Revelation 13:17-18 (666)

[CTK]

You did not address the beast that John saw rise out of the sea, which the mortally wounded but healed head will rule for 42 months.

Instead, you expressed your thoughts pertaining only to Daniel 7 and as being past history.

Dough, I am done ! You don’t play nice in the sandbox!

 

[Douggg]

Dough, I am done ! You don’t play nice in the sandbox!

You ask me to comment on what you wrote - and I did. I did not make any personal insults.

 

[CTK]

You ask me to comment on what you wrote - and I did. I did not make any personal insults.

Sorry Dougg, I think it is better if we move on from each other. No disrespect!

 

[ewq1938]

Arabic phrase, Bi-smi llāh; بِسْمِ ٱللَّٰهِ, "In the name of Allah" along with crossed swords (a symbol for the Muslim Brotherhood
Resembles the koine Greek number 666.

No, it doesn't. You are posting a known fake. This is the real one:

 

[Douggg]

Sorry Dougg, I think it is better if we move on from each other. No disrespect!

I guess you need to time to figure out how to fit the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 into your historic scenario about the papacy.

The beast in Revelation 13:5 in the vision John had was given power to continue 42 months. How does that apply to the papacy ?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

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The 42 months are on my chart below of the soon to come 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 (and Ezekiel 39:9).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No, it doesn't. You are posting a known fake. This is the real one:

View attachment 54447

We do not know what a new symbol for Islamic terrorists ( ISIS) may look like, there are many already, black flags, headbands worn ...? The Muslim Brotherhood symbol is two swords crossing , added to the Allah symbol below (not Bismallah). If it was worn on a sleeve it who appear inverted as this symbol is.. So we'll see. This new coming Caliphate may develop in Syria by this leader who just outside Assad. He was formerlybwith AL Qaeda.

 

[Douggg]

We do not know what a new symbol for Islamic terrorists ( ISIS) may look like, there are many already, black flags, headbands worn ...? The Muslim Brotherhood symbol is two swords crossing , added to the Allah symbol below (not Bismallah). If it was worn on a sleeve it who appear inverted as this symbol is.. So we'll see. This new coming Caliphate may develop in Syria by this leader who just outside Assad. He was formerlybwith AL Qaeda.


View attachment 54451

Ronald, the 666 is the number (not symbol) of a man's name.

Revelation 13:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry to disagree, but the 4th beast is indeed Rome - specifically, pagan Rome. And 7:11 does tell us he will be slain and his body is destroyed. I don't know who you could possibly think is the 4th beast if it is not pagan Rome. They certainly were in power at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy which spoke exclusively to the restoration of His people and Jerusalem from Babylon. They certainly were in power at the time of the cross. They certainly continued during their perscution of the Christians for almost 200 years, they certainly were in power at the time of Constantine when he changed the Sabbath, they certainly were in power when he also declared Christianity an acceptable religion throughout the kingdom, they certainly were in power up to the time they were defeated by both internal and external forces by / around the time of 476 AD, thet were no longer the dominate power after this but would be proceeded by papal Rome who, within 100 years or less, be given official power over the Christian church by Justianian and they would now start to amass power over both all religious and secular matters throughout the empire.... Further, these same 10 horns, who came out of pagan Rome would now be seen to be sitting atop the 4th beast - meaning, they had also come to power among / with the 4th beast of papal Rome. Please consider the above and return once more to chapter 7 and insert the names of these actors in their appropriate places and see if they do not match our historical records PERFECTLY.

The ten horns in Revelation 17 are not about historical Rome, nor the ten horns of Daniel 7.

The 4th kingdom of Daniel was destroyed and the 5th Kingdom took it's place, and the 5th kingdom was also destroyed at the Reformation. We have been in the dead 6th head/kingdom since the Reformation.

The 10 horns of Daniel 7 were ten Emperors called Ceasars who were all dead by the 2nd century AD.

The ten toes of Daniel 2 made up the ten seperate nations of the 5th kingdom from the 5th century to the 15th century. Daniel 2 had 5 Kingdoms and all were dead by the time the Reformation came along.

You both are wrong thinking the 4th kingdom was extended past the 5th century. Rome ceased to exist after the 5th century and the RCC did not replace Rome, nor has anything to do with the book of Revelation period. The ten horns in Revelation 17 are future after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[CTK]

The ten horns in Revelation 17 are not about historical Rome, nor the ten horns of Daniel 7.

The 4th kingdom of Daniel was destroyed and the 5th Kingdom took it's place, and the 5th kingdom was also destroyed at the Reformation. We have been in the dead 6th head/kingdom since the Reformation.

The 10 horns of Daniel 7 were ten Emperors called Ceasars who were all dead by the 2nd century AD.

The ten toes of Daniel 2 made up the ten seperate nations of the 5th kingdom from the 5th century to the 15th century. Daniel 2 had 5 Kingdoms and all were dead by the time the Reformation came along.

You both are wrong thinking the 4th kingdom was extended past the 5th century. Rome ceased to exist after the 5th century and the RCC did not replace Rome, nor has anything to do with the book of Revelation period. The ten horns in Revelation 17 are future after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

How many kingdoms / beasts did God bring out of the sea in Daniel 2?

Do you think He meant to establish the “structure” for whatever is going to take place in His plan of salvation?

 

[Timtofly]

But what is the thing you are disagreeing with? Is it that the sea beast and the little horn are one and the same? Cause they are!

They are not any more or less the same entity, any more than Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon are the sole interpretation of the sea beast. The sea beast is made up of 6 earthly kingdoms over time, including the 5 from Daniel 2.

You will never get Revelation correct, because you deny Daniel 2 has 5 kingdoms, instead of merely 4.

Rome is one of the heads of the sea beast, as well as Babylon was a head. All five of the first heads of the sea beast have fallen, and we are in the 6th head that has a deadly wound, because there is not a single one world empire. The UN is not a single word government. The US is not a single world wide government. The papacy is not a single one world government, and never was. The Holy Roman Empire was the last of a kind. World empire rule was destroyed at the Reformation.

The head with a wound will not be healed until after the Second Coming.

 

[CTK]

They are not any more or less the same entity, any more than Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon are the sole interpretation of the sea beast. The sea beast is made up of 6 earthly kingdoms over time, including the 5 from Daniel 2.

You will never get Revelation correct, because you deny Daniel 2 has 5 kingdoms, instead of merely 4.

Rome is one of the heads of the sea beast, as well as Babylon was a head. All five of the first heads of the sea beast have fallen, and we are in the 6th head that has a deadly wound, because there is not a single one world empire. The UN is not a single word government. The US is not a single world wide government. The papacy is not a single one world government, and never was. The Holy Roman Empire was the last of a kind. World empire rule was destroyed at the Reformation.

The head with a wound will not be healed until after the Second Coming.

2:40, 7:3, 7:7, 7:17, 7:19, 7:23… God only called out 4 kingdoms / beasts from the sea - Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece, and Roman.

What is the head wound and who received it? Who is the one to help heal it? Is that the earth beast?

You must need more kingdoms or heads to meet your interpretations.

So, tell me, what is the most important interpretation you believe that requires a 5th or 6th or more kingdom or kings or heads?

You can add as man as you like but God called out 4 and only 4. If you add to His Word, your interpretations will suffer.

 

[Douggg]

What is the head wound and who received it? Who is the one to help heal it? Is that the earth beast?

The little horn person is the mortally wounded but healed head on the beast coming out of the sea in Revelation 13.

No, the earth beast does not have the power to bring the slain man of sin back to life. It will be God who will bring the little horn person back to life - in disdain for him - and as strong delusion to all who believed his lie about having achieved God-hood in the first place.

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn person is the mortally wounded but healed head on the beast coming out of the sea in Revelation 13.

A horn cannot also be a head. The little horn comes up on a head but is not a head himself.

 

[Douggg]

A horn cannot also be a head. The little horn comes up on a head but is not a head himself.

The little horn person of Daniel 7-8 is not any of the ten horns on the beast out of the sea, but one of the seven heads.

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn person of Daniel 7-8 us not any of the ten horns on the beast out of the sea, but one of the seven heads.

The little horn is a horn, not a head. You are changing the text into something it doesn't say.

 

[Douggg]

The little horn is a horn, not a head. You are changing the text into something it doesn't say.

The little horn is a horn in Daniel 7-8, but not in Revelation.

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn is a horn in Daniel 7-8, but not in Revelation.

There is no little horn in Rev nor does Rev have a little head. The closest match is the false prophet who has two little horns. He isn't a head of the first beast as the heads are mountains not people.

 

[Douggg]

There is no little horn in Rev nor does Rev have a little head. The closest match is the false prophet who has two little horns. He isn't a head of the first beast as the heads are mountains not people.

The way to determine who the little horn of Daniel 7-8 is in Revelation is to find his activities in Revelation.

Daniel 7: 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

In Revelation 13, the mortally wounded but healed head does those things. Since the little horn person is the mortally and healed head king of Revelation. Mountains are not mortally wounded, but healed. And mountains don't' speak, but people do.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

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Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So the little horn person as the beast-king will lead the kings of the earth in their attempt to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

Now, the little horn sits atop the 4th beast kingdom. It is symbolic language to reveal the transition of the little horn out of pagan Rome (its beginning) to the top where it will reign..

The little horn was a dead person, not a 5th beast kingdom.

The 5th kingdom was made up of the ten toes and lasted until the 15th century. There have been no beast kingdoms since the Reformation.

The 5th kingdom is dead as of the 15th century. The 6th kingdom has a mortal wound, thus dead, until brought back to life by Satan, after the Second Coming of King Jesus.

Jesus is the 7th Kingdom announced by the 7th Trumpet. Then Satan may be an 8th kingdom, as Satan is part of the dragon/sea beast/scarlet colored beast. Satan has been influential in all the first 6 kingdoms, thus of the 6, but an 8th rendition. Mystery Babylon is the 8th rendition and only lasts for 42 months. That is when the Temple in Jerusalem will be trampled for those same 42 months.

Jerusalem is the city in this relationship of human government playing the whore with all of them. Even the defunct 6th kingdom. Jerusalem was destroyed and burnt with fire in 70AD. But Israel is the nation playing the whore at the very end. An Israel that has only been restored since 1948.

 

[CTK]

The little horn was a dead person, not a 5th beast kingdom.

The 5th kingdom was made up of the ten toes and lasted until the 15th century. There have been no beast kingdoms since the Reformation.

The 5th kingdom is dead as of the 15th century. The 6th kingdom has a mortal wound, thus dead, until brought back to life by Satan, after the Second Coming of King Jesus.

Jesus is the 7th Kingdom announced by the 7th Trumpet. Then Satan may be an 8th kingdom, as Satan is part of the dragon/sea beast/scarlet colored beast. Satan has been influential in all the first 6 kingdoms, thus of the 6, but an 8th rendition. Mystery Babylon is the 8th rendition and only lasts for 42 months. That is when the Temple in Jerusalem will be trampled for those same 42 months.

Jerusalem is the city in this relationship of human government playing the whore with all of them. Even the defunct 6th kingdom. Jerusalem was destroyed and burnt with fire in 70AD. But Israel is the nation playing the whore at the very end. An Israel that has only been restored since 1948.

I don't understand why you would continue to claim any more than the kingdoms that God brought out of the sea..... You simply WANT to despite the many verses in Daniel that tells you there are only 4....

There really is no reasson to continue this... A 5th kingdom made up of the 10 toes? A 6th kingdom that has a mortal wound - what 6th kingdom? Jesus is the 7th kingdom? Mystery Babylon is the 8th kingdom?

It seems that you are conflating Daniel with Revelation and attempting to match the symbols, kingdoms, kings, whatever.... It doesn't work that way! Study Daniel and the 4 kingdoms .... almost 95 percent of Daniel ends at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy - that is 3.5 years after the cross. Then, the rest of it - chapter 11 discusses the post cross period to when the little horn takes power and has establised papal Rome (after pagan Rome is slain -7:11). Chapter 12 is a brief narrative on the end times - no details but Daniel is not meant to discuss the end times - that belongs entirely to Revelation.

There is much in Daniel that moves forward into Revelation with the most important character being the little horn (harlot) and the sea beast (papal Rome). But just as God uses different symbols in Daniel 7 and 8 that represent the same 4 kingdoms established in chapter2, He uses different symbols in Revelation that those found in Daniel. Same characters, different symbols at the end times. But it is clear you are trying to identify the # of kingdoms in Daniel through the verses in Revelation- they are different....

In Daniel - there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms established by God out of the sea.
In Daniel - these 4 kingdoms have 7 heads - Babylon - 1, Medes-Persia -2, Greece - 4 for a total of 7. These are used in Revelation to reflect the secular powers or nations or peoples that had been made subordiate to the conquering 4th beast kingdom in Daniel of pagan Rome. But, pagan Rome would be slain and its body destroyed (7:11) and within 50 years, the Christian church, headed by the bishops would succeed pagan Rome (the bishop of Rome would win out over the other bishops of the major Christian centers at the time who were fighting for them to be the head of the church). But Rome would win out and that bishop of Rome would become known as the pope / papacy or the little horn. And he would sit atop the 4th kingdom beast of papal Rome - and it is this beast who must continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands.

But you can not take the number of heads or kings or whatever in Revelation to DETERMINE the number of kingdoms in Daniel. God has established the number of kingdoms in Daniel and He is very clear on that. But Revelation has its own symbolism to unpack and deal with....Unless you are willing to study Daniel on its own and accept what Daniel is telling us about the kings, the kingdoms, and most importantly, the timing of the events in Daniel (which everybody has thrown incorrrectrly into the far future to try and match the same in Revelation (which they don't), you will never be able to understand either book correctly.

Daniel was written for the Jews - not the people of the end times. (certainly it is relevant to all of us, but it was not written SPECIFICALLY to us - but the Jews who were returning from Babylon and the coming of the Messiah.

Conversely, look at the language in Revelation where it SPECIFICALLY tells us who is is written to ---Revelation 1:3 - and others... it is written to the 7 churches - it is to the people, both Jew and Greek of the 7 churches who come after the cross and live for / during the next 2000 years before His retun. Daniel is done, now God is speaking to those to obey His Word and the Testimony of Jesus before His return.....

Understand and lock down the symbols in Daniel and understand the timing of the prophecies and His messages in Daniel. Then, use THEM TO UNDERSTAND REVELATION... Daniel HELPS interpret Revelation but Revelation cannot help you interpret Daniel. You have to understand the foundation of things before you can begin building a second story on a house...