Jesus is Yahweh.

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marks

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So, who is this Jesus BEFORE He descended FROM heaven?

Serious question.

He can't be human, since Jesus preexisted before the world existed (John 17:5 | Col 1:16)
Philippians gives us some clues . . .

Philippians 2:7-8 KJV
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He took on the form of a servant. Before that, was He Master?
He humbled Himself. Before that, was He prideful? Or transcendant?
He became obedient. Before that, was He disobedient? Or Sovereign?

Much love!
 

Ritajanice

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Philippians gives us some clues . . .

Philippians 2:7-8 KJV
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He took on the form of a servant. Before that, was He Master?
He humbled Himself. Before that, was He prideful? Or transcendant?
He became obedient. Before that, was He disobedient? Or Sovereign?

Much love!
Wow!!!...those are really eye / heart opening scripture verses there...that I will study much more in depth...I’m still exploring the trinity...
 
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marks

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I don't like to be like you, who in order to keep what you believe, has to argue against the mountain of evidence that has been provided to you over several threads and hundreds of posts. I understand your position but in the end you are not convincing.
When the oft repeated answer is, OH, that's figurative! it becomes a plain denial of truth.

Much love!
 

WalterandDebbie

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Is Jesus God? Yes.
There are numerous evidences for the absolute deity of Jesus Christ in the Bible. The following is a summary of the more important evidences.

Jesus Has the Names of God
Jesus Christ possesses divine names—names that can only be used of God. For example:

Jesus is Yahweh. Yahweh is a very common Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament, occurring over 5,300 times. It is translated Lord (all capitals) in many English translations of the Bible.

We first learn of this name in Exodus 3, where Moses asked God by what name He should be called. God replied to him, “I AM WHO I AM. . . .Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you’ ” (verse 14). Yahweh is basically a shortened form of “I AM WHO I AM” (verse 15). The name conveys the idea of eternal self-existence. Yahweh never came into being at a point in time for He has always existed.

Jesus implicitly ascribed this divine name to himself during a confrontation He had with a group of hostile Jews. He said, “I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). Jesus deliberately contrasted the created origin of Abraham—whom the Jews venerated—with His own eternal, uncreated nature as God.

Jesus is Kurios. The New Testament Greek equivalent of the Old Testament Hebrew name Yahweh is Kurios. Used of God, Kurios carries the idea of a sovereign being who exercises absolute authority. The word is translated Lord in English translations of the Bible.

The affirmation that “Jesus is Lord” (Kurios) in the New Testament constitutes a clear affirmation that Jesus is Yahweh.
To an early Christian accustomed to reading the Old Testament, the word Lord, when used of Jesus, would point to His identification with the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh). Hence, the affirmation that “Jesus is Lord” (Kurios) in the New Testament constitutes a clear affirmation that Jesus is Yahweh, as is the case in passages like Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, and Philippians 2:5–11.

Jesus is Elohim. Elohim is a Hebrew name that is used of God 2,570 times in the Old Testament. The name literally means “strong one,” and its plural ending (im in Hebrew) indicates fullness of power. Elohim is portrayed in the Old Testament as the powerful and sovereign governor of the universe, ruling over the affairs of humankind.

Jesus is recognized as both Yahweh and Elohim in the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3: “Prepare the way of the Lord [Yahweh]; make straight in the desert a highway for our God [Elohim].” This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing for the coming of Christ (as confirmed in John 1:23) and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ’s deity in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 9:6, we likewise read a prophecy of Christ with a singular variant (El) of Elohim: “And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [El], Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

Jesus is Theos. The New Testament Greek word for God, Theos, is the corresponding parallel to the Old Testament Hebrew term Elohim. A well-known example of Christ being addressed as God (Theos) is found in the story of “doubting Thomas” in John 20. In this passage, Thomas witnesses the resurrected Christ and worshipfully responds: “My Lord and my God [Theos]” (John 20:28).

Jesus is called Theos throughout the rest of the New Testament. For example, when a jailer asked Paul and Silas how to be saved, they responded: “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:31). After the jailer believed and became saved, he “rejoiced, having believed in God [Theos] with all his household” (verse 34). Believing in Christ and believing in God are seen as identical acts.

Jesus Possesses the Attributes of God
Jesus possesses attributes that belong only to God.

Jesus is eternal. John 1:1 affirms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the timespace universe came into being, Christ already existed (Hebrews 1:8–11).

Jesus is self-existent. As the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2), Christ himself must be uncreated. Colossians 1:17 tells us that Christ is “before all things, and in Him all things consist.”

Jesus is everywhere-present. Christ promised His disciples, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Since people all over the world gather in Christ’s name, the only way He could be present with them all is if He is truly omnipresent (see Matthew 28:20; Ephesians 1:23, 4:10; Colossians 3:11).

Jesus is all-knowing. Jesus knew where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matthew 17:27). He knew the future (John 11:11, 18:4), specific details that would be encountered (Matthew 21:2–4), and knew from a distance that Lazarus had died (John 11:14). He also knows the Father as the Father knows Him (Matthew 11:27; John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).

Jesus is all-powerful. Christ created the entire universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2) and sustains the universe by His own power (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3). During His earthly ministry, He exercised power over nature (Luke 8:25), physical diseases (Mark 1:29–31), demonic spirits (Mark 1:32–34), and even death (John 11:1–44).

Jesus is sovereign. Christ presently sits at the right hand of God the Father, “angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him” (1 Peter 3:22). When Christ comes again in glory, He will be adorned with a majestic robe, and on the thigh section of the robe will be the words, “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus is sinless. Jesus challenged Jewish leaders: “Which of you convicts Me of sin?” (John 8:46). The apostle Paul referred to Jesus as “Him who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is one who “loved righteousness and hated lawlessness” (Hebrews 1:9), was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), and was “holy, harmless, [and] undefiled” (Hebrews 7:26).

Jesus Possesses the Authority of God
Jesus always spoke in His own divine authority. He never said, “Thus saith the Lord” as did the prophets; He always said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you. . . .” He never retracted anything He said, never guessed or spoke with uncertainty, never made revisions, never contradicted himself, and never apologized for what He said. He even asserted, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Mark 13:31), hence elevating His words directly to the realm of heaven.

Jesus Performs the Works of God
Jesus’ deity is also proved by His miracles. His miracles are often called “signs” in the New Testament. Signs always signify something—in this case, that Jesus is the divine Messiah.

Some of Jesus’ more notable miracles include turning water into wine (John 2:7–8); walking on the sea (Matthew 14:25; Mark 6:48; John 6:19); calming a stormy sea (Matthew 8:26; Mark 4:39; Luke 8:24); feeding 5,000 men and their families (Matthew 14:19; Mark 6:41; Luke 9:16; John 6:11); raising Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43–44); and causing the disciples to catch a great number of fish (Luke 5:5–6).

Jesus Is Worshiped as God
Jesus was worshiped on many occasions in the New Testament. He accepted worship from Thomas (John 20:28), the angels (Hebrews 1:6), some wise men (Matthew 2:11), a leper (Matthew 8:2), a ruler (Matthew 9:18), a blind man (John 9:38), an anonymous woman (Matthew 15:25), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 28:9), and the disciples (Matthew 28:17).

Scripture is emphatic that only God can be worshiped (Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13; Matthew 4:10). In view of this, the fact that both humans and angels worshiped Jesus on numerous occasions shows He is God.

Old Testament Parallels Prove Jesus Is God
A comparison of the Old and New Testaments provides powerful testimony to Jesus’s identity as God. For example, a study of the Old Testament indicates that it is only God who saves. In Isaiah 43:11, God asserts: “I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no savior.” This verse indicates that (1) a claim to be Savior is, in itself, a claim to deity; and (2) there is only one Savior—the Lord God. It is thus highly revealing of Christ’s divine nature that the New Testament refers to Jesus as “our great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13).

Likewise, God asserted in Isaiah 44:24: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone, who spreads abroad the earth by Myself” (emphasis added). The fact that God alone “makes all things” (Isaiah 44:24)—and the accompanying fact that Christ is claimed to be the Creator of “all things” (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2)—proves that Christ is truly God.

Preincarnate Appearances of Christ
Many theologians believe that appearances of the “angel of the Lord” (or, more literally, “angel of Yahweh”) in Old Testament times were preincarnate appearances of Jesus Christ. (The word preincarnate means “before becoming a human being.”) There are a number of evidences for this view:


J.
Hello Brother Johann, How are you all? We are well. Thank you. Have you read it? The Hebrew Yehovah vs. the Roman Yahweh | Time of Reckoning Ministry

Love, Walter
 
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ProDeo

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So again, why are you OK believing what is contrary to Scripture;
First, you shall not put words in my mouth.

Secondly, your words imply that I am a hypocrite deliberately posting things I don't believe.

You should be more careful before you hit the submit button.
 
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ProDeo

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Philippians gives us some clues . . .

Philippians 2:7-8 KJV
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He took on the form of a servant. Before that, was He Master?
He humbled Himself. Before that, was He prideful? Or transcendant?
He became obedient. Before that, was He disobedient? Or Sovereign?

Much love!
Brilliant.
 
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Johann

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Philippians gives us some clues . . .

Philippians 2:7-8 KJV
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He took on the form of a servant. Before that, was He Master?
He humbled Himself. Before that, was He prideful? Or transcendant?
He became obedient. Before that, was He disobedient? Or Sovereign?

Much love!
Before that He was face to face with YHVH.

J.
 
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Wrangler

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First, you shall not put words in my mouth.

Secondly, your words imply that I am a hypocrite deliberately posting things I don't believe.
Wrong on both counts. You said you believe Jesus is YHWH, the title of this thread (and the trinity, in general). I asked how you feel about believing in things that contradict Scripture, i.e., why are you OK with it?
 

ProDeo

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Wrong on both counts. You said you believe Jesus is YHWH, the title of this thread (and the trinity, in general). I asked how you feel about believing in things that contradict Scripture, i.e., why are you OK with it?
The same silly question again ?

Let's reverse your silly question, maybe you will understand :

You believe Jesus is not YHWH, also that Jesus is not God the Son. I ask how you feel about believing in things that contradict Scripture, i.e., why are you OK with it?
 
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APAK

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How?

That I only made a typo?

Sure.



Agreed.

Question remains what is the identity of Jesus when He descended FROM heaven.

. We know Jesus preexisted before the world existed (John 17:5 | Col 1:16)
. The Father and Jesus glorified each other before the world existed (John 17:5)

So, who is this Jesus BEFORE He descended FROM heaven?

Serious question.

He can't be human, since Jesus preexisted before the world existed (John 17:5 | Col 1:16)



Correct.



I think it is the other way around.

It amazes me with all the evidence offered by many people here it doesn't ring a bell.

When I heard for the first time that Jesus was God the Son I rejected that immediately for reasons you quoted multiple times. But after studying the Word the evidence that Jesus is God the Son (and thus not God the Father) is overwhelming.
PD 'descending from heaven' is an idiom, it is meant to be understood figuratively, and used with Jesus, because his Father (his spirit) actually 'descended' from heaven to conceive him for his FIRST existence, and never any impossible pre-existent Son, who was yet to be born as the first son born of the Father in this fashion.

Great Day to you....
 

ProDeo

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PD 'descending from heaven' is an idiom, it is meant to be understood figuratively, and used with Jesus, because his Father (his spirit) actually 'descended' from heaven to conceive him for his FIRST existence, and never any impossible pre-existent Son, who was yet to be born as the first son born of the Father in this fashion.

Great Day to you....
John 8:23 - He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

Also meant to be understood figuratively ?

Johh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Also meant to be understood figuratively ?
 
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Wrangler

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The same silly question again ?

Let's reverse your silly question, maybe you will understand :

You believe Jesus is not YHWH, also that Jesus is not God the Son. I ask how you feel about believing in things that contradict Scripture, i.e., why are you OK with it?
It's a very serious question that I asked you.

Your question is a joke because the implied claims are false, i.e., no verse says Jesus is YHWH, no verse says God the Son.
 

APAK

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John 8:23 - He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

Also meant to be understood figuratively ?

Johh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Also meant to be understood figuratively ?
Yes PD, you did not answer my post as usual and you present me with more idioms to entertain both of us, and in hope you can find a 'hole' or flaw in my next post, to pin on me. And then you will learn nothing again I suspect, and bring up the same words I reacted to in a week or so.....

Bye..
 
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ProDeo

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It's a very serious question that I asked you.

Your question is a joke because the implied claims are false, i.e., no verse says Jesus is YHWH, no verse says God the Son.
Your logic is not great, so more simple then -

Your understanding of Scripture regarding the deity of Christ is different than mine.

That's all there is and your initial suggestive question makes no sense.

I give up and you may have the last word.
 
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