Knowing the Day and the Hour of the Lord's Coming

[Ronald Nolette]

Sure. From your above post:

"the Lord physically returns to earth." -- The Lord does not return "physically to the earth" as if in the flesh, for it is written: "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also" (John 14:19); and "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward" (John 13:36); and "if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also" (John 14:3). And (meanwhile) "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" (Revelation 3:20). All of which does not describe a physical return of Jesus to the earth, but a spiritual return, followed by our being taken unto that spirit realm of God--whom "is spirit"--meaning Jesus also "is spirit" at that point--because He is God...and "God is spirit."

Sorry but Jesus physically ascended to heaven and will physically return to earth as He promised.

Rev. 19 proves that as well as Acts 1 also and many other verses. John in his epistle declares anyone who denies Jesus is coming back in the flesh is an antichrist( 1 John 4:3

1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

And come is the second perfect active participle. A participle verb is best translated in English with an "ing" ending.

But as for Jesus returning to easrth?

Let us look at the words of the Master Himself:

Revelation 1:7

King James Version

​

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:27-31

King James Version

​

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hosea 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Acts 1:9-11

King James Version

​

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry but Jesus physically ascended to heaven and will physically return to earth as He promised.

Rev. 19 proves that as well as Acts 1 also and many other verses. John in his epistle declares anyone who denies Jesus is coming back in the flesh is an antichrist( 1 John 4:3

1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

And come is the second perfect active participle. A participle verb is best translated in English with an "ing" ending.

But as for Jesus returning to easrth?

Let us look at the words of the Master Himself:

Revelation 1:7​

​

King James Version​

​

​

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:27-31​

​

King James Version​

​

​

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hosea 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Acts 1:9-11​

​

King James Version​

​

​

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Of course there are lots of passages to refer to, for the misunderstandings and misinterpretations have been going on for millennia. I might have to number your objections.

1. Jesus ascending "physically" is an assumption. What is written is rather, "in like manner" not actually stating just what manner was meant. However...after Jesus' 3 year ministry, and now all that is written, it should be understood that Jesus came to announce and declare the birth of the spirit, of whom He is "firstfruits." But there is so much more. He also clarified that "God is spirit" and that He was going to the Father to be One again with Him (spirit); and that "the [spiritual] kingdom of God had come upon them." And therefore "ascension" could not mean a "physical" reunion with God the Father...unless the Father was going to "lower" Himself to be "physical." And anyone tracking with the fulness of these events would have to be--well, slow of understanding all of the information. Which, is not personal...but a purposeful restraint by God, not unlike the blindness that came upon Israel for the same reason of putting off all truth until the fulness of the gentiles has come. And here we are.
2. As for confessing that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh--what did you think "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" (Revelation 3:20) meant?
3. As for "coming with clouds" and "every eye seeing"...do you think that the passage only means every eye of those living in the world at one little moment in time? That's crazy. "Every eye" would certainly mean every eye that had ever lived--which would also mean "coming with clouds" is not describing Jesus coming on a cloud nine flying carpet touching down in the world He said would not see Him any more--but would mean the likeness of the waters above and below the firmament, as if vaporized...which is ascension by conversion, "but each one in his own order" as Paul stated. And "from the east unto the west" confirms that it is not the eyes of one little group seeing, but is all inclusive, from the beginning to the end of time.
4. As for "returning to My place"--His kingdom--His place--is "not of this world" (or this old earth).

Do you understand that all of this is describing laying down the flesh and taking up the spirit--as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and God is spirit and we are to be One with Him--to see Christ as He is, and to be like Him?

 

[Hobie]

All truth (John 16:13) and the finish of the mystery of God (Revelation 10:7) is promised. Meaning, there is a time when we actually do come to "know the day and the hour" of the Lord's coming (Matthew 24:36).

That day and hour--although many do not recognize or acknowledge it as such--is the day and hour in which the Lord comes knocking and we open to Him (Revelation 3:20). At such a time we are born again of the spirit of God, as that is the time of His spirit coming into us. Such is the culmination of all scripture and the works of God toward our salvation. In that moment one is changed, having passed from death to life, never to be the same, as a new creation.

Much confusion however, has come from the fact that we who are alive and spiritually anew within, remain within our old physical self until the Lord is through with our physical body which then carries the good news and testimony of Christ within. Paul referred to this, saying "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:14). Which does not mean that He has not yet come unto those alive and remaining, but rather that He has not yet come to all--to whom we who are alive and remain then aid in His coming to those to whom He comes after us. Which we do by the word of our testimony (Revelation 12:11).

As for those who do not recognize or acknowledge these things as such, many are the victims of foretold false teachers who have hindered those who were entering in. All of which was to continue until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. These are those times.

As for those who are not sure whether they are born again of the spirit of God (which is the spirit of Christ entering into them), you can know by the notable change within you. There are things we once loved, we no longer love, but come to hate. Even so, our old self may still love those things we have inwardly come to hate. This is that struggle that Paul confessed, saying "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice" (Romans 7:19). It is for this reason that we are counselled to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13).

When you hear God say "It is finished ", then you will know. The problem is the wicked will not listen or say it was thunder or some other sound and not repent and continue to perdition...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course there are lots of passages to refer to, for the misunderstandings and misinterpretations have been going on for millennia. I might have to number your objections.

1. Jesus ascending "physically" is an assumption. What is written is rather, "in like manner" not actually stating just what manner was meant. However...after Jesus' 3 year ministry, and now all that is written, it should be understood that Jesus came to announce and declare the birth of the spirit, of whom He is "firstfruits." But there is so much more. He also clarified that "God is spirit" and that He was going to the Father to be One again with Him (spirit); and that "the [spiritual] kingdom of God had come upon them." And therefore "ascension" could not mean a "physical" reunion with God the Father...unless the Father was going to "lower" Himself to be "physical." And anyone tracking with the fulness of these events would have to be--well, slow of understanding all of the information. Which, is not personal...but a purposeful restraint by God, not unlike the blindness that came upon Israel for the same reason of putting off all truth until the fulness of the gentiles has come. And here we are.
2. As for confessing that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh--what did you think "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" (Revelation 3:20) meant?
3. As for "coming with clouds" and "every eye seeing"...do you think that the passage only means every eye of those living in the world at one little moment in time? That's crazy. "Every eye" would certainly mean every eye that had ever lived--which would also mean "coming with clouds" is not describing Jesus coming on a cloud nine flying carpet touching down in the world He said would not see Him any more--but would mean the likeness of the waters above and below the firmament, as if vaporized...which is ascension by conversion, "but each one in his own order" as Paul stated. And "from the east unto the west" confirms that it is not the eyes of one little group seeing, but is all inclusive, from the beginning to the end of time.
4. As for "returning to My place"--His kingdom--His place--is "not of this world" (or this old earth).

Do you understand that all of this is describing laying down the flesh and taking up the spirit--as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and God is spirit and we are to be One with Him--to see Christ as He is, and to be like Him?

1. It is a reality! He physically rose from the dead, was seen by over 500 and ascended into heaven in the body the Apostles saw right before He ascended. that is fact, not assumption.

2. It is a metaphor. Jesus being with us is through the agency of the Holy Spirit. currently Jesus is in heaven making intercession for the saints as it is written.

3. Well you added "little moment in time". God is smarter than us and knows how to speak. If He says every eye will see HIm- every eye will see Him! The bible doesn't speak of how long that takes- you added that to the Scripture.

4. Correct Jesus returned to heaven and will come back physically when Israel acknowledges their one sin and declares blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

 

[amigo de christo]

Genesis 27:2 “I am an old man now,” Isaac said, “and I don’t know when I may die.

you aint that old mathew , LOL . but you Tonight could be the last day on earth
you breathe air , or even me or anyone .
SO we had better make sure the JESUS we FOLLOW and LOVE , be the JESUS IN said scriptures , HIS TRUTH .
cause mathew , i must admit i tremble in fear for your soul . I AM seeing way too much influence
of inclusive love , WHICH BE OF THE WORLD l might add , within you .
Mathew , if i didnt love you i would say nothing . NOW lets get in the bible again for ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, and it is God who imposed that confusion upon all language, until just before the end. Then, and only then were things to be made clear. Which things I now declare.

I did not claim that "Jesus' coming was not back in history, nor in the future." I simply explained what He and Paul said of His return. Even so, even though the actual truth was not to come until just before the end, rejection was to remain even to the end.

scott you are scaring the children my friend . what so called hidden knowledge do you beleive you now possess
Something is starting to seem very dead wrong my friend . You need PM
me and tell me all about this NEW end time revelation and knoweldge . okay my friend .

 

[ScottA]

When you hear God say "It is finished ", then you will know. The problem is the wicked will not listen or say it was thunder or some other sound and not repent and continue to perdition...

You make a great point.

Jesus (as the Last of Israel, and the First of the firstfruits of the Spirit) announced that "It is finished" regarding Israel--who are the dead in Christ--as He said "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.". But that moment of "It is finished" does not come to those who come after Jesus as firstfruits, until He comes into then--as Paul said, "but each one in his own order."

 

[ScottA]

1. It is a reality! He physically rose from the dead, was seen by over 500 and ascended into heaven in the body the Apostles saw right before He ascended. that is fact, not assumption.

First--I am not going to keep rehashing all these issues after all this time--but rather declare the truth, for this is that time.

I explained the above regarding Jesus' ascension already--in an effort to first offer reason. And to finish with that effort, please try to reason within yourself that in order to show what is otherwise not visible--as what is in spirit is not visible to the flesh--God simply showed what was occurring, only to be understood according to all that He had first prefaced those acts with by the words and declarations of Christ. Otherwise, if it were not to be a revelation of things unseen, after his forty days among the disciples, Jesus would have simply disappeared before their eyes. But, indeed, it was a revelation of things otherwise unseen. Even so, the complete truth ("all truth" and the "complete mystery of God") was not to be revealed until just before the end. Which now declares the times.

2. It is a metaphor. Jesus being with us is through the agency of the Holy Spirit. currently Jesus is in heaven making intercession for the saints as it is written.

That is not "all truth." But rather, having gone to the Father, Jesus is now again One Spirit with the Father--and omnipresent. Meaning, those born again of the spirit of God, are One also with Him, as we are His body and His bride, as One.

3. Well you added "little moment in time". God is smarter than us and knows how to speak. If He says every eye will see HIm- every eye will see Him! The bible doesn't speak of how long that takes- you added that to the Scripture.

I added nothing, but referred rather to what you seemed to assume was a "one moment in time" event (--which it is not), saying Jesus "will physically return to earth as He promised."

As for the "smarter" Godly word, that is what I explained.

4. Correct Jesus returned to heaven and will come back physically when Israel acknowledges their one sin and declares blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

Those (again) are assumptions, the teachings of men. Jesus does not return "physically" except spiritually within His own body, the church, made up of those born again of the spirit of God.

As for Israel acknowledging their sin, having preceded us--they have already acknowledged all. And yes, even now Israel is with Him blessing Him who now comes unto the gentiles.

 

[ScottA]

scott you are scaring the children my friend . what so called hidden knowledge do you beleive you now possess
Something is starting to seem very dead wrong my friend . You need PM
me and tell me all about this NEW end time revelation and knoweldge . okay my friend .

I have already stated it publicly:

But I will ask a question that anyone is welcome to consider: Just how were God's people to go from "believing a lie" of "destructive doctrines" and "great apostacy", to knowing "all truth" and the "finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets", if not by the same written and established methods, from Him who "is the same yesterday, today, and forever?" Have you imagined something else, something against what is now written and established?

 

[Harvest 1874]

For those interested we have just finished covering this subject in the blog section found on this site under the title, THE PAROUSIA (PRESENCE) OF OUR LORD JESUS. This study is especially presented for the true "Watchers", those have an ear to hear and who long for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[pepper]

We say we believe in Jesus and God's word in the four Gospels.

Then for generations later there on occasion arrives those who think to contradict Jesus and God's words in His Good News.

Jesus stated,no one,not even He,the Son of Man/God, knows the day or hour of His second coming. ONLY The Father knows.

That's it. Period.

I always recall the Millerite when reading threads like this.

The Great Disappointment
Great Disappointment - Wikipedia

 

[ScottA]

For those interested we have just finished covering this subject in the blog section found on this site under the title, THE PAROUSIA (PRESENCE) OF OUR LORD JESUS. This study is especially presented for the true "Watchers", those have an ear to hear and who long for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

UNFORTUNATELY, that study is according to the "destructive doctrines" taught by the "false teachers" foretold by Peter, and the "lie" warned of by Paul.

 

[ScottA]

We sat we believe in Jesus and God's word in the four Gospels.

Then for generations later there on occasion arrives those who think to contradict Jesus and God's words in His Good News.

Jesus stated,no one,not even He,the Son of Man/God, knows the day or hour of His second coming. ONLY The Father knows.

That's it. Period.

I always recall the Millerite when reading threads like this.

The Great Disappointment
Great Disappointment - Wikipedia

Okay. So, what do you say--would you say that the promise of "all truth" made by Christ, includes, or does not include "knowing the day or the hour of the coming of the Son of man?"

 

[pepper]

Okay. So, what do you say--would you say that the promise of "all truth" made by Christ, includes, or does not include "knowing the day or the hour of the coming of the Son of man?"

I already said it.

 

[ScottA]

I already said it.

Yes, but you are not addressing the issue, but avoiding it.

The issue of this thread is the difference between what was true when Jesus answered the question (in present tense 2,000 years ago), as opposed to after receiving "all truth" promised as future tense. Which means Jesus was either lying about not knowing or about all truth--because all means all. Or both statements are true, but not at the same time.

I am saying both statements by Jesus are true, as stated.

In other words, for both statements by Jesus to be true, not knowing the day or hour of His coming would be true for a while, and then at some point it would no longer be true, but would be known at such a time that all truth was/is revealed. And that time is biblically stated as: "for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end" (Daniel 12:9), and "in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" (Revelation 10:7).

Meanwhile...if you do not care to delve into it--that's fine.

 

[pepper]

Yes, but you are not addressing the issue, but avoiding it.

The issue of this thread is the difference between what was true when Jesus answered the question (in present tense 2,000 years ago), as opposed to after receiving "all truth" promised as future tense. Which means Jesus was either lying about not knowing or about all truth--because all means all. Or both statements are true, but not at the same time.

I am saying both statements by Jesus are true, as stated.

In other words, for both statements by Jesus to be true, not knowing the day or hour of His coming would be true for a while, and then at some point it would no longer be true, but would be known at such a time that all truth was/is revealed. And that time is biblically stated as: "for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end" (Daniel 12:9), and "in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" (Revelation 10:7).

Meanwhile...if you do not care to delve into it--that's fine.

Well, let's review..

Jesus,who was The Word,God, made flesh so to dwell among us over 2000 years ago said of His second coming....

And in a different prophetic passage written by Apostle John whom Jesus loved,the Apostle on the Isle of Patmos wrote: "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen."


And now in 2025 ScottA insists he can interpolate Scripture and,like countless others before him, posit the arrival of Jesus and His second coming.

Proceed.
James 3

 

[ScottA]

Well, let's review..

Jesus,who was The Word,God, made flesh so to dwell among us over 2000 years ago said of His second coming....

And in a different prophetic passage written by Apostle John whom Jesus loved,the Apostle on the Isle of Patmos wrote: "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen."


And now in 2025 ScottA insists he can interpolate Scripture and,like countless others before him, posit the arrival of Jesus and His second coming.

Proceed.
James 3

That's not a "review"--that's YOUR view.

Meanwhile, the promise of God are being fulfilled, of which you have grossly overlooked while hindering those who have ears to hear...as He said, "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them" (Isaiah 42:9).

 

[pepper]

That's not a "review"--that YOUR view.

Meanwhile, the promise of God are being fulfilled, of which you have grossly overlooked while hindering those who have ears to hear...as He said, "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them" (Isaiah 42:9).

Your review,my review. It's a forum after all.

I'm not hindering anyone. Mortals don't overcome God's leading of His Saints.

The hindrance you judge of me is derived from your thinking you can lead people to see things your way.

"I have however, openly and publicly given my qualifications in detail, the sum of more than a few books, even revealing my God given purpose witnessed of me in the biblical record."
ScottA

You certainly don't like correction. You appear to have an Apostle complex.

God wrote "The Book".
How do you think you know better?

 

[amigo de christo]

I have already stated it publicly:

But I will ask a question that anyone is welcome to consider: Just how were God's people to go from "believing a lie" of "destructive doctrines" and "great apostacy", to knowing "all truth" and the "finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets", if not by the same written and established methods, from Him who "is the same yesterday, today, and forever?" Have you imagined something else, something against what is now written and established?

That was why peter had wrote and said to the church that he would make a way
for them to have these things ALWAYS in remembrance . They kept the letters of the original apostels
The BIBLE IS GOOD Meat for us scott . But many had rather heed men who twist , who omit
and who even downplay the dire importance of learning the scrips for oneself .
Leaven has run wild under those methods . Wild and to the roof . its high time
the call be made for all peoples to make an exodus from the doctrines of men by making an ENTRODUS
back into that bible to learn and to grow for themselves .

 

[Marvelloustime]

That was why peter had wrote and said to the church that he would make a way
for them to have these things ALWAYS in remembrance . They kept the letters of the original apostels
The BIBLE IS GOOD Meat for us scott . But many had rather heed men who twist , who omit
and who even downplay the dire importance of learning the scrips for oneself .
Leaven has run wild under those methods . Wild and to the roof . its high time
the call be made for all peoples to make an exodus from the doctrines of men by making an ENTRODUS
back into that bible to learn and to grow for themselves .

@amigo de christo