Pre-Trib Dispensationalism IS False

[The Light]

QUOTE
"At the end of wrath, the armies of heaven come for Armageddon. How long it takes the kings of the earth to gather their armies is irrelevant"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is this:
Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

But you are saying that is prewrath

Of course it prewrath. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord.

The tribulation of those days.............which is the great tribulation is over as God shortened it so there would be believers that would be raptured alive. If the days were not shortened, all believers would be found and killed before Jesus returned for the harvest at the 6th seal.

 

[Douggg]

At the end of wrath, the armies of heaven come for Armageddon. How long it takes the kings of the earth to gather their armies is irrelevant.

But you give them zero days to gather in your interpretation of the sixth seal being after the great tribulation is over. And you give them no reason to gather that armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on the lamb.

I missed the part where I said that. Can you point it out to me?

You give no explanation to where the 1290 days and 1335th day fall on the time line and why. And you deny what I show on my chart.

You also don't explain why Daniel 12:12 that them who wait and come to the 1335th day is blessed.

 

[The Light]

But you give them zero days to gather in your interpretation of the sixth seal being after the great tribulation is over.

It's irrelevant and an unknown number.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. There is a rapture at the 6th seal as the angels are sent to gather the elect. The seventh seal is the one year wrath of God. Some time before the 7th trumpet sounds Armageddon will occur........in the 7 thunders is likely.

And you give them no reason to gather that armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on the lamb.

You need a reason for them to gather? The reason is that the Word of God says that Armageddon will happen. That's good enough for me.

You give no explanation to where the 1290 days and 1335th day fall on the time line and why. And you deny what I show on my chart.

You also don't explain why Daniel 12:12 that them who wait and come to the 1335th day is blessed.

The days happen at the end.

 

[Douggg]

It's irrelevant and an unknown number.

That your interpretation provides zero days for the armies to gather to prepare for war is relevant - because it is impossible. The armies have to have some time, not no time as in your interpretation.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. There is a rapture at the 6th seal as the angels are sent to gather the elect. The seventh seal is the one year wrath of God. Some time before the 7th trumpet sounds Armageddon will occur........in the 7 thunders is likely.

You are stating (in red) the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal, but it is not true.

Also, Matthew 24:31 is not a rapture.

The days happen at the end.

That is not a timeline placement of the 1290 days and the 1335th day relevant to each other.

Make a timeline chart like I have done for the 1290 days and the 1335 days according to your interpretations and understandings, and post it. I make my charts with Corel PaintShop Pro. It does not cost much, and is available at Amazon. There will be a learning on how to use it curve, but over the long haul, it will be time well invested.

 

[The Light]

That your interpretation provides zero days for the armies to gather to prepare for war is relevant - because it is impossible. The armies have to have some time, not no time as in your interpretation.

It's an unknown and irrelevant number. Choose any number that you want for the armies to prepare for war. I don't care. It's totally and completely irrelevant.

Daniel 12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So from 1290 days to 1335 days is 45 days.

Blessed is he that waiteth for 45 days for the armies to prepare for war.

Does that make any sense to you?
I keep telling you to put down the sledgehammer and quit beating things into places that do not agree with scripture.

How do you come up with this stuff? Why do you come up with this stuff? It is unscriptural.

You are stating (in red) the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal, but it is not true.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days.........at the 6th seal.......there are signs of the sun, moon and stars. I don't know how to make you understand simple logic using scripture as the tool. But obviously there are signs in the sun, moon and stars that occur immediately after the tribulation and also when the 6th seal is opened. We don't need to do anything but believe what is written.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Also, Matthew 24:31 is not a rapture.

Well...........

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Sending His angels to gather the elect is certainly not a war. It's a harvest. It's a rapture.

That is not a timeline placement of the 1290 days and the 1335th day relevant to each other.

Make a timeline chart like I have done for the 1290 days and the 1335 days according to your interpretations and understandings, and post it. I make my charts with Corel PaintShop Pro. It does not cost much, and is available at Amazon. There will be a learning on how to use it curve, but over the long haul, it will be time well invested.

I don't want to spend the time. There is no learning curve, I already know how to do it.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So from 1290 days to 1335 days is 45 days.

Blessed is he that waiteth for 45 days for the armies to prepare for war.

Does that make any sense to you?

That's not what I show on my chart. I show "blessed" to reign and rule with Jesus.

I don't want to spend the time. There is no learning curve, I already know how to do it.

I don't think you can make a chart showing the 1290 days and 1335 days according to interpretations and understandings.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It's an unknown and irrelevant number. Choose any number that you want for the armies to prepare for war. I don't care. It's totally and completely irrelevant.

Daniel 12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So from 1290 days to 1335 days is 45 days.

Blessed is he that waiteth for 45 days for the armies to prepare for war.

Does that make any sense to you?
I keep telling you to put down the sledgehammer and quit beating things into places that do not agree with scripture.

How do you come up with this stuff? Why do you come up with this stuff? It is unscriptural.




Immediately after the tribulation of those days.........at the 6th seal.......there are signs of the sun, moon and stars. I don't know how to make you understand simple logic using scripture as the tool. But obviously there are signs in the sun, moon and stars that occur immediately after the tribulation and also when the 6th seal is opened. We don't need to do anything but believe what is written.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Well...........

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Sending His angels to gather the elect is certainly not a war. It's a harvest. It's a rapture.


I don't want to spend the time. There is no learning curve, I already know how to do it.

Ahem.
Post wrath IS POST TRIB.
Jesus IN NO WAY AND NOPLACE returns prewrath in power and great glory.

BTW, "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God" IS POST ARMEGEDDON.
So you are confusing many things in trying to make "trib" and "great trib" of Jesus words in mat 24 as anything but the 7 yr great trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Of course it prewrath. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord.

The tribulation of those days.............which is the great tribulation is over as God shortened it so there would be believers that would be raptured alive. If the days were not shortened, all believers would be found and killed before Jesus returned for the harvest at the 6th seal.

You are so focused on words "seal" and "seals", you can not understand Jesus returns on white horses in power and great glory.i already showed you that NOWHERE does he return in any rapture in " power and great glory "

But you are determined to miss interpret Rev 6 alongside mat 24.

You really think Rev 6 and 7 are in chronological order?????
You DO REALIZE that in your methodology of "word/ definition with chronology as literal" you now have the 144k sealed AFTER your supposed power and glory coming mid trib????
( or your modern methods of " postrib/ prewrath" since in your book there is no 70th week)

 

[The Light]

That's not what I show on my chart. I show "blessed" to reign and rule with Jesus.

You could write rainbows and butterflies on your chart but that would not prove 45 days were for the armies preparing for war. The seventh seal is one year of vengeance.

 

[Simonides]

.

 

[The Light]

Ahem.
Post wrath IS POST TRIB.

Not really. Of course, most that think they are post trib think they are post wrath but they are not.

According to the Word of God, the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The tribulation is Satans time to hunt down those that do not take the mark.

The Day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God and a day of vengeance is God time to punish an evil unbelieving world.

Jesus IN NO WAY AND NOPLACE returns prewrath in power and great glory.

The fact that you are not able to understand what is right in front of your face does not change the truth of the scripture.

Do you see any signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19. No.

Do you see any angels gathering the elect in Revelation 19. No.

Do you think that when Jesus shows up for the second harvest with His angels that He won't show up in power and glory?

There is no evidence that supports your position. All the evidence shows that Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days and before the wrath of God.


Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

BTW, "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God" IS POST ARMEGEDDON.

EXCELLENT. You got something correct.

So how it that you understand that Armageddon is over at the 7th trumpet and yet you want to place the vials coming after the 7th trumpet. Your very post proves your past arguments were in error.

Both the trumpet and vial happen in the same timeframe which is the 7th seal, Day of the Lord, Wrath of God.

So you are confusing many things in trying to make "trib" and "great trib" of Jesus words in mat 24 as anything but the 7 yr great trib.

Please produce any evidence that the tribulation period is 7 years long. There is a 70th week of Daniel. There is also a period of 7 years from the time a covenant with many is made until the things of Daniel 9 are complete. But there is absolutely no evidence that the tribulation is 7 years.

Produce one scripture if there is a 7 year tribulation. You can't.

The tribulation does not begin until the abomination of desolation is set up, and that's not at the beginning of the week.

 

[The Light]

Dispensationalism is FALSE
(and heretical nonsense)
FIFY

I realize you are unable to understand that there will be a rapture of the Church before the tribulation. However, you should be able to use a dictionary to educate yourself on what a heretic is.

 

[Simonides]

.

 

[Davy]

Not only is the Pre-tribulational Rapture theory false, and not written in God's Word, but our Heavenly Father Himself revealed even back in the Old Testament Book of Ezekiel that there would exist such a false doctrine as the pre-trib rapture theory at the end of this world, and how He... is against it and those who preach it.

Turn with me to Ezekiel 13, and this is going to be line upon line, verse by verse, a fairly in-depth Bible study which you, the Bible student, will be required to check out for yourself.

Ezek 13
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, 'Hear ye the word of the LORD;
3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Reading the above, some might think, "Oh, God isn't giving this to His Church, because He is pointing to Israel and their prophets." How little you know about Bible history if you think that. A bit of Bible history is required here for those who think that...

Per 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17, God split the old kingdom of Israel into TWO separate kingdoms. The "house of Israel" was about ONLY the ten northern tribes that dwelt in the northern holy lands, and were not known as Jews. They became the "kingdom of Israel" by God's Hand with His setting up Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim as its king at Samaria in the north. This ten-tribed northern "kingdom of Israel" would then later be scattered by God for falling away from Him, and they would be lost in the countries among the Gentiles. In the Book of Hosea God revealed what would happen to the ten-tribe "house of Israel", that He would scatter them to the wilderness, to new lands, and let them have their full Baal idol worship they forgot Him for. But a time would come when He would give them a 'new covenant', and take the names of Baali out of their mouths, and call God "Ishi". Apostle Paul referred to these along with believing Gentiles as being in The Gospel of Jesus Christ, per Romans 9:24-26.

To be blunt with the above history of the "house of Israel", Biblically, they became the Western Christian Nations of history after The Gospel was rejected by the majority of Jews at Jerusalem, and was then preached to Asia Minor and Europe which accepted Jesus Christ on national scales, Great Britain being the first nation to do that on a national scale.

Then the above Ezekiel 13:5 points to those false prophets not having gone into the gaps (i.e., not having healed breaches or holes in the understanding of God's people), and not made up the hedge (fence or wall) for the ten lost tribe "house of Israel", so that they may be able to stand... in the "BATTLE" of the "day of the Lord". Do you know what 'day' that is brethren in Christ? That is the final day of THIS PRESENT WORLD, the day when Jesus comes with His army from Heaven to end Satan's one-world beast kingdom.

So now, are you gonna' try and say this Ezekiel 13 Scripture is all past history? Nah, that would be a lie, as God is pointing to the VERY END HERE with that Ezekiel 13:5 verse about the Christian Church and the "foxes" that have crept into it. Read on, because God is going to show us who these "foxes" are that tell lies to His people.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, "The LORD saith": and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, "The LORD saith it"; albeit I have not spoken?

Those "foxes", false prophets that have crept in among God's people, claim, "God said" when He did NOT say what they claim. God even calls what they do as "lying divination"!


8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of My people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

What God has warned in the above, that is not just for the false prophets among the Jews, or Judaism. It is especially about the false prophets that creep in among the Christian Church, because God said He made Ezekiel a prophet to the ten tribe "house of Israel", and those were the main starters of the early western Christian Church in Europe and Asia Minor, along with a remnant of believing Jews.

So God is speaking this is TO... The Christian Church, and not just the nation of Israel. And there will be direct... evidence of this later on in this Ezekiel 13 Chapter.

For the pastors and preachers like these in Christ Church today, I'd advise paying attention to the above from our Heavenly Father. Those who preach what He says these do, will not... be joined with Christ when He comes and takes His faithful to future Jerusalem to begin His "thousand years" reign there.

10 Because, even because they have seduced My people, saying, "Peace"; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

Do you know what idea about the end of this world God is pointing to in the above verse? Do you recall Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5 for when the deceived and wicked say, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" on that "day of the Lord" will come upon them? God is pointing to the fake world peace which the final Antichrist is coming to create at the very end... of this world, during the coming "great tribulation".

In the above God refers to that time of fake peace at the end of this world as a wall built with untempered mortar. That idea of untempered mortar means a type of construction mortar to glue bricks or stones together that never hardens. It stays soft so when the rain storms come, it melts away, and therefore that wall does what? It comes tumbling down to the ground. God is using that metaphor for what these false prophets preach, saying, "The LORD saith", and He did not speak to them.

11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

You should realize by now what timeline God is pointing with that "overflowing shower", and "great hailstones", etc. He is pointing to the very last day of this present world when Jesus returns, the "day of the Lord". On that future "day of the Lord", Satan's host of armies he draws out of the northern quarters of the earth per Ezekiel 38 & 39, are to go up against the land of Israel on the final day of this world. God has prophesied that He will rain great hailstones the size of a talent (70 to 120 lbs. each) on that great army coming up against His people on that day. Thus that's yet another pointer here in Ezekiel 13 to the end of this present world, revealing this is defnitely not Old Testament dead history.

12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, "Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?"
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.
14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, "The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

Again, God gives comparisons of that false wall of fake one-world peace at the end of this world, of how He is going to destroy it so it will be no more.

(Continued...)

 

[Davy]

(Continued...)


Ezek.13:16
16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

Remember, this is not just for the "foxes" among the Jews of Judaism. This is also for preachers in the Christian Church, particularly in the last days at the end of this world.

18 And say, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

This is where God begins pointing to a specific false doctrine of men that is popular today among the Church. That "women that sew pillows to all armholes" is not the best translation to English. God's is pointing to the idea that these false preachers put covers over His outstretched arms to the people. They hide... Him and what He actually says, and instead preach their own word. God even points to the idea of just who is it, that actually does the saving of one's soul? Not the preacher.

19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?

That idea is how those false preachers actually "pollute" God among His people for money (using preaching as a business), by their telling lies that slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live. In other words, their false preaching promises life to the criminal that won't repent, while persecuting good people that do repent.

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Just what false doctrine do you think God is pointing to in the above, those who hunt souls to make them FLY?

That is specifically the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory of man that first began to be preached in a Christian Church in the 1830's by John Nelson Darby.

God is against those who hunt the souls of His people to make them 'fly'. Those deceived even write songs about flying away!

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

Ever hear of the 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine of men? That especially is a false doctrine preached in those Pre-trib Rapture churches.

It wrongly teaches that those who have believed on Jesus Christ can never sin anymore, and thus there is no need to ever repent and ask forgiveness of sin anymore. That idea... is one that strengthens the hands of the wicked so that he sees no need to return from his wicked way.

Those in Christ are to walk by The Spirit, so we won't be doing anything against God or His Christ and The Holy Spirit. And when we do... find ourselves in a future sin, and we will still have future sin, because Apostle Paul taught that only those who have died are freed from sin, then we are to repent and ask Christ forgiveness, like Apostle John taught in 1 John 1.

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV

The above is a consolation from our Heavenly Father to those deceived by those false prophet foxes in the desert that push that 'fly away' doctrine. God says He will tear His people from their arms and deliver them. I certainly hope so! for many brethren have been deceived by that false "any moment", "fly away", doctrine of men.

 

[Douggg]

You could write rainbows and butterflies on your chart but that would not prove 45 days were for the armies preparing for war. The seventh seal is one year of vengeance.

The seventh seal is not the issue. The issue is that the kings of the earth must have time to gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His army. And also a reason to do so.

Your view that the great tribulation is over at the time of the sixth seal does not allow for any time for such a gathering, nor any reason for the kings of the earth to do so.

Also your view does not take into account the 7th vial of God's wrath poured out once those armies are gathered. The great tribulation is not done until the the 7th vial of God's wrath is poured out.

Revelation 16:
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[Taken]

“Pre-Trib Dispensationalism IS False”​

The Concept of A CONSEQUENCE Being True OR False IS Wholly Dependent upon on the Individuals Choices…

Dispensationalism…is a philosophy with many divisions.

Pre- is a concept of an Order / Way something IS realized, manifested.

Tribulation is an Unpleasant EFFECT which Individuals CAN, MAY, WILL Experience.

Not NEWS….Not SECRET…

A Living individual IN this World…
from the Beginning of Gods Creation AND Making of manKind… HAVE, WILL and WILL Continue to BE Subject to Tribulations,which Unpleasantly EFFECT THEM.

* Men…on EarthWho ARE Liars, Cheats, Thieves, Murderers, Arsonists, Invaders, etc. Perpetuate Tribulations.
* Fallen Angels…on EarthWho ARE liars, cheats, thieves, murderers, invaders, etc. Perpetuate Tribulations.
* God in Heaven…WHO IS ALL Powerful AND CONTROLS the WEATHER…
Routinely: Sends upon the Earth Weather that WHICH:
1) is a BLESSING and pleasant experience…
AND
2) is a WARNIG and unpleasant Tribulation experience…

Gods Word…Warns of men Against men.
Gods Word…Warns of Fallen Angels Against men.
Gods Word…Warns of men AGAINST the Lord God.
Gods Word…Warns…of God Against men WHO ARE Against God

Gods Word…REVEALS…an ANCIENT time in the history of manKIND WHEN the Whole Existance of manKIND (1, 2, 5 Million people or so in Existence) …ALL AGAINST God…EXCEPT for 8 individuals whose Belief and Standing WAS WITH GOD.

Today…Feb 2025…( estimation per fluctuating numbers)….Approx…
* 8 BILLION People.
* 40% (openly and secretly) Claim Belief in the Lord God.
* 20% (openly and secretly) Claim a “converted” Relationship WITH the Lord God, and Relationship of “IN” Christ.

Reviewing…the ancient History…
The 8 Believing and Standing WITH God…
WHERE were THEY…step by step…
From WHEN God Began SENDING HIS TRIBULATIONS DOWN FROM HEAVEN UP ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH?

? Davy…can you answer ?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

It's an unknown and irrelevant number. Choose any number that you want for the armies to prepare for war. I don't care. It's totally and completely irrelevant.

Daniel 12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So from 1290 days to 1335 days is 45 days.

Blessed is he that waiteth for 45 days for the armies to prepare for war.

Does that make any sense to you?
I keep telling you to put down the sledgehammer and quit beating things into places that do not agree with scripture.

How do you come up with this stuff? Why do you come up with this stuff? It is unscriptural.




Immediately after the tribulation of those days.........at the 6th seal.......there are signs of the sun, moon and stars. I don't know how to make you understand simple logic using scripture as the tool. But obviously there are signs in the sun, moon and stars that occur immediately after the tribulation and also when the 6th seal is opened. We don't need to do anything but believe what is written.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Well...........

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Sending His angels to gather the elect is certainly not a war. It's a harvest. It's a rapture.


I don't want to spend the time. There is no learning curve, I already know how to do it.

QUOTE
"Sending His angels to gather the elect is certainly not a war. It's a harvest. It's a rapture."

Huh???
There is nothing there of a rapture...zero...nothing!!!
Angels ( NOT JESUS) gather from heaven (NOT EARTH).
EVERY RAPTURE VERSE has Jesus gathering.

Dispensationalism is FALSE
(and heretical nonsense)
FIFY

What is a dispensation?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not really. Of course, most that think they are post trib think they are post wrath but they are not.

According to the Word of God, the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The tribulation is Satans time to hunt down those that do not take the mark.

The Day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God and a day of vengeance is God time to punish an evil unbelieving world.




The fact that you are not able to understand what is right in front of your face does not change the truth of the scripture.

Do you see any signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19. No.

Do you see any angels gathering the elect in Revelation 19. No.

Do you think that when Jesus shows up for the second harvest with His angels that He won't show up in power and glory?

There is no evidence that supports your position. All the evidence shows that Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days and before the wrath of God.


Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.



EXCELLENT. You got something correct.

So how it that you understand that Armageddon is over at the 7th trumpet and yet you want to place the vials coming after the 7th trumpet. Your very post proves your past arguments were in error.

Both the trumpet and vial happen in the same timeframe which is the 7th seal, Day of the Lord, Wrath of God.


Please produce any evidence that the tribulation period is 7 years long. There is a 70th week of Daniel. There is also a period of 7 years from the time a covenant with many is made until the things of Daniel 9 are complete. But there is absolutely no evidence that the tribulation is 7 years.

Produce one scripture if there is a 7 year tribulation. You can't.

The tribulation does not begin until the abomination of desolation is set up, and that's not at the beginning of the week.

4 horsemen slaughter and wrath is definately tribulation.
The White horseman kicks off the great 7 YEAR tribulation.
Then all he'll breaks lose on earth.
Rev6
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
Millions killed.
But to you no trib at all.

QUOTE
"Do you see any signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19. No.

Do you see any angels gathering the elect in Revelation 19. No."

THIS IS RIDICULOUS. NO WONDER YOU CAN NOT DISCERN THE BIBLE.

Do you see Jesus gathering anyone at your supposed rapture verse of mat 24??? NO.
Do you see any gathering of the earth ??? No.

You probably think stars actually fall from heaven.

 

[Taken]

QUOTE
"Sending His angels to gather the elect is certainly not a war. It's a harvest. It's a rapture."

Huh???
There is nothing there of a rapture...zero...nothing!!!
Angels ( NOT JESUS) gather from heaven (NOT EARTH).
EVERY RAPTURE VERSE has Jesus gathering.
What is a dispensation?

Every “gathering” is NOT a “Rapture”.

A Rapture is a “Lifting UP”… of Specific individuals Body’s, TO a Specific Place that is Not Earth.

Those participating IN the RAPTURE…
ARE NOT “gathered” then “Lifted up”.

Glory to God,
Taken