Western Trinitarians, do not follow the early church teaching.

[Hepzibah]

I understand your concern. I was happy that the trinity was not allowed to be discussed here.
We must come to the conclusion that those that do not believe that Jesus is God, and thus do not believe
in the Trinity, really cannot be defined as Christians.

Indeed, and making newcomers qualify what they mean by Christian concerning the trinity, is obviously missing here.

Not saying they're not saved....they probably are, and they're probably better than me...
what I'm saying is that Christianity was defined 2 thousand years ago and it should not be allowed to be changed.
So I'm with you 100%.

Amen apart from your previous statement that the saved are taught by the Spirit on the trinity and therefore I say that logically cannot be saved if they teach otherwise.

Understand what you're doing...but I think explaining the Trinity to the best of our ability is really all that we need.
If you plan to study all of the variations, you'll be studying a long time...but I applaud you.

I don't think it will take a long time to understand fully what the Orthodox mean exactly when they differ on the trinity, which they indeed do. I already know what the western view is as I held to it. If we (the west) are getting it wrong, which is my point, we will not be able to withstand this attack that is coming, and already is. But thanks.

The Early Church Fathers were not present at Pentecost.
They were taught by the Apostles, or those that were taught by them.
They already were understanding and accepting that Jesus is God,,,this did not take 3 to 4 hundred years.
However, to properly explain the Trinity and have all the nations agree to the definition did take some time because of all the
heresies that had to be fought....like arianism which the Dr in the video spoke of.

They did know, as can be seen in their Divine Liturgy (service) and by writings. Action had to step up later though to combat heresies and have agreement over a name for the doctrine.

Wonder what I said to make you think that??
But the answer is NO. I'm not saying you're not a trinitarian.
I think you're a concerned trinitarian...concerned for the doctrine.

I don't know that this is a growing trend.
Maybe I'm misinformed...

I'd go further than that and say that Jesus is a part of God.
I don't think the Trinity could really be understoood.

Agreed that there is a mystery on how God and man could be joined. But here is plenty in the scriptures to tell us that, in the beginning, that is to say, at the point of creation, Jesus had come into being. Only the Father was eternal, before this age came into being, and from whom proceedeth the Son.

I had done a small study on this some years ago.
Have forgotten a lot.
My personal opinion is that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Absolultely. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, then He is equal to the Son, (but not the Father the source) but if He proceeds from the Son as well, then He is not equal. We can see that played out in the western church where the HS has not had the same attention.

You?

Filioque (/ˌfɪliˈoʊkwi, -kweɪ/ FIL-ee-OH-kwee, -⁠kway; Ecclesiastical Latin: [filiˈokwe]), a Latin term meaning "and from the Son", was added to the original Nicene Creed, and has been the subject of great controversy between Eastern and Western Christianity. The term refers to the Son, Jesus Christ, with the Father, as the one shared origin of the Holy Spirit. It is not in the original text of the Creed, attributed to the First Council of Constantinople (381), which says that the Holy Spirit proceeds "from the Father" (Greek: τὸ έκ του Πατρὸς έκπορευόμενον) without the addition "and the Son".[1]

In the late 6th century, some Latin Churches added the words "and from the Son" (Filioque) to the description of the procession of the Holy Spirit, in what many Eastern Orthodox Christians have at a later stage argued is a violation of Canon VII[2][full citation needed] of the Council of Ephesus, since the words were not included in the text by either the First Council of Nicaea or that of Constantinople.[3][full citation needed] The inclusion was incorporated into the liturgical practice of Rome in 1014, but was rejected by Eastern Christianity.

source: Filioque - Wikipedia

To get into it a little more:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Filioque

It expresses the Procession of the Holy Ghost from both Father and Son as one Principle; and, it was the occasion of the Greek schism

www.newadvent.org

So much to know...

and so little time!

 

[Hepzibah]

its the false univeraslism love that more and more now embrace . Leading them far from the one true gospel .

I don't think that Universalism is such a threat to born-agains.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think that Universalism is such a threat to born-agains.

Oh its a deadly threat to many within the church , seeing they have headed right into its trap .
How can the idea they teach now which says all religoins be serving GOD , know the same GOD we do
are coming to GOD in different ways , IN ANYWAY not BE A LIE and IS leading all far from the one true gospel .
THE ONE that says THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD , JESUS THE CHRIST , and THAT YE MUST beleive IN HIM .
OH its deadly all right . That which is of anti christ has come to take even christendom captive to the lie
it calleth love .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Oh its a deadly threat to many within the church , seeing they have headed right into its trap .
How can the idea they teach now which says all religoins be serving GOD , know the same GOD we do
are coming to GOD in different ways , IN ANYWAY not BE A LIE and IS leading all far from the one true gospel .
THE ONE that says THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD , JESUS THE CHRIST , and THAT YE MUST beleive IN HIM .
OH its deadly all right . That which is of anti christ has come to take even christendom captive to the lie
it calleth love .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

@amigo de christo

 

[Hepzibah]

Oh its a deadly threat to many within the church , seeing they have headed right into its trap .
How can the idea they teach now which says all religoins be serving GOD , know the same GOD we do
are coming to GOD in different ways , IN ANYWAY not BE A LIE and IS leading all far from the one true gospel .
THE ONE that says THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD , JESUS THE CHRIST , and THAT YE MUST beleive IN HIM .
OH its deadly all right . That which is of anti christ has come to take even christendom captive to the lie
it calleth love .

I think that Islam is the biggest threat, not liberalism, and they are not Universalists. Universalists will say believe in the Lord Jesus. Islam says He is only a prophet.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think that Islam is the biggest threat, not liberalism, and they are not Universalists. Universalists will say believe in the Lord Jesus. Islam says He is only a prophet.

Islam is easier to identify as so
but its the all inclusive liberalism mindset that is far more deadly and deceptive. WHY
cause it USES the name of JESUS , does claim to BELEIVE HE IS CHRIST
and then Decieves them all from within .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Islam is easier to identify as so
but its the all inclusive liberalism mindset that is far more deadly and deceptive. WHY
cause it USES the name of JESUS , does claim to BELEIVE HE IS CHRIST
and then Decieves them all from within .

@amigo de christo

 

[Hepzibah]

Islam is easier to identify as so
but its the all inclusive liberalism mindset that is far more deadly and deceptive. WHY
cause it USES the name of JESUS , does claim to BELEIVE HE IS CHRIST
and then Decieves them all from within .

But if you die, believing that Jesus is God and that every man will be saved in the end, how does that compare to dying and saying that Jesus was not God Almighty?

The first one does not blaspheme.

 

[amigo de christo]

But if you die, believing that Jesus is God and that every man will be saved in the end, how does that compare to dying and saying that Jesus was not God Almighty?

The first one does not blaspheme.

The first one is what they claim they believe but in truth they dont think its necessary to have to believe on HIM
and that all religoins be serving the same God we do . ITS all of anti christ friend .
THEY are USING the NAME of JESUS in order to DECIEVE . that is why the blood of all humanity
will be upon them all . You do realize the devil can quote scrip
But just as HE did in the garden HE will bring HIS LIE . surely ye shall NOT DIE
But man did .
AND JESUS said HE who beleives NOT will be damned .
He even warned those who had not repented to beleive on HIM , FAR worse for you than ever it was for sodom .
In the beginning the serpent did all to decieve eve to eat of the WRONG TREE
now he and his men once again decieve even the church
that , SURELY YE WONT PERISH if you BELIEVE NOT . OH He is slick indeed my friend .
SEEING I KNOW WHOM JESUS IS
and seeing you even made that same claim . LETS TREAT HIS WORDS as THOUGH HE BE GOD okay .
LETS not heed men who try and omit them warnings as though JESUS didnt mean what HE SAID .

 

[Hepzibah]

But I don't understand the concept of one world church, when Islam is growing by the day and they are not Universalists.

 

[amigo de christo]

But I don't understand the concept of one world church, when Islam is growing by the day and they are not Universalists.

Then sit back my friend and take notice that more and more imams are leading their own into this one lovey do church .
They have not just been infiltrating christendom , they inflitrated all religoins and did so years ago .
They are now going around trying to teach all religoins on what we have in common . THEY are mergingthem friend .
That is how they do it . You preach what they all have in common ,
a love idea that claims to LOVE GOD and its neighbor . With that in mind
you also have to break down walls and barriers , known as Removing core doctrines
from within . because their core fundamental doctrines DO oppose the others .
SO you keep removing the core doctrines and all the while keep the focus on this love stuff , this judge not correct not .
THIS is how you remold ALL the religoins . AND ITS WHAT they beendoing for a while freind .
Soon all will merge under this universal concept of what it calls love and claims is of GOD .
ONLY it WAS NOT GOD or HIS LOVE . TO unify the religoins
YOU GOTTA remove their core fundamental beleifs , make the doctrines seem less and less necessary
and this other love seem as the key . Breaking down walls , building bridges . MAN they sure did dupe a lot of folks my friend.
And this will only get worse .

 

[JLB]

Fair enough but I am still learning about it and it is not easy to grasp, once we have been indoctrinated by western Trinitarianism as I have been. I will continue however, to try to convey it and post videos.

I find I can watch at 2X speed if I have subtitles on. More later.

Do you believe Jesus Christ the LORD; YHWH the LORD God who spoke through the Old Testament prophets?


I think sometimes we try and pit one group against another, and using extra-biblical words and terms can add to the confusion.


What do you believe?



JLB

 

[amigo de christo]

But I don't understand the concept of one world church, when Islam is growing by the day and they are not Universalists.

The idea we serving the same GOD has been the punch line all along . BEEN THE LIE they desired us to beleive .
And you would be shocked to see how many christains , jews , muslims , hindus and other relgions
ARE NOW BELEIVING this to be the case . THEY BEEN AT WORK FRIEND .
for a long long time . Rick warren was but a co helper as was the seeker friendly .
INTERFAITH WILL FINISH all not in the lambs book of life OFF to BELIEVE THE LIE .
And the solutoin to rid the earth of all who conformed not WILL BE GIVEN and the decieved will beleieve
this was the will of god . NEVER knowing they followed satan
and will come against the few true WHO DID NOT CONFORM .
ON that day men like me will be seen as no less dangerous than the worst extremist muslim terroist .
Already that concept has began to come within places . My advice
We better get in THE BIBLE and stay refreshed in the bible
and beware for this delusion grows by the day and by the hour and this false love will take them all
to a ride to PERDITION .

 

[Hepzibah]

Do you believe Jesus Christ the LORD; YHWH the LORD God who spoke through the Old Testament prophets?

Yes absolutely.

I think sometimes we try and pit one group against another, and using extra-biblical words and terms can add to the confusion.


What do you believe?



JLB

I said.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We do have however, a high-ranking JW in our midst. I say high-ranking because this person admits to have been a JW for 50 years

I have a slew of JW's in my family and I have gone head to head with couple of their Elders. They got frustrated and actually sick after the encounter - they do not bother with any more. But still, I love my family regardless, we just don't talk Bible, it's futule.

Why are there so many Protestant denominations then if the HS is guiding each one?

Man's flaws are factored into his plan. Lables, names, and some doctrinal differences is all. The main purpose is to reconcile people to God through Christ. A relationship with Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Father is what is crucial. Misunderstandings of the various doctrines do not invalidate one's gift of eternal life. I was taught in mainly one church by a brilliant educated pastor. There were 3k in our congregation. Even within our church I could find those who had different views from me. There were even some partial preterists, (Amillenialists), but mostly Pre-Millennial. Why?
My pastor focused on winning people, equipping them and then sending them out. He didn't get into eschatology like I do. He said there were too many views and so left it alone... would say, "It will all pan out in the end."

Forgive me but I don't think you are understanding how persuasive their argument is on the logical side. It is the Biblical ignorant young believers that I am concerned about since we now increasingly have a stage instead of a pulpit.

The Holy Spirit converts the soul. And so man's persuasion goes out void, only the proper seeds of the Word are planted.

Dr Branson, is Eastern Orthodox,

And so a different view, which is acceptable.

You cannot understand it just like that so I doubt whether you really do. If so then please explain it to ne as I am still learning.

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. That is a plural form describing the Triune God.
There was no Son of God until the day Jesus was conceived or at least born. So the preincarnate Jesus was God, coequal with who we identify now as the Father and the Holy Spirit. Yahweh spoke to Moses in Ex. 3:14 - that was the preincarnate Christ.

"For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace"

That is a description of the Triune God, Who is perceived as One, but three persons.

 

[Hepzibah]

The idea we serving the same GOD has been the punch line all along . BEEN THE LIE they desired us to beleive .
And you would be shocked to see how many christains , jews , muslims , hindus and other relgions
ARE NOW BELEIVING this to be the case . THEY BEEN AT WORK FRIEND .
for a long long time . Rick warren was but a co helper as was the seeker friendly .
INTERFAITH WILL FINISH all not in the lambs book of life OFF to BELIEVE THE LIE .
And the solutoin to rid the earth of all who conformed not WILL BE GIVEN and the decieved will beleieve
this was the will of god . NEVER knowing they followed satan
and will come against the few true WHO DID NOT CONFORM .
ON that day men like me will be seen as no less dangerous than the worst extremist muslim terroist .
Already that concept has began to come within places . My advice
We better get in THE BIBLE and stay refreshed in the bible
and beware for this delusion grows by the day and by the hour and this false love will take them all
to a ride to PERDITION .

Yes I know that Christianity has been infiltrated by Interfaith, But I don't see that as our biggest enemy. When the numbers of Muslims are great enough in each country, then they will take over and declare holy war which is what I am seeing.

 

[Hepzibah]

And those who have been persuaded to think that Christ is not God, as the Muslims do, they will not put up much of a fight.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes I know that Christianity has been infiltrated by Interfaith, But I don't see that as our biggest enemy. When the numbers of Muslims are great enough in each country, then they will take over and declare holy war which is what I am seeing.

I understand why it is you might think this .
Beleive me i know the old hard core muslim would for sure desire to have done just this .
But the delusion is of the inclusion .
ITS WORLD GOVT OWNED
and soon enough THROUGH LAWS and etc
with all the power of the beast and technology
and their digital system , ALL who did not conform and comply to the LIE , they NO BUY .
and will be hunted down all over the world . ITS all coming in like a flood my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes I know that Christianity has been infiltrated by Interfaith, But I don't see that as our biggest enemy. When the numbers of Muslims are great enough in each country, then they will take over and declare holy war which is what I am seeing.

To see who holds the power and the influence
go too and behold even the imams . as they too have bowed the knee to interfaith abraham peace accords
which came not of Islam but of Sie vatican . they kiss the ring of POPES .
I SEEN WHO RUNS THE INTERFAITH SHOW . while i see all religions present
I SEE a key leader who has sold the churches out and has done more than any other
to merge these religoins .