave ...
Stop reading into Scripture that God meant a word that better appeals to your sensibilities. A is A. Slavery is slavery.
Irrelevant.
Just because you do not see that God created the institution of slavery does not make it so. Study the Curse of Ham.
Your claim that God instituting slavery violates the Commandment against stealing is absurd on its face as he spells out the rules of slavery in the very next chapter after giving the 10 Commandments. Context! The Bible is filled with God having input to booty, meaning taking slaves from war is an accepted practice by the almighty.
Numbers 31:9–11 (NRSV)
9 The Israelites took the women of Midian and their little ones captive; and they took all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods as booty. 10 All their towns where they had settled, and all their encampments, they burned, 11 but they took all the spoil and all the booty, both people and animals.
Numbers 31:25-47 (ISV)
Offerings from War Booty
25 Then the LORD told Moses, 26 “Take an inventory of the booty that was taken in the battle,[a] both of humans and of animals. Then you, Eleazar the priest, and the leaders of the fathers of the community 27 are to divide the booty between the warriors who went to war and the rest of the community.
Numbers 31:36-40
God’s Portion of the War Booty
36 Now half of the share of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep, 37 so the LORD’s tribute from the sheep totaled 675. 38 The cattle numbered 36,000, so the LORD’s tribute totaled 72. 39 The donkeys numbered 30,500, so the LORD’s tribute totaled 61. 40 The people[c] numbered 16,000, so the LORD’s tribute totaled 32 people.
You just want to white wash the Bible. John MacArthur spoke about how many Christians want to take God off the hook. He is fine being on the hook and perfectly capable of defending his choices - if anyone is so foolish as to question the almighty as if they are morally superior and in a position to judge their own creator.
The Bible does not merely record the institution of slavery as a historical fact. God instituted it and commanded the Hebrews how to divide the slaves as booty for themselves and for him. Also, consider this theologically. Matthew 6:14-15: where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. The necessary consequence is those who reject the Lord are enslaved - and that is not a temporary condition!
In referencing the story of Joseph, I was not referring to the Hebrews but the Egyptians. The Egyptians made a deal with the king. Food in exchange for their property. When that was exhausted and they were still starving, they then offered themselves as slaves. This shows that taking one as a slave is an act of mercy, even though it offends our modern and delicate sensibilities. Sometimes God was not so merciful as to offer slavery to the vanquished.
1 Samuel 15:3 (ESV)
Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
That one here was more about God's revenge and willing to execute his wrath because of what Amalek did as recording below
Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this or a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Exodus 17:16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.
Shows us the reason here
Duet 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
Duet 25:18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.
Amalek showed no mercy
Duet 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.
He never forgot it either,
1Sam 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
Therefore as no mercy was shown to them by Amalek no mercy is being shown to Amalek
2Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
He was even angry at Saul when His firce wrath wasnt executed upn Amalek here...
1Sam 28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek,
therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
It does speak of God being willing to show His wrath. And also what Saul did not do (in the very execution of it) Samuel finishes it saying,
1Sam 15:3 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
It was a sort of breach for breach, and as it was done to another by Amalek so it shall be done unto him again, bringing evil upon his own house.
Duet 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that since Saul did not kill the Amalekites, an Amalekite killed Saul.
2 Samuel 1:5-10 -
So David said to the young man who told him, “How do you know that Saul and Jonathan his son are dead?”
6 Then the young man who told him said, “As I happened by chance to be on Mount Gilboa, there was Saul, leaning on his spear; and indeed the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him. 7 Now when he looked behind him, he saw me and called to me. And I answered, ‘Here I am.’ 8 And he said to me, ‘Who are you?’ So I answered him, ‘I am an Amalekite.’ 9 He said to me again, ‘Please stand over me and kill me, for anguish has come upon me, but my life still remains in me.’ 10 So I stood over him and killed him, because I was sure that he could not live after he had fallen. And I took the crown that was on his head and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them here to my lord.”
Beautiful Rockerduck! I had not even taken noticed this! I love this when I can add to what I have and this is just a perfect addition to it!
Wow! In the end his own life was not spared by those he spared. I heard stories of people who promoted illegals to come to their own countries only to have their own lives taken by those who they advocated for.
Praise the LORD thank you for that one!
"Servant" is also in the Bible, and depending which translation you read, it can either say either "servant" or "slave". The nuance isn't always conveyed in the English translation, but there is clearly a distinction between the two whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
God didn't institute slavery, He regulated it. Slavery existed well before the Law was given and was universally practiced everywhere.
I wouldn't call that an act of mercy, I'd call it an act of desperation, one that led to them being in bondage.
If slavery is so great, and God instituted it, then why did God deliver the Hebrews out of slavery in Egypt?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The terms are not synonyms but can overlap, depending on the sense. For instance, in Ancient Rome slaves were allowed to own money and some were so skilled they were wealthier than their owners. Such people were technically slaves but could be honored to be called servants.
Denial. Apparently, you did not study up on the curse of Ham.
If slavery is so great?! Slavery is a curse! Just because it comes from God does not mean it is a blessing.
IMO, Christendom has become way over-spiritualized. Consequently, many forget God is to be feared with good reason for he is the source of curses, as well as blessings, evil as well as good.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
It is the followers of Christ who risks their own safety by choosing to love their enemies, heal the sick, serve the poor and love those who are cast out, imprisoned or powerless.The opposite message is being put out and its not from God and it offers wealth power and safety the same three thing Satan tempted Jesus with which some Christians have accepted as the path forward.All politicians are corrupt this world is corrupt.
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