At what point does a believer join the Body of Christ?

[St. SteVen]

In a previous topic I asked the question: Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized?

Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized?

On another topic we were discussing baptisms. I think the actual subject of the topic was the evidence for the baptism with the Holy Spirit. But somehow we veered into questions about water baptism and salvation. At least one individual had strong feelings about the necessity of water baptism...

www.christianityboard.com

Lack of response and seeming confusion caused by my topic question led me to attempt to clarify on this topic.
It seemed that readers assumed being part of the Body of Christ was synonymous with salvation.
As if I was asking if a person could be "saved" if they had not been baptized.

In the previous topic I was pointing to the pattern of the early church of new believers being baptized into the church.
Near the end of Acts chapter two we find this:
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. - Acts 2:41 NIV
Note the connection between baptism and being added to the church. (the Body of Christ)
Acts 2:47 and 5:14 also use the phrase "added to their number". Is baptism assumed in these references?

I was raised Protestant evangelical. Baptism was encouraged, but not mandatory.
A person could even join the church as a member without being baptized. Which seemed a bit odd to me,
because the ones being baptized were said to be following the Lord's command to do so.

The emphasis on "believe and be baptized" (Mark 16:16) was definitely on the believe aspect.
Even church membership was not mandatory. Definitely a consumer attitude about church commitment.

I remember a Pastor at a church we had attended for 15 or 20 years encouraging us to become members.
I jokingly told him that we didn't want to rush into anything. - LOL We were as involved as any member was.
And we were grandfathered in, since this was the fourth or fifth Pastor for us at that church.

Discussion questions:
- At what point does a believer become part of the Body of Christ?
- Does it come automatically when one believes?
- What is the relationship between church membership and the Body of Christ?
- Can a believer that has left the church be a member of the Body of Christ?
- Can an uninvolved church attender be a member of the Body of Christ?

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[Lambano]

My understanding is that "the Body of Christ" is a way of saying Christ's visible presence here on earth. His hands, His feet, His heart, His eyes. His words, His mind. His actions.

From this definition, I would have to say that a believer becomes part of Christ's visible presence on earth when he or she commits himself or herself (or themselves, or whatever personal pronouns one prefers these days, if you want to open up THAT sack of snakes) to implementing Christ's will on earth.

Baptism is a public declaration of that commitment, but I would take the position that the actual commitment takes place in the heart earlier than the public declaration. (Or maybe later.)

 

[St. SteVen]

My understanding is that "the Body of Christ" is a way of saying Christ's visible presence here on earth. His hands, His feet, His heart, His eyes. His words, His mind. His actions.

From this definition, I would have to say that a believer becomes part of Christ's visible presence on earth when he or she commits himself or herself (or themselves, or whatever personal pronouns one prefers these days, if you want to open up THAT sack of snakes) to implementing Christ's will on earth.

Baptism is a public declaration of that commitment, but I would take the position that the actual commitment takes place in the heart earlier than the public declaration. (Or maybe later.)

That's good, thanks.
It seems to me that a body has body parts. If we are acting as a body part, then we are part of the body.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

That's good, thanks.
It seems to me that a body has body parts. If we are acting as a body part, then we are part of the body.

Which begs a few questions:
- If one is NOT acting as a body part, are they really part of the body?
- And if one is NOT a part of the acting body, can they still be considered to be part of the Body of Christ?

[

 

[APAK]

Which begs a few questions:
- If one is NOT acting as a body part, can they be part of the body?
- And if one is NOT a part of the acting body, can they still be considered to be part of the Body of Christ?

[

Since a genuine believer is in the spirit of Christ, then there is a function or activity given that we do not control.

Put another way, when a person becomes a genuine believer in Christ, in his spirit, they are no longer controlled by their sinful nature, but are instead guided by the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that believers are to “walk in the Spirit” and not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). This means that the Holy Spirit takes control and guides the believer’s actions, thoughts, and decisions. They/we are functioning in the Body of Christ and we cannot dictate these spiritual/mindful and even physical functions for our lives anymore. They are there however and many do not know of them all all of them, even today.

Now the kicker is this, are we all genuine believers IN the Spirit or are many faking it and think they are in this spiritual realm today; as the wheat is mixed with the chaff.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Bible teaches that believers are to “walk in the Spirit” and not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). This means that the Holy Spirit takes control and guides the believer’s actions, thoughts, and decisions.

So, are you saying that a believer joins the Body of Christ when they learn to “walk in the Spirit”?
What happens if they return to fleshly desires? Are they then out of the Body of Christ?
We all tend to vacillate on this. Ideally, we want to be led by the Spirit, but...

One of the things discussed earlier is that a body has body parts.
If we are acting as a body part, then we are part of the body.

[

 

[APAK]

So, are you saying that a believer joins the Body of Christ when they learn to “walk in the Spirit”?
What happens if they return to fleshly desires? Are they then out of the Body of Christ?
We all tend to vacillate on this. Ideally, we want to be led by the Spirit, but...

One of the things discussed earlier is that a body has body parts.
If we are acting as a body part, then we are part of the body.

[

You are bringing up a whole new topic. In short a genuine believer doe not as a LIFSTYLE RETURN to fleshly desires, only in lapses, insignificant , yes. And they are always in the Body during this time as well. It is not a binary thing, as if you are in and then out because you do not meet some man-imposed criteria, if you sin or lapse etc. This discussion can easily lead to the OSAS or NASOS discussions

Yes, we always want to be led by the Spirit, and we do know if this power is influencing us, from time to time.

I refrain to even use the poor analogy of a human body, as then thoughts are only confined to human activities, and developed by self to please God. And that is not what a believer does or thinks...it is God-centric and not human-centric.

Folks including men of the cloth use human talents and innate gifts as examples of the working parts of the Body of Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth. It does not operate that way. Human titles and expertise might coincidentally intersect the ways of God's Spirit within the Body...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In a previous topic I asked the question: Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized?

Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized?

On another topic we were discussing baptisms. I think the actual subject of the topic was the evidence for the baptism with the Holy Spirit. But somehow we veered into questions about water baptism and salvation. At least one individual had strong feelings about the necessity of water baptism...

www.christianityboard.com

Lack of response and seeming confusion caused by my topic question led me to attempt to clarify on this topic.
It seemed that readers assumed being part of the Body of Christ was synonymous with salvation.
As if I was asking if a person could be "saved" if they had not been baptized.

In the previous topic I was pointing to the pattern of the early church of new believers being baptized into the church.
Near the end of Acts chapter two we find this:
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. - Acts 2:41 NIV
Note the connection between baptism and being added to the church. (the Body of Christ)
Acts 2:47 and 5:14 also use the phrase "added to their number". Is baptism assumed in these references?

I was raised Protestant evangelical. Baptism was encouraged, but not mandatory.
A person could even join the church as a member without being baptized. Which seemed a bit odd to me,
because the ones being baptized were said to be following the Lord's command to do so.

The emphasis on "believe and be baptized" (Mark 16:16) was definitely on the believe aspect.
Even church membership was not mandatory. Definitely a consumer attitude about church commitment.

I remember a Pastor at a church we had attended for 15 or 20 years encouraging us to become members.
I jokingly told him that we didn't want to rush into anything. - LOL We were as involved as any member was.
And we were grandfathered in, since this was the fourth or fifth Pastor for us at that church.

Discussion questions:
- At what point does a believer become part of the Body of Christ?
- Does it come automatically when one believes?
- What is the relationship between church membership and the Body of Christ?
- Can a believer that has left the church be a member of the Body of Christ?
- Can an uninvolved church attender be a member of the Body of Christ?

[

A believer becomes a part of the body, the moment of salvation. Water baptism happens afterwards and has nothing to do with being part of the body.

 

[St. SteVen]

A believer becomes a part of the body, the moment of salvation. Water baptism happens afterwards and has nothing to do with being part of the body.

Most respondents to this question want to conflate salvation with being part of the Body of Christ.
I am trying to separate the two issues to examine them separately.

While I agree in principle that a new believer becomes, or should become, a part of the Body of Christ, that might not be the case.
A body is made of parts. Each part has a function. I think the church has a fair share of members that aren't functioning as body parts.
And many have left the church all together, meaning they have no active part in any local congregation. (the church)

Can we really declare these nonperforming believers as being a part of the Body of Christ?
I'm not questioning their salvation. I am questioning their status as part of the Body of Christ.

To answer my own topic question:
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part. IMHO

Note: The Early church model was to water baptize new believers to add them to their number.
But I have no idea what the expectations on individuals were after that point.
Certainly the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles were to be followed.
And often that meant being the hands and feet of Jesus. (body parts)

[

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Most respondents to this question want to conflate salvation with being part of the Body of Christ.
I am trying to separate the two issues to examine them separately.

While I agree in principle that a new believer becomes, or should become, a part of the Body of Christ, that might not be the case.
A body is made of parts. Each part has a function. I think the church has a fair share of members that aren't functioning as body parts.
And many have left the church all together, meaning they have no active part in any local congregation. (the church)

Can we really declare these nonperforming believers as being a part of the Body of Christ?
I'm not questioning their salvation. I am questioning their status as part of the Body of Christ.

To answer my own topic question:
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part. IMHO

Note: The Early church model was to water baptize new believers to add them to their number.
But I have no idea what the expectations on individuals were after that point.
Certainly the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles were to be followed.
And often that meant being the hands and feet of Jesus. (body parts)

[

If you are talking abou tbecoming a body part in a local assembly, I agree with you.

However if you are speaking about become part of the universal body-that happens at the same time as salvation.

 

[St. SteVen]

If you are talking abou tbecoming a body part in a local assembly, I agree with you.

However if you are speaking about become part of the universal body-that happens at the same time as salvation.

Yes, that's it exactly.
I wonder how many disconnected artificial limbs are attending churches (or not) and thinking they are part of the Body of Christ.

[

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, that's it exactly.
I wonder how many disconnected artificial limbs are attending churches (or not) and thinking they are part of the Body of Christ.

[

Well that will all be revealed in the end or when those artificial limbs decide to split!

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Until then, we just keep on keeping on.

 

[Ezra]

Can a believer be a part of the Body of Christ without being water baptized?

YES water baptism does not save it by grace through faith

 

[Ezra]

YES water baptism does not save it by grace through faith

Note: The Early church model was to water baptize new believers to add them to their number.

i had this discussion years ago in another forum with a admin i went toe to toe and disagreeing .. end results i got booted out permanently banned.. water baptism follows salvation . so yes and i stand on this the very moment were saved we are placed into the Body of Christ By one spirit .....

Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
i do think water baptism is important ..but if one is in a wheel chair and can not get out..there is no way to baptize


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[Ezra]

I think the church has a fair share of members that aren't functioning as body parts.
And many have left the church all together, meaning they have no active part in any local congregation. (the church)

they may never been part of the body in the 1st place

 

[ScottA]

Discussion questions:
- At what point does a believer become part of the Body of Christ?
- Does it come automatically when one believes?
- What is the relationship between church membership and the Body of Christ?
- Can a believer that has left the church be a member of the Body of Christ?
- Can an uninvolved church attender be a member of the Body of Christ?

Being of the body of Christ, means to be "of" Christ. Of which there are perhaps different possible contexts to consider.

The most popular context is that of Christ being in you and you being in Christ. Which is more than just "believing", but occurs when one passes "from death to life" when "Jesus standing at the door knocks" and the believer opens to Him, that He should come into them as promised. This is the point of salvation and being "born again of the spirit of God", as it requires salvation to have already come into the world, following Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension.

The other context is not so popular, as it is only eluded to, and because the above context of salvation seems to overshadow and more than answer the question. However, if one considers that Jesus was "slain before the foundation of the world," and that He is "the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End", the greater context is all encompassing from the beginning to the end of time. Meaning that not only do we "partake in the suffering of Christ" on the cross, but He also partakes in the suffering of all who are "in Him", encompassing all who are included since Adam the first, including the living and the dead.

 

[St. SteVen]

@Ezra and @ScottA

Most respondents to this question want to conflate salvation with being part of the Body of Christ.
I am trying to separate the two issues to examine them separately.

While I agree in principle that a new believer becomes, or should become, a part of the Body of Christ, that might not be the case.
A body is made of parts. Each part has a function. I think the church has a fair share of members that aren't functioning as body parts.
And many have left the church all together, meaning they have no active part in any local congregation. (the church)

Can we really declare these nonperforming believers as being a part of the Body of Christ?
I'm not questioning their salvation. I am questioning their status as part of the Body of Christ.

To answer my own topic question:
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part. IMHO

Note: The Early church model was to water baptize new believers to add them to their number.
But I have no idea what the expectations on individuals were after that point.
Certainly the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles were to be followed.
And often that meant being the hands and feet of Jesus. (body parts)

[

 

[Hey You!]

Discussion questions:
- At what point does a believer become part of the Body of Christ?
- Does it come automatically when one believes?
- What is the relationship between church membership and the Body of Christ?
- Can a believer that has left the church be a member of the Body of Christ?
- Can an uninvolved church attender be a member of the Body of Christ?

[

We become the Body of Christ when we first Believe...

 

[Deborah_]

In an ideal world, we would all get baptised as soon as possible after believing, and would immediately join a local church. The believing, the baptising, and the assimilation into the Body would just be different aspects of the same event ("conversion") - which, theologically speaking, they are.
Unfortunately the world is very far from ideal, and is rarely as neat and tidy as that. So in practice you get all kinds of anomalies. The New Testament doesn't have a category of "believing, but not (yet) baptised" - yet within a few decades it became normal practice for new converts to undergo a period of up to 2 years "probation" before baptism. And there may be all kinds of reasons why genuine believers are not visibly part of a local church. (Even during Jesus' ministry, someone outside His official group of disciples was doing exorcisms in His name, and He seemed to be quite relaxed about it - Mark 9:38,39)
Rather than debating whether or not a particular individual has ticked enough boxes to be "saved", there's a lot to be said for simply minimising the anomalies. If you believe, then get baptised asap (this was Peter's approach to Cornelius in Acts 10). If you're not in a local church, join one. And then just get on with being a Christian.

 

[St. SteVen]

We become the Body of Christ when we first Believe...

Se post #17. Thanks.

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