Book of Life / Predestination/Elect - My personal gleanings

[Jack]

What’s the right way to you?

Give us some Bible verses with "Yahavah" Matt.

 

[GodsGrace]

What’s the right way to you?

Well, thanks for asking!
The right way is to go back to the beginning and find out what the early church taught.

IOW,,,, after the Reformation (which was necessary due to all the changes made) it becomes clear that
there are many teachings out there.

HOW to determine which are right and which aren't.
Would you agree that the Apostles knew what Jesus taught?
Would you agree that the Apostles taught others what Jesus taught them in over 3 years of His ministry with them?

IF you agree, then I'd say we have to go back to those persons and find out what THEY believed to be the truth.

Of course this would mean that we'd have to begin to agree with each other about matters that are discussed all day long...
but wouldn't it be nice to get those settled and maybe do bible study instead?

 

[MatthewG]

Well, thanks for asking!
The right way is to go back to the beginning and find out what the early church taught.

IOW,,,, after the Reformation (which was necessary due to all the changes made) it becomes clear that
there are many teachings out there.

HOW to determine which are right and which aren't.
Would you agree that the Apostles knew what Jesus taught?
Would you agree that the Apostles taught others what Jesus taught them in over 3 years of His ministry with them?

IF you agree, then I'd say we have to go back to those persons and find out what THEY believed to be the truth.

Of course this would mean that we'd have to begin to agree with each other about matters that are discussed all day long...
but wouldn't it be nice to get those settled and maybe do bible study instead?

Wouldn’t the early church have been teaching what the apostles taught them to teach? That would be showcased in the Bible, itself. One would think.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wouldn’t the early church have been teaching what the apostles taught them to teach? That would be showcased in the Bible, itself. One would think.

Matthew....
Let me ask you this:
John is sitting on the Island of Patmos.
He's writing something...it's........REVELATION.

Now John dies.

Does the church continue or does it stop?
Did Acts come BEFORE John died or AFTER John died?

 

[MatthewG]

Spiritually it continues, @GodsGrace.

The Kingdom which Yeshua has instated won’t ever go away.

The first church bride who went through horrible tragic times still remains something which was underwent.

 

[GodsGrace]

Spiritually it continues, @GodsGrace.

The Kingdom which Yeshua has instated won’t ever go away.

The first church bride who went through horrible tragic times still remains something which was underwent.

OK....
so, yes, spiritually the church continues.

How about physically?
Is there a building near you that's called a church?
Do you attend a church?
Is it possible for the bride to exist without churches?

What do you think this means:

Romans 10:13-15
13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

Read Matthew 28:19 ...... Why do you think Jesus sent out the Apostles?

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t believe a perfect so called church of Christ exist today, materially. It was always a spiritual faith which Yeshua brought forth. Removing the material aspect of it entirely.

@GodsGrace.

Just cause people call Jesus, Lord doesn’t mean anything? Anyone can say words. It has to be a heartfelt confession which comes from a person of faith.

There was people in that day, which wouldn’t confess Christ cause they would lose their status in “church”, but I digress.

It’s not like you’re gonna believe any of this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t believe a perfect so called church of Christ exist today, materially. It was always a spiritual faith which Yeshua brought forth. Removing the material aspect of it entirely.

@GodsGrace.

Just cause people call Jesus, Lord doesn’t mean anything? Anyone can say words. It has to be a heartfelt confession which comes from a person of faith.

There was people in that day, which wouldn’t confess Christ cause they would lose their status in “church”, but I digress.

It’s not like you’re gonna believe any of this.

You're not saying what the bible says.
Why don't you explain the two verses I posed?
Because they would show that there's something you don't want to understand.

I didn't say there's a perfect church.
What I said is that churches exist and they MUST exist because otherwise Christianity would die out.

HOW would persons become saved if there were no churches?

The NT teaches that we are to be baptized.
HOW does one get baptized without a church? (unless he's dying of course).

 

[MatthewG]

Without Jesus, Christianity would have certainly died out, already. In my opinion.

My original post was simply sharing how I seen the book of life, itself a book of the genealogies.

You’re more than welcome to disagree. I believe that this book was open at the ending of the age of Moses. Establishing the age of fulfillment, where today people pick and choose to eat from the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There was a holy, spotless, blameless church that did exist at one point and time and it was taken. It was the bride of Christ who continue to watch and wait and because of their faith they seen him come and were rescued.

@GodsGrace.

 

[MatthewG]

Nothing?

 

[Hey You!]

Are Y'all having Fun?

 

[MatthewG]

 

[Hey You!]

Lol, I wasn't even thinking that when I picked that Username. Now I can't stop thinking it...

Free Will...

 

[Ritajanice]

Churches may die out , but the Born Again can never in a million years die out..their spirit has been birthed/ reborn...we would still fellowship outside of church..that’s for sure.

Once Born Again always Born Again..

 

[MatthewG]

Lots of cool songs out there

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To me, no matter what one may believe concerning these doctrines themselves there is a bit of hardness of heart that comes with those whom assume and believe and think they are elect. It’s almost like Pharisees, who believed they were better than the lowly man, in the parable spoken of by Jesus. And then, when proclaiming such there is the though of people in the crowds that say; “Well I guess I don’t matter to God; he is predestined every one he has I guess that is it”;

Good point in my opinion. I’ve never considered what it produces being hardness of heart. But I quoted the above to point out that saying it all took place in 70 AD can also cause a hardness of heart too. I’ve mentioned to you (in case you don’t remember) that my husband and you share a similar perspective. Sometimes I feel as if his heart is hardened to where he is right and that’s it. End of the story. it shuts me out. Or maybe I shut out being exactly what I blame others of, being so sure I’m right that my heart has become hardened in my certainty. Either way hardened of heart is a real issue just as much today as in 70AD.

You mentioned “Well I guess I don’t matter to God; he is predestined every one he has I guess that is it”;….that can go both ways where “predestined” excludes, so does it is finished in 70 AD and don’t be confused “it’s not talking to you”. Did you get that? To me there is a wall put up also in one’s own belief it was only for and to that time period of 70AD. It also excludes today. both have this in common: we are those predestined and all others are dung. Or it happened in 70 AD and it’s not to us.

I like how you look at what is produced pointing out the (but of) hardness of heart. I’ve tried to share when God promised He would remove the heart of stone and put a new spirit in them, and give them a heart of flesh. <if that was only then or to Israel: which not all are but Israel is Spiritual by the circumcision of the heart (made without hands) in Christ.

If a heart of stone was only for then and to them …then why or how do we see a (bit) of hardened hearts today? See, to me it’s still as critical today to turn to God and have the foreskin of your heart removed: Colossians 2:6-15 As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk you in him: [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins (removal of a heart of stone) of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who has raised him from the dead. 13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

^to me that says ALL have a heart of stone
Which God spoke of as whom was and is to come that removes the stone, rolling away that which was “too heavy for men to move” by and through the operation of God. If this was only to Israel(after the flesh) who has a hardened heart issue, then how is it evident the truth in the danger of a heart which is hardened, and remains so? You may ask what is the point of quoting that passage. Because even on this board for years, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that was to Israel (Jerusalem) only concerning the stony heart, and the parables about it (the stony heart taken out of the way) have nothing to do with us, or the need to have it( the heart of stone)removed of God. As He has torn down the partition where two become One: there is no more that “division” between the old (removed) and the New (circumcision given where if any be in Christ) He is “a New Creature” —but you have been made One Body in Christ. Neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, neither bond nor Free, neither circumcision nor uncircumcised: That there be no more partitions (schism) within His body.

Or at least that is where I stand at the moment. But see, it hurts because if I share this with “you make the text about you. It’s not about you but about 70 AD” to me that excludes the Love of God who tells me a heart of Stone needs to be dealt with just as much today as yesterday. How it is not a Jewish problem but a world problem. How it’s a sin problem. A denial problem. A lack of care problem. An exclusion problem. A high-minded problem. An arrogant and boastful problem. A “all have fallen short” of His Glory problem. Where it can’t be ignored if it was only in 70 AD then why do hearts grow hardened? Even in as you pointed out “I am one of those predestined, but you are bot”?

 

[Hey You!]

Wouldn’t the early church have been teaching what the apostles taught them to teach? That would be showcased in the Bible, itself. One would think.

Acts 15 shows us that the early Church was teaching Heresey. Even before the Bible was finalized, the Church started getting things wrong...

 

[MatthewG]

Good point in my opinion. I’ve never considered what it produces being hardness of heart. But I quoted the above to point out that saying it all took place in 70 AD can also cause a hardness of heart too. I’ve mentioned to you (in case you don’t remember) that my husband and you share a similar perspective. Sometimes I feel as if his heart is hardened to where he is right and that’s it. End of the story. it shuts me out. Or maybe I shut out being exactly what I blame others of, being so sure I’m right that my heart has become hardened in my certainty. Either way hardened of heart is a real issue just as much today as in 70AD.

You mentioned “Well I guess I don’t matter to God; he is predestined every one he has I guess that is it”;….that can go both ways where “predestined” excludes, so does it is finished in 70 AD and don’t be confused “it’s not talking to you”. Did you get that? To me there is a wall put up also in one’s own belief it was only for and to that time period of 70AD. It also excludes today. both have this in common: we are those predestined and all others are dung. Or it happened in 70 AD and it’s not to us.

I like how you look at what is produced pointing out the (but of) hardness of heart. I’ve tried to share when God promised He would remove the heart of stone and put a new spirit in them, and give them a heart of flesh. <if that was only then or to Israel: which not all are but Israel is Spiritual by the circumcision of the heart (made without hands) in Christ.

If a heart of stone was only for then and to them …then why or how do we see a (bit) of hardened hearts today? See, to me it’s still as critical today to turn to God and have the foreskin of your heart removed: Colossians 2:6-15 As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk you in him: [7] Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins (removal of a heart of stone) of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who has raised him from the dead. 13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

^to me that says ALL have a heart of stone
Which God spoke of as whom was and is to come that removes the stone, rolling away that which was “too heavy for men to move” by and through the operation of God. If this was only to Israel(after the flesh) who has a hardened heart issue, then how is it evident the truth in the danger of a heart which is hardened, and remains so? You may ask what is the point of quoting that passage. Because even on this board for years, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that was to Israel (Jerusalem) only concerning the stony heart, and the parables about it (the stony heart taken out of the way) have nothing to do with us, or the need to have it( the heart of stone)removed of God. As He has torn down the partition where two become One: there is no more that “division” between the old (removed) and the New (circumcision given where if any be in Christ) He is “a New Creature” —but you have been made One Body in Christ. Neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, neither bond nor Free, neither circumcision nor uncircumcised: That there be no more partitions (schism) within His body.

Or at least that is where I stand at the moment. But see, it hurts because if I share this with “you make the text about you. It’s not about you but about 70 AD” to me that excludes the Love of God who tells me a heart of Stone needs to be dealt with just as much today as yesterday. How it is not a Jewish problem but a world problem. How it’s a sin problem. A denial problem. A lack of care problem. An exclusion problem. A high-minded problem. An arrogant and boastful problem. A “all have fallen short” of His Glory problem. Where it can’t be ignored if it was only in 70 AD then why do hearts grow hardened? Even in as you pointed out “I am one of those predestined, but you are bot”?

I’m not your husband, so I don’t know.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I’m not your husband, so I don’t know.

Never meant to imply you are my husband. I was only sharing with you my experience. My way of clarifying to you I’m not taking lightly your OP, but have personal experience and relaying how that personal experience makes me feel excluded also. I told my husband I responded to your thread and what the topic is about. He is persistent as well. Maybe he is correct. All I can share is, where you said “To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists.”

(Imo) excludes, no different from only those chosen or predestinated (excludes) names written in the Lambs book of Life. If it only relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists…then why Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t know if my name is written in heaven.

I’m just thankful for Yeshua who gives us newness of life and gets us to Yahavah.

Seems like Paul knew some peoples who name was though.