Biblical Repentance

[Simonides]

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[Simonides]

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[Titus]

God does not punish his children Titus. "Punishes" is a very poor translation.

As is "scourge". And the definition you provided. You may need a bigger Lexicon, or did you cherry pick that definition?

Its not an accusation, but a sincere question.

You do realize that Paul was quoting from the book of Proverbs?

The same verse in proverbs, also NKJV

"My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor detest His correction;
For whom the Lord loves He corrects,
Just as a father the son in whom he delights."

This is a much better translation of the original Hebrew. Its likely that Paul was quoting from the Septuagint, I can't verify this as mine is in storage at the moment.

At any rate. Back to your question. As you've noticed, no one here seems to be all that interested in answering your question. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but as Lambo remarked earlier today, "assume that like guns, all questions are loaded".

For me, I haven't bothered to answer your question, because based upon the context,

[a text, taken out of context, is a pretext]

I don't believe the Lord Jesus Christ was teaching about repentance here. So formulating doctrines of repentance, or even drawing strong conclusions for that matter, from a text that wasn't really addressing the topic at hand... Well, let's just say its probably not very helpful.

But what the heck, I'll play along. I'm kind of curious at this point what your agenda really is here, so here's your question, and your answer.


"Could the son who first told his father he would not work in his fathers vineyard but later repented and went....
Could this son have repented if he did not go and work in his fathers vineyard?"

Yes. Most definitely. 100%

Your answer is right there in the text. "repented and went.." But I don't think you see it, and in fact, I think you see something else entirely. I think what you see, is "went and repented".

But what do I know? I'm no scholar, no mind reader, just some guy on the
Internet.

So there's your answer. And now you can finally tell the rest of us exactly what it is you have been dying to get off your chest.

Thanks for answering.
Yes I will teach on Matthew 21 as I all ready have in this article.
You have great animosity toward me and I don't know why?

Anyways I see you have an aversion to punishment.
I was physically whipped with a heavy leather belt more than all my siblings.
I'm the youngest from a family of 6.
1 older brother who died from a motorcycle accident two weeks before going off to college.

Simple reason why I was punished more than my brother and four older sisters is because is I DESERVED IT.

I was the most rebellious in my family always causing trouble.
But thanks be to God I had two God fearing parents that whipped the devil right out of me!!!!

Why is crime among black men higher than any other ethnic group in America?
Answer: They have no fathers only single mothers to raise them.

No Father to punish young boys results in angry young men that have never been given guidance, instruction on how to behave and love in the form of discipline.

I'm surprised at any person who claims to be a Christian that only sees the punishment of ones bad actions(sin) as a negative.

Our God, is whose eyes we should look through not leaning on our own understanding.
The God in heaven in all His infinite wisdom commands that physical punishment must be practiced.
Physical punishment and other forms of discipline according to Gods wisdom is love.

Proverbs 13:24,
- he who spares his rod HATES HIS SON, but he who loves his him disciplines him diligently

Our physical fathers show us love through punishment.
How much greater love does our heavenly Father have for us that He would withhold His love from us
and not correct us when we are falling away from Him?

Paul suffered, and God new his suffering was good,
2Corinthians 12:8-10,
- three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me,
Each time He said My grace is sufficient for you for My power is made perfect in weakness, therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weakness so that the power of Christ may rest upon me

Hebrews 12:7,
- Endure hardship as discipline God is treating you as His children, for what children are not disciplined by their Father

Chastening is hard to endure at times because it can be punishment in order that we grow spiritually.

I thank God for the times He has brought suffering and hardship on me.
It is what has molded me into the christian that I am today.

 

[marks]

Well whether or not we can prove our point, at least we are all in agreement on what it is we are discussing. Wow, did I just say that? Maybe we should all get together for a group photo?

This is the way it should be!

Much love!

 

[Titus]

Hi Titus
Very good post...
The word REPENT is not used correctly these days..it's used to mean that one is sorry for having sinned,
but, of course, your definition is correct.
It means to turn and go the other way.

I don't believe it's possible to stop sinning, but I do believe our love for Christ will have an impact on our lives and sinning will be held to a minimum - whatever that is I'm not willing to say.

Some believe they never sin....this is not what the NT teaches since Jesus Himself forgave sins and gave the same authority to the Apostles.
Some believe everything is sin and they worry about having blasphemed God.

I like 1 John chapters 1 and 2 and 1 John 3:9 when he tells us not to live a life of sin.

Thank you for your kind words

 

[Johann]

Yes, when you quoted me, or from my post rather. But I was quoting Zhodiates.

The verse you requested.


Here is Proverbs 3:12 from the Septuagint (LXX) with parsing information for the key Greek words:

Greek Text (LXX - Proverbs 3:12)
ὃν γὰρ ἀγαπᾷ κύριος παιδεύει, μαστιγοῖ δὲ πάντα υἱὸν ὃν παραδέχεται.

Translation
"For whom the Lord loves, He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives."

Parsing Information
ὃν (hon)

Gloss: "whom"
Part of Speech: Relative pronoun
Case, Gender, Number: Accusative, Masculine, Singular
Refers to the direct object of the Lord's action.
γὰρ (gar)

Gloss: "for"
Part of Speech: Conjunction
Explains or provides a reason for the preceding statement.
ἀγαπᾷ (agapāi)

Gloss: "loves"
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense, Voice, Mood, Person, Number: Present, Active, Indicative, 3rd Person, Singular
Denotes ongoing love by the Lord.
κύριος (kyrios)

Gloss: "Lord"
Part of Speech: Noun
Case, Gender, Number: Nominative, Masculine, Singular
Subject of the sentence.
παιδεύει (paideuei)

Gloss: "disciplines"
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense, Voice, Mood, Person, Number: Present, Active, Indicative, 3rd Person, Singular
Refers to the Lord's act of discipline, emphasizing ongoing action.
μαστιγοῖ (mastigoi)

Gloss: "scourges"
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense, Voice, Mood, Person, Number: Present, Active, Indicative, 3rd Person, Singular
Describes the act of chastisement or scourging, continuous in nature.
δὲ (de)

Gloss: "and" or "but"
Part of Speech: Conjunction
Connects the two actions (disciplines and scourges).
πάντα (panta)

Gloss: "every"
Part of Speech: Adjective
Case, Gender, Number: Accusative, Masculine, Singular
Modifies the noun "son."
υἱὸν (huion)

Gloss: "son"
Part of Speech: Noun
Case, Gender, Number: Accusative, Masculine, Singular
Object of "scourges."
ὃν (hon)

Gloss: "whom"
Part of Speech: Relative pronoun
Case, Gender, Number: Accusative, Masculine, Singular
Refers back to "son."
παραδέχεται (paradechetai)

Gloss: "receives"
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense, Voice, Mood, Person, Number: Present, Middle, Indicative, 3rd Person, Singular
Indicates the Lord’s acceptance of the son.

Observations
The verbs παιδεύει (disciplines) and μαστιγοῖ (scourges) are both in the present tense, emphasizing ongoing or habitual action by the Lord.
The use of ὃν γὰρ ("for whom") introduces the explanation for why discipline occurs, linking it to the Lord's love.
παραδέχεται (receives) is in the middle voice, showing personal involvement in the act of receiving a son.
This verse aligns closely with Hebrews 12:6 in the New Testament, which cites this LXX text almost verbatim.

J.

 

[Simonides]

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[Simonides]

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[amigo de christo]

Love this:

"No more sacrifice for sins" (οὐκέτι περὶ ἁμαρτιῶν ἀπολείπεται θυσία)"

"This does not imply that Christ’s sacrifice is insufficient. Rather, if one rejects Christ’s sacrifice, there is no alternative or additional sacrifice available for forgiveness."

Good post brother. Your studies are admirable.

So why on earth is more and more of this church age headed into the lie of interfaith .
Which clearly its leader have made known . The lie that our truth is no better than any other religoins .
That every religoin , THOUGH IT SURE DOES DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST , is still coming to GOD in its own way .
WHO ever sings that song is partaker of anti christ and will Be held accountable to JESUS THE CHRIST on HIS DAY .
This ever growing diverse inclusive path , which they claim is love and of GOD , is leading them only
into more and more and upmost rebellion against GOD and HIS CHRIST . and that there love of theirs
had led them to see true saints as haters who dont even KNOW GOD .
This is one bad path many are entering into . IF they dont get out of it , THEY DONE FOR on the DAY of the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Perfect means "mature"

J.

yes they mature in Christ . well the sad fact is , however by the time most should have been teachers
they have a dire need to actually be taught again, what MOST no longer even truly believe .
And that is ONE MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST .
IN fact if anyone does not BELIEVE the TESTIMONY that GOD HIMSELF gave of the SON
they call GOD A LIAR .
What i just wrote is and should be a simple truth for even babes to have known .
Seems like more and more try and find a fake love path around this .
But is that love . Does love , would love rejoice in a lie , in inquity . NO SIR .
CHARITY REJOICES ONLY IN THE TRUTH . And Last time i checked EVER WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH .
AS HE IS TRUTH ,as CHRIST IS TRUTH , as the SPIRIT is TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF TRUTH . OF CHRIST .

 

[Johann]

So pretty much what we already knew.
Thanks Johann.
Words change meaning over time. No translation is 100% reliable, not even the earliest manuscripts.
And this is why we have the Spirit of God.
And why it is so important not to grieve the Spirit.
Guaranteed, at the source of all division within the Body of Christ, there's will be a grieving of the Spirit. It couldn't happen otherwise.

At the moment I am very tired-are you saying the Bible is is not reliable?

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen brother.

J.

What do you suppose happens to those who TROD CHRIST Under foot
Salvation , or damnation . If you picked the latter you are correct .

 

[amigo de christo]

At the moment I am very tired-are you saying the Bible is is not reliable?

J.

SOUND IT OUT AGAIN . For we know the BIBLE IS RELIABLE . its men that aint often very reliable . But the BIBLE IS .

 

[MatthewG]

I have been chastened by the LORD, @Simonides. It sucks but you learn from it. I'm thankful for all my losses. Even though it still sucks. It's been worth going through.


Most people don't like the idea of being punished, but when Yahavah does it. You'll either ignore it totally, or you'll realize it for what it is.

 

[Simonides]

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[MatthewG]

SOUND IT OUT AGAIN . For we know the BIBLE IS RELIABLE . its men that aint often very reliable . But the BIBLE IS .

People don't like when you actually use the bible contextually though. They will call you a heretic for doing so, or a child of the devil, or someone who just is "self-rightous," or something else more egregious. All while trying to do work for the good of Yahavah.

Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

 

[amigo de christo]

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is the POWER of GOD . its the one true gospel of JESUS the CHRIST .
it is the POWER of GOD unto salvation unto all who do BELIEVE .
Now go look real closely at verse five again .
NIGH the end they would have a form of godliness but DENY the POWER thereof .
NOW GO LOOK AT INTERFAITH ALL INCLUSIVE DUNG PILE LIE . IT HAS DENIED THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
IT has DENIED the POWER of GOD . and look at this rebellions false love church age and socities
that embrace this all inclusive diverse strange sin accepting UNBELIEF accepting BROAD ROAD FALSE LOVE path they say LEADS
to GOD . WE n the last days . AND the very peace n safety they believe this lie will attain
EVEN THOUGH MANY HAND JOINS IN HAND under its lie , THEY aint gonna see PEACE N SAFETY
rather SUDDEN destruction FROM ON HIGH and FROM ABOVE by the VERY BIBLICAL JESUS THE CHRIST and GOD Their false love DENIED .

 

[Simonides]

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[amigo de christo]

People don't like when you actually use the bible contextually though. They will call you a heretic for doing so, or a child of the devil, or someone who just is "self-rightous," or something else more egregious. All while trying to do work for the good of Yahavah.

Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

people who love the god of the mirror often gather by troops under men who preach against the TRUTH
and wont warn against sin , error and even NOW UNBELEIF . something has went wrong .
Satan has and his men and his peoples have , been woking or working from within
to remove TRUTH and make true doctrine seem as though its in the way
and he preaches a love that all peoples of humanity can agree upon and find common ground with .
MANY thereby which have entered into THE VERY BROAD and ever growing path , BELEIVING ITS LOVE and of GOD .
WHEN ITS OF SATAN . so out of love i must warn us all
HAVE NO PART or lott in this all inclusive sin accepting , interfaith LIE .
REMEMBER WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham beleived . YET when JESUS SPEAKS , MANY dont seem to beleive
HIS WORDS . DO TRY and REMEMBER that IF JESUS said it , IT DID COME OF GOD .
SO as children let us simply BELEIVE .
MANY claim to believe IN JESUS but sure dont seem to BELEIVE HIS WORDS . THAT IS A BAD BAD SIGN
they follow another jesus .

 

[Titus]

Jesus gave a perfect example of repentance in Matthew 21:28.
You should accept Jesus' teaching.

Yes let's discuss repentance.
In Matthew 21:28 would the son have repented if he had not gone to work in the vineyard?

Well at least you admit your depravity.

Post #16 First "page"
I asked my question that I have recieved no answer to.
I have been accused over, and over of waiting to ask this question and giving an answer.
Nonsense,
I asked my question at the beginning of this discussion.
The very people accusing me of drawing this out are the very ones who still have not given an answer.
The accusations dont bother me just pointing out the facts in my own defense.

.When you disagree with God you are wrong 100% of the time.
Proverbs 13:24,
- whoever spares the rod HATES THEIR CHILDREN but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them

If you disagree with this,
Proverbs 3:5-6,
- trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
in all your ways submit to Him and He will make your paths straight