Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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APAK

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Here it this in a different translation, God's word translation. Sometimes it helps to gain more understanding to read it differently.
John 1

1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was already with God in the beginning.

3 Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him.

4 He was the source of life, and that life was the light for humanity.

5 The light shines in the dark, and the dark has never extinguished it.

6 God sent a man named John to be his messenger. 7 John came to declare the truth about the light so that everyone would become believers through his message. 8 John was not the light, but he came to declare the truth about the light.

9 The real light, which shines on everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him. Yet, the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He went to his own people, and his own people didn’t accept him. 12 However, he gave the right to become God’s children to everyone who believed in him. 13 These people didn’t become God’s children in a physical way—from a human impulse or from a husband’s desire ⌞to have a child⌟. They were born from God.

14 The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness [a] and truth.

15 (John declared the truth about him when he said loudly, “This is the person about whom I said, ‘The one who comes after me was before me because he existed before I did.’ ”)
Hey Scott: I believe that John 1:1 has really been beaten to death and overbaked to where one cannot make sense of what the words actually mean anymore.

Just take a real good look at John 1:1b.

What does it really say and mean?
"...and the word was with or towards/facing GOD..."

Now if you just read this part of John 1:1b for the first time in your life, and someone next to you suddenly asked you this question. If the word was with or facing God then logically what the word was/is, is NOT GOD at all or never can be God, right?! Do you agree or not Scott?

Can you answer this `question without going to other places for the answer? It should be elementary to provide the answer, right?
 

Scott Downey

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Jhn 1:1 In (1) the (a) beginning (b) was (c) the Word, and the Word was (d) with God, and the (e) Word was God.

(1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father.
(a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things.
(b) Had his being.
(c) This word "the" points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this "Word", which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God.
(d) This word "with" points out that there is a distinction of persons here.
(e) This word "Word" is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word "God" is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence.

Jhn 1:3 (2) All (f) things were made by him; and (g) without him (h) was not any thing made that was made.
(2) The Son of God declares that his everlasting Godhead is the same as the Father's, both by the creating of all things, and also by preserving them, and especially by the excellent gifts of reason and understanding with which he has beautified man above all other creatures.
(f) Paul expounds on this in Col 1:15 - 16.
(g) That is, as the Father did work, so did the Son work with him: for the Son was a fellow worker with him.
(h) Of all those things which were made, nothing was made without him.

Jhn 1:4 (i) In him (k) was life; and the life was (l) the light of men.
(i) That is, by him: and this is spoken after the manner of the Hebrews, meaning by this that by his force and working power all life comes to the world.
(k) That is, even at that time when all things were made by him, for otherwise he would have said, "Life in him", and not "life was".
(l) That force of reason and understanding which is kindled in our minds to acknowledge him, the author of so great a benefit.

Jhn 1:5 (3) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness (m) comprehended it not.
(3) The light of men is turned into darkness, but yet there is enough clearness so that they are without excuse.
(m) They could not perceive nor reach it to receive any light from it, no, they did not so much as acknowledge him.

Jhn 1:6 (4) There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
(4) There is another more full manifestation of the Son of God, by the consideration of which men are in good time stirred up, even to John's voice, who is as it were the herald of Christ.

Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] (n) through him might believe.
(n) Through John.

Jhn 1:8 He was not (o) that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
(o) That light which we spoke of, that is, Christ, who alone can enlighten our darkness.

Jhn 1:9 (5) [That] was (p) the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
(5) When the Son of God saw that men did not acknowledge him by his works, although they were endued with understanding
() (which he had given to all of them), he exhibited himself unto his people to be seen by them with their physical eyes: yet not even then did they acknowledge him or receive him.
(p) Who alone and properly deserves to be called the light, for he shines by his own accord and borrows light from no one.

Jhn 1:10 (q) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(q) The person of the Word was made manifest even at that time when the world was made.

Jhn 1:11 He came (r) unto his own, and his own received him not.
(r) The Word showed himself again when he came in the flesh.

Jhn 1:12 (6) But as many as received him, to them gave he (s) power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
(6) The Son being shut out by the majority of his people, and acknowledged but by a few, regenerates those few by his own strength and power, and receives them into that honour which is common to all the children of God, that is, to be the sons of God.
(s) He condescended to give them this power to take them to be his children.

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the (t) will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(t) Of that shameful and corrupt nature of man, which is throughout the scriptures described as an enemy of the spirit.

Jhn 1:14 (7) And the Word was made (u) flesh, and (x) dwelt among us, (and we beheld his (y) glory, the glory (z) as of the only begotten of the Father,) (a) full of grace and truth.
(7) That Son who is God from everlasting took upon himself man's nature, so that one and the selfsame might be both God and man, who manifestly appeared to many witnesses that saw him, amongst whom he was conversant and unto whom by sure and undoubted arguments he showed both of his natures.
(u) That is, man: so that, by the figure of speech synecdoche, the part is taken for the whole: for he took upon himself our entire nature, that is to say, a true body, and a true soul.
(x) For a time, and when that was ended, he went up into heaven: for the word which he uses is used with reference to tents: and yet nonetheless he is always present with us, though not in flesh, but by the power of his spirit.
(y) The glory which he speaks of here is that manifestation of Christ's majesty, which was as it were openly placed before our eyes when the Son of God appeared in the flesh.
(z) This word "as" does not indicate here a likeness, but rather the truth of the matter, for his meaning is this, that we saw such a glory which suited and was proper for the true and only begotten Son of God, who is Lord and King over all the world.
(a) He was not only a partaker of grace and truth, but was full of the very substance of grace and truth.





 

David in NJ

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What Does the Name Elohim Teach Us about God?​

Elohim is the third word in the Bible in its original Hebrew. So what does it mean?

Hebrew scholars translate Elohim as God in modern English Bibles. Elohim comes from the Canaanite word El, which means “mighty one.” Elohim is the third word in the Bible in its original Hebrew. "In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth." (Gen. 1:1)
Elohim is the third word
 

David in NJ

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Hey Scott: I believe that John 1:1 has really been beaten to death and overbaked to where one cannot make sense of what the words actually mean anymore.

Just take a real good look at John 1:1b.

What does it really say and mean?
"...and the word was with or towards/facing GOD..."

Now if you just read this part of John 1:1b for the first time in your life, and someone next to you suddenly asked you this question. If the word was with or facing God then logically what the word was/is, is NOT GOD at all or never can be God, right?! Do you agree or not Scott?

Can you answer this `question without going to other places for the answer? It should be elementary to provide the answer, right?
I believe that John 1:1 has really been beaten to death and overbaked to where one cannot make sense of what the words actually mean anymore.
That's right!!!
and this is your downfall
 
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David in NJ

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Hey Scott: I believe that John 1:1 has really been beaten to death and overbaked to where one cannot make sense of what the words actually mean anymore.

Just take a real good look at John 1:1b.

What does it really say and mean?
"...and the word was with or towards/facing GOD..."

Now if you just read this part of John 1:1b for the first time in your life, and someone next to you suddenly asked you this question. If the word was with or facing God then logically what the word was/is, is NOT GOD at all or never can be God, right?! Do you agree or not Scott?

Can you answer this `question without going to other places for the answer? It should be elementary to provide the answer, right?
Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he? — Isaiah 2:22
 

APAK

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That's right!!!
and this is your downfall
I see you are already throwing peanuts in the gallery. Maybe they are pebbles that may turn into stones soon afterwards. Are you getting irritated then? Well good, I hope so, as your conscience is still working and maybe burning..!
 

marks

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Some will believe the testimony of God found in His Word.
Others will get angry.
And some won't care at all.
This thread shows many examples of how far unbelieving people will go to deny Christ, and how infantile they will become to try to win their argument.

It's sad, but that's how the world is.

Much love!
 

Scott Downey

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Matthew 10

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
 

Wrangler

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This thread shows many examples of how far unbelieving people will go to deny Christ
Appeal to Strawman. No one in this thread denies Christ. It''s the trinity doctrine that is denied because it is not in Scripture that is denied extreme eisegesis notwithstanding.

What is denied by trinitarians is there is only one God, the Father, stated explicitly and repeatedly in Scripture.
 

amigo de christo

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Remember these words of yours, my Brother in Christ
The time wherein the darkest of delusion and reprobation would run wild is upon this final generation .
A voice and voices will unify this people and they will beleive they all as one mind and one heart follow the love god .
There is a particular reason why that god was not captilized .
 

marks

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Appeal to Strawman. No one in this thread denies Christ. It''s the trinity doctrine that is denied because it is not in Scripture that is denied extreme eisegesis notwithstanding.

What is denied by trinitarians is there is only one God, the Father, stated explicitly and repeatedly in Scripture.
There is no "appeal to" anything, I'm not making an argument, I'm expressing my view.

You deny Christ when you deny His deity. Yes, I know, we disagree. Even so, you have to somehow come to terms with the fact that others believe you to be wrong on this, without losing your composure. Or I guess that's up to you. But this somehow seems to trigger something in you, like a few others as well.

Much love!
 
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David in NJ

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The time wherein the darkest of delusion and reprobation would run wild is upon this final generation .
A voice and voices will unify this people and they will beleive they all as one mind and one heart follow the love god .
There is a particular reason why that god was not captilized .
And there is only One LIGHT that will carry us thru the coming Darkness

Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path. - Psalm 119:105
 

amigo de christo

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You deny Christ when you deny His deity. Yes, I know, we disagree. Even so, you have to somehow come to terms with the fact that others believe you to be wrong on this, without losing your composure. Or I guess that's up to you. But this somehow seems to trigger something in you, like a few others as well.

Much love!
many beleive satan and his co workers . As they run and sit under a love
message they THINK BE OF GOD but is of anti christ .
Lets focus for a while on the word BELEIVE . then peek around
and see how many really deep down whole heartedly even BELIEVE
one must BELEIVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST . and not rather try and make beleive
that somehow these other religoins WHO FLAT OUT DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST , gots good people in them
that did as best they could and Etc .
I once said that interfaith false love all inclusive unity is one hard PILL to swallow , seeing it has DENIED JESUS THE CHRIST ,
but alas i soon realized something .
IT AINT HARD at all ,
its not hard for me at all
WHY , cause one has to put its horsedung in they mouth in the first place to even be able to try and swallow it .
AND FRIEND I DONT EMBRACE DUNG let along swallow it . You know more and more everyday
what kind of man you see me as . THIS GRINGO NEVER GONNA COMFORM mark , i had rather die and suffer
the worst of suffering than to EVEN SIT YES EVEN TO SIT at the table of a false love god that has made the path to GOD broad
The questoin is , what should this world do to me like me mark . Round us up , maybe reeducate us
Do you see men like myself as a danger or do you see as simply the few who wont conform to the lie .
 
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