Biblical Repentance
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I think its okay to say punish because its both written out as such and contained in the defintions between Chasten and punish, to use them interchangable
Levitucus 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
The word punish there means
Same as here as Jesus says
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
to train children
to be instructed or taught or learn
to cause one to learn
to chastise
to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
of God
to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
to chastise with blows, to scourge
of a father punishing his son
of a judge ordering one to be scourged
Levitucus 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
The word punish there means
- to chasten, discipline, instruct, admonish
- (Qal)
- to chasten, admonish
- to instruct
- to discipline
- (Niphal) to let oneself be chastened or corrected or admonished
- (Piel)
- to discipline, correct
- to chasten, chastise
- (Hiphil) to chasten
- (Nithpael) to teach
- (Qal)
Same as here as Jesus says
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
to train children
to be instructed or taught or learn
to cause one to learn
to chastise
to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
of God
to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
to chastise with blows, to scourge
of a father punishing his son
of a judge ordering one to be scourged
If memory serves, I think the ancient Hebrew origin of the word meant to examine, long before the practice of scourging. It was adopted to mean scourging after that practice began. In quoting the Proverbs, the writer of Hebrews may have had that meaning in mind. Not that the Father whips His children until they are broken and bloody.
Not to say His chastening can be an easy process to endure, and I speak from experience!
Much love!
Exactly! He was teaching concerning what you say compared to what you do. The one son said he wouldn't go (we presume he meant it) and then repented - changed his mind - and went. Because he went, even though his words were otherwise, this one did what was desired.
Prostitutes and publicans began as the ones saying no, then going anyway. The Pharisees say yes, but don't go. That's what Jesus was teaching concerning. But I perceive you already understand these things.
Much love!
I think Pilate examined Jesus even, before he was ordered to be scourged
Luke 23:19 Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
John 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. |
I can't find it @marks-
No standard Hebrew lexicon explicitly connects the concept of "examination" with the Hebrew terms for "scourging." Lexicons generally treat words like שׁוֹט (shōṭ) or נָכָה (nakah) as terms for physical punishment, while words like חָקַר (ḥāqar) and בָּחַן (bāḥan) are used for mental, moral, or spiritual "examination."
1. Brown-Driver-Briggs (BDB) Lexicon
שׁוֹט (shōṭ):
Defined as "whip" or "scourge."
No mention of "examination."
Used in contexts of physical discipline (e.g., Proverbs 26:3).
נָכָה (nakah):
Defined as "to strike," "smite," or "beat."
Used broadly for physical acts, including judicial punishment (e.g., Deuteronomy 25:2-3).
No connotation of mental or moral "examination."
חָקַר (ḥāqar) and בָּחַן (bāḥan):
Defined as "to search," "examine," or "prove."
Always used in contexts of investigation, inquiry, or testing, but not physical punishment.
2. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT)
שׁוֹט (shōṭ):
Describes a literal whip or instrument of punishment.
No association with examination.
נָכָה (nakah):
Focuses on physical striking or affliction.
Includes contexts of judicial flogging but does not imply testing or examining.
חָקַר (ḥāqar):
Describes searching or examining, particularly by God (e.g., Psalm 139:23).
Completely separate from scourging or punishment.
3. Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
שׁוֹט (shōṭ):
Defined as "a scourge or whip."
Refers to physical punishment; no connotation of examination.
חָקַר (ḥāqar) and בָּחַן (bāḥan):
Defined as "to search," "examine," or "test."
Always tied to intellectual or moral examination, not physical acts.
4. HALOT (Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament)
שׁוֹט (shōṭ):
Refers to a whip or scourge, used literally.
No connection to testing or examination.
חָקַר (ḥāqar):
Refers to searching or investigating, especially in a divine or legal sense.
Does not overlap with physical punishment.
Conclusion
Lexicons uniformly differentiate between "scourging" and "examination," treating them as separate concepts. While ancient cultural practices might have connected physical punishment with a form of testing or proving, there is no direct lexical evidence to suggest that the Hebrew term for scourging (shōṭ or similar terms) originally meant "to examine."
J.
Hi Titus
Very good post...
The word REPENT is not used correctly these days..it's used to mean that one is sorry for having sinned,
but, of course, your definition is correct.
It means to turn and go the other way.
I don't believe it's possible to stop sinning, but I do believe our love for Christ will have an impact on our lives and sinning will be held to a minimum - whatever that is I'm not willing to say.
Some believe they never sin....this is not what the NT teaches since Jesus Himself forgave sins and gave the same authority to the Apostles.
Some believe everything is sin and they worry about having blasphemed God.
I like 1 John chapters 1 and 2 and 1 John 3:9 when he tells us not to live a life of sin.
I'm having a hard time remembering where I sourced this. It looks like I may be wrong.
Much love!
You are absolutely correct-many desire a long, comfortable life while overlooking what Scripture teaches about suffering. Yet, every believer in Christ who seeks to live a godly life will inevitably face suffering and persecution.
1 Peter 4:12-14
Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.
Matthew 5:10-12
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Hebrews 10:32-34
But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.
James 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
1 Peter 2:19-20
For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
Acts 5:41
So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.
Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 1:6-7
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
Luke 6:23
Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.
Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
2 Corinthians 12:8-10
Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Philippians 1:12-14
But I want you to know, brethren, that the things which happened to me have actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel, so that it has become evident to the whole palace guard, and to all the rest, that my chains are in Christ; and most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!
1 Peter 3:14
But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you are blessed. "And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled."
1 Peter 4:19
Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
J.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I was just looking at that, so far as I can see it supports whipping or the like as the meaning.
Proverbs 3:12 Brenton
12) for whom the Lord loves, he rebukes, and scourges every son whom he receives.
ὃν γὰρ ἀγαπᾷ κύριος παιδεύει μαστιγοῖ δὲ πάντα υἱὸν ὃν παραδέχεται
Much love!
Heres a few on his chastening us in various fashions
Prov 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Duet 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
When we are judged thats being chastened
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1) to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
b) of God
1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
1) of a father punishing his son
2) of a judge ordering one to be scourge
In th above we see when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, and the chastening and rebuke of His children are shown together here
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children,
My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord,
nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain,
a man for the punishment of his sins?
Punishment is the same thing
1) rebuke, correction, reproof, punishment, chastisement
Chastisement is greivous, the cry in the Pslam
The blow of his hand
Psalm 39:10 Remove thy stroke away from me:
I am consumed by the blow of thine hand.
Next verse...
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity...
Even as it says here...
Heb 12:11 No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous:
nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Look at the word afflicted here, one of the words is "exercised" likewise
Pslam 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.
Hebrews (again) adresses us as children
My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, (( then are )) ye bastards, and not sons
What could possibly be bound up in us?
Prov 22: 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction (( shall drive it )) far from him.
Speaks of inward stripes
Prov 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil:
so do stripes (( the inward parts )) of the belly.
Even as Jesus speaks of stripes (or blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes
Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth:
therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
I think there are a few repeats in there because I was showing something else in these verses and I had to go back and delete, and it would break up the flow too much (sorry about that).
Prov 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
Duet 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
When we are judged thats being chastened
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1) to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
b) of God
1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
1) of a father punishing his son
2) of a judge ordering one to be scourge
In th above we see when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, and the chastening and rebuke of His children are shown together here
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children,
My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord,
nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain,
a man for the punishment of his sins?
Punishment is the same thing
1) rebuke, correction, reproof, punishment, chastisement
Chastisement is greivous, the cry in the Pslam
The blow of his hand
Psalm 39:10 Remove thy stroke away from me:
I am consumed by the blow of thine hand.
Next verse...
Psalm 39:11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity...
Even as it says here...
Heb 12:11 No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous:
nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Look at the word afflicted here, one of the words is "exercised" likewise
Pslam 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.
Hebrews (again) adresses us as children
My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, (( then are )) ye bastards, and not sons
What could possibly be bound up in us?
Prov 22: 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction (( shall drive it )) far from him.
Speaks of inward stripes
Prov 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil:
so do stripes (( the inward parts )) of the belly.
Even as Jesus speaks of stripes (or blows)
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes
Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth:
therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
I think there are a few repeats in there because I was showing something else in these verses and I had to go back and delete, and it would break up the flow too much (sorry about that).
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