Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary.

But Christ's predestination seems to be of a different nature from ours: because we are predestinated to the sonship of adoption, whereas Christ was predestinated "Son of God in power," as is written (Romans 1:4). Therefore His predestination is not the exemplar of ours.

RJ says.mary became pregnant by the Spirit, Gods Son grew in Mary’s womb.Jesus was predestined to become the Messiah, that was already planned by God before the foundation of the world....

We become Born Again in our spirit, which couldn’t of happened without the death and resurrection Of Jesus...His Spirit is what saves us from eternal damnation, when it becomes Born Again, brought from death into life in Christ..chosen and predestined by God to become children of God.......my opinion.

 

[Lizbeth]

According to you it’s simple ,Sister, of course we need heart revelation from the Holy Spirit, which it appears that we both believe that we have received such revelation.

Thereby we are both opposites of what we believe we have received ....you...trinitarian..RJ...non trinitarian.

Yes Lizbeth, all according to you and your own understanding of said scripture, ...your opinion my friend.

Which you are trying to tell/ persuade me to believe....ain’t happening Sis, my heart/ spirit / mind...is only open to heart revelation from the Spirit....thanks for taking the time though to post your opinion / belief....

Here is mine.( opinion/ belief).according to the scripture that I have been lead to read and understand, the Holy Spirit has confirmed to me ,that Jesus is not fully God, that is my opinion/ belief ....plus I have posted much scripture saying that we have only “ one Father God”...the Holy Spirit has testified of the truth to my heart/ spirit..again that is “ my belief “ Lizbeth.....God is my Spirit Father.

Jesus is my Spirit Brother....

As a Born Again we grow in the mind of Christ, because he represents the Father, everything about Jesus we follow , he is 100% representation of his Father...he is not the Father, ..we are partakers Of the divine nature, we are not fully Jesus, we are spiritually Born Again, Lizbeth?

Again this can be interpreted either way that you sway or believe as a non trinitarian..or a trinitarian.

The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus

‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)

‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)


Now you have a little think on that ,Sister.

Edit to add.....Father God, I thank you that you sent your only Son to the cross, I thank you that he was a wonderful obedient/ fully surrendered his will over to everything that you asked of him, his Spirit was in direct contact with yours, His Spirit was in complete harmony with yours...

If you hadn’t sent your Son to be our sin bearer, then there would never have been a way for us to be reunited back to you in spirit....by the death and resurrection of your Son, that is the only way back to you Father God....our spirit has been reunited back to you, when it became Born Again....

Jesus is my saviour...as I’ve already explained why, you are my Father God who sent Jesus to be the sin bearer to all those who will be reunited back to you in spirit......my thoughts/ testimony/ opinions/ belief.

It's ALL OVER the scriptures sister, Who He is/was. People have been posting a lot of them, but for some reason you choose to ignore all of those scrips and stick with one cherry-picked verse about Him not knowing the day/hour. And Who Jesus is and was IS a heart revelation.....as long as we don't let our carnal mind talk ourselves out of it. How could faith in a mere man save anyone? (Especially when God says in His word that "cursed is the man who trusts in man"...my that's a big clue in itself.) And did we receive the Spirit of a man? Did the spirit of a man come to dwell in us? How come scripture shows that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit if He is/was a mere man and not God incarnate? I hope you will have a little think on those things, prayerfully.

 

[Ritajanice]

It's ALL OVER the scriptures sister, Who He is/was. People have been posting a lot of them, but for some reason you choose to ignore all of those scrips and stick with one cherry-picked verse about Him not knowing the day/hour.

I have posted a load of verses showing you that Jesus is not fully God...so please don’t play your cherry picking card...as one can say that you do exactly the same...talk about hypocrisy, Lizbeth.

And Who Jesus is and was IS a heart revelation

Excuse me...this isn’t biblical? .....you’re not making any sense above...?.......we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....
Spirit gives birth to spirit...do you understand what that means?..I have asked you this question a few times, to which you never answered.

.....as long as we don't let our carnal mind talk ourselves out of it.

This makes no sense @Lizbeth ...as Gods word says this.?

Romans 8

King James Version

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How could faith in a mere man save anyone? (Especially when God says in His word that "cursed is the man who trusts in man"...my that's a big clue in itself.) And did we receive the Spirit of a man? Did the spirit of a man come to dwell in us? How come scripture shows that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit if He is/was a mere man and not God incarnate? I hope you will have a little think on those things,

I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about here...do you actually listen to what is being said or asked...you seem to do all the talking and evade all questions I’ve asked you so far?

prayerfully.

No it’s not and I rebuke your post saying that it is..Jesus is not God and never will be.

Are you done yet, pushing your belief/ opinions onto me?

What are you trying to gain?

 

[Ritajanice]

) And did we receive the Spirit of a man? Did the spirit of a man come to dwell in us

That’s not biblical?

Dwell in us?

Our spirit has been birthed..do you understand what that means?

Spirit gives birth to spirit...which means what?

You my friend most definitely understand scripture way differently to me.

How would I know that my spirit is Born Again...having never read a Bible...before the supernatural divine heart revelation?

I’ve just given you the answer....divine heart revelation?

 

[Lizbeth]

I have posted a load of verses showing you that Jesus is not fully God...so please don’t play your cherry picking card...as one can say that you do exactly the same...talk about hypocrisy, Lizbeth.

Excuse me...this isn’t biblical? .....you’re not making any sense above...?.......we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....
Spirit gives birth to spirit...do you understand what that means?..I have asked you this question a few times, to which you never answered.

This makes no sense @Lizbeth ...as Gods word says this.?



I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about here...do you actually listen to what is being said or asked...you seem to do all the talking and evade all questions I’ve asked you so far?

No it’s not and I rebuke your post saying that it is..Jesus is not God and never will be.

Are you done yet, pushing your belief/ opinions onto me?

What are you trying to gain?

Yes I'm done. I could post so many more scripts that reveal and attest to Who Jesus is but you would just continue to repudiate them and say they don't speak to you. And you would be right, because only those with ears to hear can hear.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes I'm done. I could post so many more scripts that reveal and attest to Who Jesus is but you would just continue to repudiate them and say they don't speak to you. And you would be right, because only those with ears

Yes, according to you Lizbeth...remember ..we have “ spiritual “ ears and eyes....not worldly ones any longer.

Romans 8:9-11​

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King James Version​

​

​

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

to hear can hear.

Once again Lizbeth all my spirit questions evaded..as usual..bye, bye..

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, according to you Lizbeth...remember ..we have “ spiritual “ ears and eyes....not worldly ones any longer.

Once again Lizbeth all my spirit questions evaded..as usual..bye, bye..

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Claims someone who often admits that scriptures aren't speaking to her and mean nothing to her....?

 

[Ritajanice]

Claims someone who often admits that scriptures aren't speaking to her

Correct a lot of scripture does not speak to my heart/ spirit.

Do you understand all scripture @Lizbeth ....?

Because you never answer The Spirit questions I have asked of you?

Nothing wrong in not understanding all of scripture, as evidently you don’t?..because I’m still waiting for the scripture I posted to be answered.

and mean nothing to her....?

A lot of scripture I don’t understand...I didn’t say they mean nothing...they mean nothing to me in my understanding / heart/ spirit, they are still Gods word...., so please don’t start putting words into my mouth, that I haven’t said, and stop twisting what I say to suit your own understanding.

Matthew 13:9-16​

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King James Version​

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9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[Lizbeth]

Correct a lot of scripture does not speak to my heart/ spirit.

Do you understand all scripture @Lizbeth ....?

Because you never answer The Spirit questions I have asked of you?

Nothing wrong in not understanding all of scripture, as evidently you don’t?..because I’m still waiting for the scripture I posted to be answered.

A lot of scripture I don’t understand...I didn’t say they mean nothing...they mean nothing to me in my understanding / heart/ spirit, they are still Gods word...., so please don’t start putting words into my mouth, that I haven’t said, and stop twisting what I say to suit your own understanding.

Matthew 13:9-16​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

I wasn't putting words into your mouth...it is what you have said more than once when I have brought scriptures to bear. The problem is not as much that you don't understand them, it's that you reject and repudiate them out of hand because you don't understand them. Instead of getting understanding by allowing it to speak to you and instruct.

And I guess I don't understand why someone who talks about the Holy Spirit so much, can't understand the scriptures that I bring because they are not complicated. I myself don't "do" complicated very well, most especially as I've gotten older, and I need the Lord to show me things simply and He does, and I wonder why someone would find it hard to simply understand simple things that scripture simply says. It's just a matter of accepting/believing/receiving, not trying to figure things all out with the carnal mind. The problem seems to be that you block and repudiate the word/scriptures for some reason instead of receiving them.

 

[Ritajanice]

I wasn't putting words into your mouth...it is what you have said more than once when I have brought scriptures to bear. The problem is not as much that you don't understand them, it's that you reject and repudiate them out of hand because you don't understand them. Instead of getting understanding by allowing it to speak to you and instruct.

What do you think you’ve been doing with all the scripture I posted to you?...what a hypocrite that you are.
And what about all the scripture that I have posted to you...?
You dismiss it all and never want to address it...it’s all there for everyone to see...why don’t you admit that you don’t understand all scripture that I post?

At least I can admit that the Spirit hasn’t brought me to understand all scripture... @Lizbeth ...why on earth would I have to understand scripture the way you understand it?
Why would I have to study the same way as you?

What have you learnt from the Spirit @Lizbeth ?
Plus whose to say @Lizbeth that your interpretation of scripture is true?
Ask the Holy Spirit to bring it to your understanding?

Who brings scripture to our understanding?...

All in God’s timing, my word....do you not even understand that?

Who are you Glorifying when you post @Lizbeth ....it sounds to me like you believe all knowledge comes from you, you tell a story of Jesus @Lizbeth .....you need heart knowledge.....I see more head knowledge coming out of your mouth in honesty.

 

[Hepzibah]

Here is Gary Hamrick on the Trinity listen from 13:55 to 23:17. I am not endorsing him...heck I am not a Protestant but he brings up a point not covered yet on the Greek for 'one' :

God’s View of Spiritual Gifts – Cornerstone Chapel

 

[Lizbeth]

What do you think you’ve been doing with all the scripture I posted to you?...what a hypocrite that you are.
And what about all the scripture that I have posted to you...?
You dismiss it all and never want to address it...it’s all there for everyone to see...why don’t you admit that you don’t understand all scripture that I post?

At least I can admit that the Spirit hasn’t brought me to understand all scripture... @Lizbeth ...why on earth would I have to understand scripture the way you understand it?
Why would I have to study the same way as you?

What have you learnt from the Spirit @Lizbeth ?
Plus whose to say @Lizbeth that your interpretation of scripture is true?
Ask the Holy Spirit to bring it to your understanding?

Who brings scripture to our understanding?...

All in God’s timing, my word....do you not even understand that?

I added a paragraph to my post that you might not have seen yet. I just don't understand that someone who talks so much and constantly about the Holy Spirit and His revelation is still so easily blown about by every other wind, 30 plus years later. And 30 years on we should know by now in Whom we have believed. Not just a prophet.

 

[Ritajanice]

I added a paragraph to my post that you might not have seen yet. I just don't understand that someone who talks so much and constantly about the Holy Spirit and His revelation is still so easily blown about by every other wind, 30 plus years later. And 30 years on we should know by now in Whom we have believed. Not just a prophet.

Blown about by the wind...you have a habit of repeating that Lizbeth.

The thing is though Lizbeth....from what I see from your posts, you tell a story...I can’t see any spiritual knowledge whatsoever...remember we are Born Of the Spirit...therefore we will talk Spirit all day every day.

My question is...why does it upset you that I speak constantly about the Holy Spirit?...

The Spirit is my mouth piece...it seems to me that you love the Bible and treat it as an idol....you need to seek God out with your heart...do you think you have to read a Bible to do that?

@Lizbeth what has the Spirit taught you....tell us what you have actually gained from reading the Bible?

Have you actually gained any spiritual knowledge, and what is Spiritual knowledge @Lizbeth ?

Blowing about , do you mean by doctrine @Lizbeth ?

If you do, doctrine doesn’t lead me, the Spirit does...what’s your answer to that then?

Are you led by doctrine @Lizbeth ?

 

[Ritajanice]

so much and constantly about the Holy Spirit and His revelation

I have to, I can’t stop talking about the Holy Spirit/ Jesus / God..I have the Spirit indwelling my spirit....do you understand that?.as I’m Born Again..my spirit has been birthed...my question is, why aren’t you understanding this?

I represent Jesus/ the power that indwells my spirit, the Living Holy Spirit, My spirit is Alive in Christ ,is yours?who do you represent..the Bible because that’s all you ever talk about....you never talk about the power of God who is Alive in Spirit...do you actually know that God is a Living supernatural divine Spirit...or do you think he’s the Bible @Lizbeth ?

 

[Lizbeth]

I have to, I can’t stop talking about the Holy Spirit/ Jesus / God..I have the Spirit indwelling my spirit....do you understand that?.as I’m Born Again..my spirit has been birthed...my question is, why aren’t you understanding this?

I represent Jesus/ the power that indwells my spirit, the Living Holy Spirit, My spirit is Alive in Christ ,is yours?who do you represent..the Bible because that’s all you ever talk about....you never talk about the power of God ....

We are born again as little babes, but it's vital that we grow from there, forgetting what lies behind and reaching for what lies ahead. It's the "children" who are blown about by every wind of doctrine, and some of those doctrines lead to perdition.

 

[Ritajanice]

We are born again as little babes, but it's vital that we grow from there

Grow into what Lizbeth...we are being conformed, into Jesus image...what has doctrine got to do with growing ?

How can reading doctrine make you grow?...we are spirit children ...not doctrine children?
What are we growing in and who should we be representing?

Who are we advocates for?


We grow in the Spirit ...whose at work in our spirit all day every day..doing what Lizbeth?

, forgetting what lies behind and reaching for what lies ahead. It's the "children" who are blown about by every wind of doctrine, and some of those doctrines lead to perdition.

The thing is though, you haven’t grown one bit in spiritual knowledge imo....I’ve asked you questions and yet again you have dismissed them.

What do you know about Jesus in your spirit?

What have you learnt from the Holy Spirit?....

Why must we be Born Again @Lizbeth ?...

I’m still waiting for you to explain to me what you have learnt from the word of God?

Do you actually know what your calling is?

I’m sure you must know my calling, it’s all over the forum...let me hear yours...where are you glorifying the Father on this forum?

What has the Spirit taught you about ,what it means to be Born Again?

 

[Wrangler]

The best evidence that Jesus is God is that which we all agree on, that He is the Son of God.

There there is no evidence whatsoever because converse statements are not true. Yes, all squares are rectangles but all rectangles are NOT squares.

"Son of Man" and "Son of God" are titles, not statements of biology. Your claim is analogous to Floyd Mayweather Jr is the best ever because he says so. Worse, because you say so.

 

[Wrangler]

It's ALL OVER the scriptures

This is my all time favorite trinitarian apology. The audacity to claim that all the Scriptures point to the trinity when, in fact, not one verse teaches it.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes I know what my calling is. I havent' seen you mention your calling at all, but I don't get around a whole lot. Think I'll just leave it here for now @Ritajanice and let the thread get back on track.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is my all time favorite trinitarian apology. The audacity to claim that all the Scriptures point to the trinity when, in fact, not one verse teaches it.

I'm not talking about "trinity", I'm just talking about the deity of Christ.