Knowing the Day and the Hour of the Lord's Coming

[ScottA]

All truth (John 16:13) and the finish of the mystery of God (Revelation 10:7) is promised. Meaning, there is a time when we actually do come to "know the day and the hour" of the Lord's coming (Matthew 24:36).

That day and hour--although many do not recognize or acknowledge it as such--is the day and hour in which the Lord comes knocking and we open to Him (Revelation 3:20). At such a time we are born again of the spirit of God, as that is the time of His spirit coming into us. Such is the culmination of all scripture and the works of God toward our salvation. In that moment one is changed, having passed from death to life, never to be the same, as a new creation.

Much confusion however, has come from the fact that we who are alive and spiritually anew within, remain within our old physical self until the Lord is through with our physical body which then carries the good news and testimony of Christ within. Paul referred to this, saying "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:14). Which does not mean that He has not yet come unto those alive and remaining, but rather that He has not yet come to all--to whom we who are alive and remain then aid in His coming to those to whom He comes after us. Which we do by the word of our testimony (Revelation 12:11).

As for those who do not recognize or acknowledge these things as such, many are the victims of foretold false teachers who have hindered those who were entering in. All of which was to continue until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. These are those times.

As for those who are not sure whether they are born again of the spirit of God (which is the spirit of Christ entering into them), you can know by the notable change within you. There are things we once loved, we no longer love, but come to hate. Even so, our old self may still love those things we have inwardly come to hate. This is that struggle that Paul confessed, saying "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice" (Romans 7:19). It is for this reason that we are counselled to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13).

 

[Davy]

Good, the philosophical essay in the OP, that has nothing to do with what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24, gives me opportunity to explain just what Jesus meant about us watching at the end of this world for His coming.

Knowing the day and the hour of Jesus' coming per Matthew 24:38-47 is about the idea that no one knows the actual 'date' or 'time' when Jesus will return. Thus Jesus commanded His servants to be 'watching'.

WATCHING WHAT??

"Well, just be ready", many would say. But how?

Lord Jesus told us in Matthew 24:4 to not let any man deceive us. HOW do we not let any man deceive us?

Is your Church answering the above questions? They should be, because Lord Jesus and His Apostles did answer them. How did Lord Jesus answer those questions above?

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus was asked by His disciples with Him upon the Mount of Olives what would be the SIGN of His coming, and of the end of this world. Then Jesus gave them SEVEN SIGNS of the 'end' leading up to His future return! His discourse to His disciples there is popularly called the Olivet Discourse.

Those SEVEN SIGNS Jesus gave are... the SIGNS of the Seals of Revelation 6.

That means to study Jesus' Olivet Discourse and the Seals of Rev.6 together at the same time.

The FINAL SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse is that of His future coming to gather His faithful Church, AFTER... the "great tribulation".

So I what I am showing you who seriously read this, and check it out in your Bible study, is strong meat, something you can CHEW ON that will FEED your soul, and not a bunch philosophy of men that take a passage out of God's Word and turn it into some kind of fantasy feast.

Thus Lord Jesus gave us WHAT TO WATCH, and that... is how we won't let any man deceive us! It's because He told us what is going to happen at the end, and we can TRUST HIM COMPLETELY that it will happen just as He says.

So are you WATCHING those SIGNS Jesus gave us in His Olivet Discourse and the Revelation Seals, so as to not be deceived? Or are you just claiming, "I'm ready", and you don't have a clue as to where your stand in the timeline leading up to Lord Jesus' future return? Do you think an "any moment" doctrine will fit in Jesus' command for us to WATCH those SIGNS He gave us?

Are you letting man deceive you with falsely saying you don't have to be concerned with WATCHING those SIGNS Jesus gave, because you're going to be raptured prior to the "great tribulation", when Jesus said His coming to gather us will be AFTER... that tribulation?

Luke 12:39-40
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
KJV

By WATCHING, like Jesus commanded us to do, it means staying awake so we will know what "hour" that symbolic "thief" will come. Per Revelation 16:15, on the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus said He "comes as a thief". So that break in like a thief idea He gave is about the hour of His future coming. The above means we are supposed... to be aware of that 'hour' by WATCHING those SIGNS He gave leading up to His coming.


Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

Who would the above apply to that DOES NOT WATCH and why? If you don't WATCH Jesus' SIGNS He gave, then you will not know as the 'hour' of His coming approaches, and His servants ARE to know, as the above verse warning does reveal.

In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul gave some other SIGNS of the end leading up to Jesus' future coming on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world. Paul was pulling from the Old Testament prophets, and called the SIGNS Lord Jesus covered as "the times and the seasons". Paul said the brethren there had no need for him to remind them of the "times and the seasons", for they already knew them. What Paul was pointing to were those SIGNS of the end leading up to Christ's future return. A lot of it was first given through God's Old Testament prophets, especially events on the day of Christ's future return, called the "day of the Lord". Is you Church teaching about all this? If not, then why not, since it is a matter that Lord Jesus Himself COMMANDED for us to be WATCHING! (Mark 13:35-37).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All truth (John 16:13) and the finish of the mystery of God (Revelation 10:7) is promised. Meaning, there is a time when we actually do come to "know the day and the hour" of the Lord's coming (Matthew 24:36).

That day and hour--although many do not recognize or acknowledge it as such--is the day and hour in which the Lord comes knocking and we open to Him (Revelation 3:20). At such a time we are born again of the spirit of God, as that is the time of His spirit coming into us. Such is the culmination of all scripture and the works of God toward our salvation. In that moment one is changed, having passed from death to life, never to be the same, as a new creation.

Much confusion however, has come from the fact that we who are alive and spiritually anew within, remain within our old physical self until the Lord is through with our physical body which then carries the good news and testimony of Christ within. Paul referred to this, saying "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:14). Which does not mean that He has not yet come unto those alive and remaining, but rather that He has not yet come to all--to whom we who are alive and remain then aid in His coming to those to whom He comes after us. Which we do by the word of our testimony (Revelation 12:11).

As for those who do not recognize or acknowledge these things as such, many are the victims of foretold false teachers who have hindered those who were entering in. All of which was to continue until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. These are those times.

As for those who are not sure whether they are born again of the spirit of God (which is the spirit of Christ entering into them), you can know by the notable change within you. There are things we once loved, we no longer love, but come to hate. Even so, our old self may still love those things we have inwardly come to hate. This is that struggle that Paul confessed, saying "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice" (Romans 7:19). It is for this reason that we are counselled to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13).

Well we do not know the time of the rapture. but all can know the time of when the Lord physically returns to earth.

It will be seven years after Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the antichrist (commencing the 70th week of Daniel)

 

[ScottA]

Good, the philosophical essay in the OP, that has nothing to do with what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24, gives me opportunity to explain just what Jesus meant about us watching at the end of this world for His coming.

Knowing the day and the hour of Jesus' coming per Matthew 24:38-47 is about the idea that no one knows the actual 'date' or 'time' when Jesus will return. Thus Jesus commanded His servants to be 'watching'.

WATCHING WHAT??

"Well, just be ready", many would say. But how?

Lord Jesus told us in Matthew 24:4 to not let any man deceive us. HOW do we not let any man deceive us?

Is your Church answering the above questions? They should be, because Lord Jesus and His Apostles did answer them. How did Lord Jesus answer those questions above?

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus was asked by His disciples with Him upon the Mount of Olives what would be the SIGN of His coming, and of the end of this world. Then Jesus gave them SEVEN SIGNS of the 'end' leading up to His future return! His discourse to His disciples there is popularly called the Olivet Discourse.

Those SEVEN SIGNS Jesus gave are... the SIGNS of the Seals of Revelation 6.

That means to study Jesus' Olivet Discourse and the Seals of Rev.6 together at the same time.

The FINAL SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse is that of His future coming to gather His faithful Church, AFTER... the "great tribulation".

So I what I am showing you who seriously read this, and check it out in your Bible study, is strong meat, something you can CHEW ON that will FEED your soul, and not a bunch philosophy of men that take a passage out of God's Word and turn it into some kind of fantasy feast.

Thus Lord Jesus gave us WHAT TO WATCH, and that... is how we won't let any man deceive us! It's because He told us what is going to happen at the end, and we can TRUST HIM COMPLETELY that it will happen just as He says.

So are you WATCHING those SIGNS Jesus gave us in His Olivet Discourse and the Revelation Seals, so as to not be deceived? Or are you just claiming, "I'm ready", and you don't have a clue as to where your stand in the timeline leading up to Lord Jesus' future return? Do you think an "any moment" doctrine will fit in Jesus' command for us to WATCH those SIGNS He gave us?

Are you letting man deceive you with falsely saying you don't have to be concerned with WATCHING those SIGNS Jesus gave, because you're going to be raptured prior to the "great tribulation", when Jesus said His coming to gather us will be AFTER... that tribulation?

Luke 12:39-40
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
KJV

By WATCHING, like Jesus commanded us to do, it means staying awake so we will know what "hour" that symbolic "thief" will come. Per Revelation 16:15, on the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus said He "comes as a thief". So that break in like a thief idea He gave is about the hour of His future coming. The above means we are supposed... to be aware of that 'hour' by WATCHING those SIGNS He gave leading up to His coming.


Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

Who would the above apply to that DOES NOT WATCH and why? If you don't WATCH Jesus' SIGNS He gave, then you will not know as the 'hour' of His coming approaches, and His servants ARE to know, as the above verse warning does reveal.

In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul gave some other SIGNS of the end leading up to Jesus' future coming on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world. Paul was pulling from the Old Testament prophets, and called the SIGNS Lord Jesus covered as "the times and the seasons". Paul said the brethren there had no need for him to remind them of the "times and the seasons", for they already knew them. What Paul was pointing to were those SIGNS of the end leading up to Christ's future return. A lot of it was first given through God's Old Testament prophets, especially events on the day of Christ's future return, called the "day of the Lord". Is you Church teaching about all this? If not, then why not, since it is a matter that Lord Jesus Himself COMMANDED for us to be WATCHING! (Mark 13:35-37).

LET THE READER UNDERSTAND:

A "lie" was foretold that would bring in "strong delusion" and great apostacy (2 Thessalonians 2:11). That "lie" (as the above quoted post states) was and is that Jesus' return would only be in the "future." Which is completely contrary to what Jesus himself actually said would be "soon" and "quickly" and "must shortly take place" (Revelation 1:1). Meaning, that the above accusation of "philosophy" is actually phycological projection by men who followed the teachings of other men who's interpretation of what is written they failed to understand.

 

[ScottA]

Well we do not know the time of the rapture. but all can know the time of when the Lord physically returns to earth.

It will be seven years after Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the antichrist (commencing the 70th week of Daniel)

Unfortunately, those interpretations are according to the "lie" foretold by Paul ((2 Thessalonians 2:11).

To the contrary, Jesus said, "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also" (John 14:19). Meaning, there is no "physical return to the earth" by Jesus, and that although what He spoke of was indeed regarding the rapturous experience--He was rather referring to those being raised up before God in the Judgement, not on earth but in the heavens.

As for the "7 year covenant", the "time, times, and half a time" (also given as 70 weeks), refers rather to the outline given in the beginning with the seven days of creation, in accordance with "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them" (Isaiah 42:9)...the "former things" having passed even "before the foundation of the world." History then is the fulfillment of what God first told us in His account of the seven days of creation.

 

[quietthinker]

Unfortunately, those interpretations are according to the "lie" foretold by Paul ((2 Thessalonians 2:11).

To the contrary, Jesus said, "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also" (John 14:19). Meaning, there is no "physical return to the earth" by Jesus, and that although what He spoke of was indeed regarding the rapturous experience--He was rather referring to those being raised up before God in the Judgement, not on earth but in the heavens.

As for the "7 year covenant", the "time, times, and half a time" (also given as 70 weeks), refers rather to the outline given in the beginning with the seven days of creation, in accordance with "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them" (Isaiah 42:9)...the "former things" having passed even "before the foundation of the world." History then is the fulfillment of what God first told us in His account of the seven days of creation.

You are the master of hijack Scott. Your use of the scriptures to peddle your own 'fantasies' knows no bounds.

 

[MatthewG]

Genesis 27:2 “I am an old man now,” Isaac said, “and I don’t know when I may die.

 

[ScottA]

You are the master of hijack Scott. Your use of the scriptures to peddle your own 'fantasies' knows no bounds.

And you--you criticize what you do not understand with name calling.

 

[quietthinker]

And you--you criticize what you do not understand with name calling.

...and you ole fella cannot differentiate between name calling and stating the obvious.

 

[ScottA]

...and you ole fella cannot differentiate between name calling and stating the obvious.

With each such statement of criticism you sound more and more like "the obvious" know-it-alls of the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus' time.

 

[quietthinker]

With each such statement of criticism you sound more and more like "the obvious" know-it-alls of the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus' time.

Have it your way Scott. Vision has a different flavour.

 

[Davy]

Don't be deceived by philosophical lackeys who treat Christ's future coming as if it already happened back in history. That idea of course is a LIE, and is completely against God's written Word.

And Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 was very clear on the order of events for Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church, that the Antichrist ("man of sin") MUST be revealed first along with a time of great falling away.

The great apostasy, or falling away, that Apostle Paul said will happen is linked... to that "man of sin" appearing first, PRIOR to Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. That means of course Paul showed that any idea of a rapture PRIOR to those events is false.

Also what is false, is the LIE some tell against Apostle Paul's idea of the "strong delusion". The "strong delusion" Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 is tied to the main subject of that Chapter, which is the coming of that false one, the "man of sin", and why is that false one's appearing about the "strong delusion"??

Easy, the "strong delusion" is about the appearing of that "man of sin" playing The Christ (Messiah) in Jerusalem at the end of this world, and the majority will believe it truly is Messiah having come. It WILL NOT BE MESSIAH (Jesus Christ) though, it will be a FAKE! And that... is the "strong delusion".

So will YOU be deluded (fooled, deceived) by that false one that comes first, playing Messiah? If so, then Paul's "strong delusion" will be upon you!

 

[JLB]

Well we do not know the time of the rapture

Of course we know the time of the rapture.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming; The second coming of Christ.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23

 

[Davy]

Well we do not know the time of the rapture. but all can know the time of when the Lord physically returns to earth.

It will be seven years after Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the antichrist (commencing the 70th week of Daniel)

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Listen to Lord Jesus, not man.

Do you know what Lord Jesus shortened that "great tribulation" to? He told you; it is written, just not in that Matthew 24 Chapter.

The 'order' of the SIGNS He gave are still valid, but the actual time of the tribulation He has shortened.

Thus the 7 years idea from the Book of Daniel is no longer an accurate time measure. It shows Jesus doesn't want us setting dates and times, but instead actually WATCHING the SIGNS leading up to His coming that He gave us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Unfortunately, those interpretations are according to the "lie" foretold by Paul ((2 Thessalonians 2:11).

Then please show from Scripture how these are a lie.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course we know the time of the rapture.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming; The second coming of Christ.

The rapture is not connected with the physical return of Jesus to earth. they are separate events.

The rapture pulls believers dead and alive off the earth to bring us to heaven. Jesus return is for Him to setr His throne on earth and establish the Millennial kingdom.

 

[ScottA]

Don't be deceived by philosophical lackeys who treat Christ's future coming as if it already happened back in history. That idea of course is a LIE, and is completely against God's written Word.

To be clear--what you say here is true.

Even so, what you have said speaking as if the coming of Christ is only "future" is also "against God's written Word." Those two opposing beliefs are equally in error, for lack of understanding. Whereas, in reality--according to God's written Word, Christ comes when He "knocks" on the door, "but each one (individual) in his own order" (Revelation 3:20, 1 Corinthians 15:23).

Let the READER see for themselves.

 

[ScottA]

Well we do not know the time of the rapture. but all can know the time of when the Lord physically returns to earth.

It will be seven years after Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the antichrist (commencing the 70th week of Daniel)

Then please show from Scripture how these are a lie.

Sure. From your above post:

"the Lord physically returns to earth." -- The Lord does not return "physically to the earth" as if in the flesh, for it is written: "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also" (John 14:19); and "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward" (John 13:36); and "if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also" (John 14:3). And (meanwhile) "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" (Revelation 3:20). All of which does not describe a physical return of Jesus to the earth, but a spiritual return, followed by our being taken unto that spirit realm of God--whom "is spirit"--meaning Jesus also "is spirit" at that point--because He is God...and "God is spirit."​

"It will be seven years after Israel signs the 7 year covenant with the antichrist (commencing the 70th week of Daniel)" -- The seventy week prophecy is not about a only future time, but as it is written, "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24). Daniel's "people" begins with Adam and continues to include all who are included in God's promise to Abraham--meaning, from the beginning unto the end of time. Which is confirmed by the inclusion of "To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness." The common misunderstanding is that the statement, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end" (Daniel 12:9) means it does not come "till the time of the end"--which is just not what it says.​

 

[Davy]

To be clear--what you say here is true.

Even so, what you have said speaking as if the coming of Christ is only "future" is also "against God's written Word." Those two opposing beliefs are equally in error, for lack of understanding. Whereas, in reality--according to God's written Word, Christ comes when He "knocks" on the door, "but each one (individual) in his own order" (Revelation 3:20, 1 Corinthians 15:23).

Let the READER see for themselves.

That above idea is only confusion...

How can you claim Jesus' coming was not back in history, nor in the future? Oh, I know. It's because of man's philosophy you picked up somewhere allegorizing the events in The Bible, turning literal prophetic events into some Edgar Allan Poe short story.

No, Lord Jesus' return is still future, and will be a literal bodily coming, His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth, as written in Acts 1 and Zechariah 14.

 

[ScottA]

That above idea is only confusion...

How can you claim Jesus' coming was not back in history, nor in the future? Oh, I know. It's because of man's philosophy you picked up somewhere allegorizing the events in The Bible, turning literal prophetic events into some Edgar Allan Poe short story.

No, Lord Jesus' return is still future, and will be a literal bodily coming, His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth, as written in Acts 1 and Zechariah 14.

Yes, and it is God who imposed that confusion upon all language, until just before the end. Then, and only then were things to be made clear. Which things I now declare.

I did not claim that "Jesus' coming was not back in history, nor in the future." I simply explained what He and Paul said of His return. Even so, even though the actual truth was not to come until just before the end, rejection was to remain even to the end.