Who or What is Babylon the Great? How do God’s people come to be in her?

[Brakelite]

Do you see the Catholic Church cosying up to false religion? Did anyone see that coming 40 years ago?

Oh yes, there was a lady who wrote of that 130 years ago...

A large class, even of those who look upon Romanism with no favor, apprehend little danger from her power and influence. Many urge that the intellectual and moral darkness prevailing during the Middle Ages favored the spread of her dogmas, superstitions, and oppression, and that the greater intelligence of modern times, the general diffusion of knowledge, and the increasing liberality in matters of religion, forbid a revival of intolerance and tyranny. The very thought that such a state of things will exist in this enlightened age is ridiculed. It is true that great light, intellectual, moral, and religious, is shining upon this generation. In the open pages of God's holy word, light from Heaven has been shed upon the world. But it should be remembered that the greater the light bestowed, the greater the darkness of those who pervert or reject it.
A prayerful study of the Bible would show Protestants the real character of the papacy, and would cause them to abhor and to shun it; but men are so wise in their own conceit that they feel no need of humbly seeking God that they may be led into the truth. Although priding themselves on their enlightenment, they are ignorant both of the Scriptures and of the power of God. They must have some means of quieting their consciences; and they seek that which is least spiritual and humiliating. What they desire is a method of forgetting God which shall pass as a method of remembering him. The papacy is well adapted to meet the wants of all these. It is prepared for two classes of mankind, embracing nearly the whole world,—those who would be saved by their merits, and those who would be saved in their sins. Here is the secret of its power.
A day of great intellectual darkness has been shown to be favorable to the success of popery. It will yet be demonstrated that a day of great intellectual light is equally favorable for its success. In past ages, when men were without God's word, and without the knowledge of the truth, their eyes were blindfolded, and thousands were ensnared, not seeing the net spread for their feet. In this generation there are many whose eyes become dazzled by the glare of human speculations, "science falsely so called;" they discern not the net, and walk into it as readily as if blindfolded. God designed that man's intellectual powers should be held as a gift from his Maker, and employed in the service of truth and righteousness; but when they are idolized, and laid upon the shrine of Satan to be employed in the service of a false religion, then intelligence can accomplish greater harm than ignorance.

 

[quietthinker]

Oh yes, there was a lady who wrote of that 130 years ago...

A large class, even of those who look upon Romanism with no favor, apprehend little danger from her power and influence. Many urge that the intellectual and moral darkness prevailing during the Middle Ages favored the spread of her dogmas, superstitions, and oppression, and that the greater intelligence of modern times, the general diffusion of knowledge, and the increasing liberality in matters of religion, forbid a revival of intolerance and tyranny. The very thought that such a state of things will exist in this enlightened age is ridiculed. It is true that great light, intellectual, moral, and religious, is shining upon this generation. In the open pages of God's holy word, light from Heaven has been shed upon the world. But it should be remembered that the greater the light bestowed, the greater the darkness of those who pervert or reject it.
A prayerful study of the Bible would show Protestants the real character of the papacy, and would cause them to abhor and to shun it; but men are so wise in their own conceit that they feel no need of humbly seeking God that they may be led into the truth. Although priding themselves on their enlightenment, they are ignorant both of the Scriptures and of the power of God. They must have some means of quieting their consciences; and they seek that which is least spiritual and humiliating. What they desire is a method of forgetting God which shall pass as a method of remembering him. The papacy is well adapted to meet the wants of all these. It is prepared for two classes of mankind, embracing nearly the whole world,—those who would be saved by their merits, and those who would be saved in their sins. Here is the secret of its power.
A day of great intellectual darkness has been shown to be favorable to the success of popery. It will yet be demonstrated that a day of great intellectual light is equally favorable for its success. In past ages, when men were without God's word, and without the knowledge of the truth, their eyes were blindfolded, and thousands were ensnared, not seeing the net spread for their feet. In this generation there are many whose eyes become dazzled by the glare of human speculations, "science falsely so called;" they discern not the net, and walk into it as readily as if blindfolded. God designed that man's intellectual powers should be held as a gift from his Maker, and employed in the service of truth and righteousness; but when they are idolized, and laid upon the shrine of Satan to be employed in the service of a false religion, then intelligence can accomplish greater harm than ignorance.

I wonder whether AJ made the effort to read this?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I wonder whether AJ made the effort to read this?

Yes I did, and I know of the lady....and agree largely with what she wrote there.....it was the time of “the great awakening” as the slaves of Christendom broke free of her shackles and did their own Bible study. JW’s and SDA’s have a similar history....as do some other “awakened” groups.

Yet, satan did what he always does....he divides and conquers using the same scripture but with different interpretations. How you tell a fake, in my experience, is to see who has self-proclaimed prophets
.....according to Paul, Jesus is God’s last prophet on earth, (Heb 1:1-4) so no one who claims to be a prophet after Jesus, actually is. All they can claim is to interpret the prophesies already written......nothing new was needed....only clarification of the Bible’s teachings in these last days. The path of the righteous ones was to get brighter as the day dawned and clearer understanding unfolded..... (Prov 4:18)

When Christ comes as judge, he will tell us who are the “wheat” and who are the “weeds”.....we cannot judge because of our imperfect state, but his judgment is final.....and it will be very interesting to see who might fit the description of the ones in Jesus’ parable of Matt 20:1-16...?
Will it not?

 

[quietthinker]

Yes I did, and I know of the lady....and agree largely with what she wrote there.....it was the time of “the great awakening” as the slaves of Christendom broke free of her shackles and did their own Bible study. JW’s and SDA’s have a similar history....as do some other “awakened” groups.

Yet, satan did what he always does....he divides and conquers using the same scripture but with different interpretations. How you tell a fake, in my experience, is to see who has self-proclaimed prophets
.....according to Paul, Jesus is God’s last prophet on earth, (Heb 1:1-4) so no one who claims to be a prophet after Jesus, actually is. All they can claim is to interpret the prophesies already written......nothing new was needed....only clarification of the Bible’s teachings in these last days. The path of the righteous ones was to get brighter as the day dawned and clearer understanding unfolded..... (Prov 4:18)

When Christ comes as judge, he will tell us who are the “wheat” and who are the “weeds”.....we cannot judge because of our imperfect state, but his judgment is final.....and it will be very interesting to see who might fit the description of the ones in Jesus’ parable of Matt 20:1-16...?
Will it not?

As I said in a previous post to you, our own words will testify either for us or against us.....but on a side note re prophets after Jesus, we have John of Revelation and Paul, and Stephan and no doubt many others unnamed and unmentioned.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

“Babylon the great” is also translated as “the greater Babylon…..so, what is the Babylon connection?
What do those in “Babylon the great“ all have in common? And why is it God’s instruction for his “people” to “get out of her” before he brings her to ruin? (Rev 18:4-5) Why are his “people” in Babylon the great in the first place?

Original Babylon was built by the first rebel after the flood.…Noah’s grandson, Nimrod, son of Cush, he was the builder of the cities of Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, all in the land of Shinar….said to be the cradle of civilization…and with good reason. (Gen 10:10)

It was likely under his direction that the building of the infamous Babel and its tower began. This conclusion is also in agreement with the traditional Jewish view.

Josephus wrote…..“[Nimrod] little by little transformed the state of affairs into a tyranny, holding that the only way to detach men from the fear of God was by making them continuously dependent upon his own power. He threatened to have his revenge on God if He wished to inundate the earth again; for he would build a tower higher than the water could reach and avenge the destruction of their forefathers. The people were eager to follow this advice of [Nimrod], deeming it slavery to submit to God; so they set out to build the tower . . . and it rose with a speed beyond all expectation.” (Jewish Antiquities, I, 114, 115 (iv, 2, 3))

So original Babylon is the birthplace of rebellion against God after he had cleansed the earth of wickedness the first time, by a flood…the tower had a purpose which was against God’s express command.

The evidence of Scripture points to the land of Shinar as the post-flood birthplace of all false religious concepts. Undoubtedly under the direction of Nimrod, who is described in the Bible as “a mighty hunter before(or in opposition to) Jehovah,” with the building of the city of Babel and its tower, likely a ziggurat to be used for false worship, an empire was begun. This building project was undertaken, not to bring honor to God, but for the self-glorification of the builders, who desired to make “a celebrated name” for themselves.

Also, it was in direct opposition to God’s stated purpose, which was for mankind to spread about in the earth. Jehovah frustrated the plans of these builders by confusing their language. No longer being able to understand one another, they gradually left off building the city and were scattered about in the earth as those who understood one another’s language, grouped together. (Gen 10:8-10; Gen 11:2-9)

However, Nimrod apparently remained at Babel and expanded his dominion, founding the first Babylonian Empire. (Gen 10:11-12)
“Babylon the great” is therefore a mirror image of original Babylon, only on a much larger scale….a global religious empire inspired by the devil came to be founded by all the various language groups who left the city to go to other places, taking their false religious ideas with them….and most of them also taking the legend of the flood with them as well.

The religious ideas found in all false religion, include the worship of multiple gods, some known by different names in different cultures, but are clearly the same false gods and goddesses…..Roman Catholicism managed to squeeze three gods into one head, thereby denying the practice of polytheism. There is also belief in life after death with an immortal part of humans leaving the body at death to go to either a hell of fiery torment….or to a heaven of bliss…..these are not opposing destinations for the dead in the Bible.

Mother goddess worship was also practiced and this is where the veneration of Mary originated….Mary came to have the mother goddess titles applied to her…”Mother of God”, “Queen of Heaven” and “Our Lady”……but most Catholic people have no idea why Mary features so strongly in their beliefs, when she hardly features at all in the Bible. Her role, though an important one was not given prominence because the son of God had to enter the world from a human mother….if it wasn’t Mary, it would have been someone equally favored by God to raise his son. Her circumstances at the time were suitable for God’s purpose. No doubt a wonderful mother, but not given any real prominence, nor did she remain a virgin.

If the call to “get out of Babylon the great” is obeyed, then those who have been shackled to Christendom’s false beliefs, perhaps all their lives, will be the ones who will see the truth about her origins and obey God’s command. They were born in Babylon and taught her beliefs, but God calls his “people“ out of that rabble….they see Babylon the great for what she is….a religious prostitute, in bed with the kings of the earth, currying their favor. (James 4:4)

If God’s command is not obeyed, then Babylon the great will go down, but she will take all those who cling to her, down into death with her. Like a sinking ship, she will drag any who are too close, down into the depths of oblivion….never to be seen again. (Rev 18:21-24)

There are two Babylons mentioned in REvelation.

1. Mystery Babylon the MOther of all harlots and abominations on teh earth. This is the false religious system of the last days that culminates in the worship of Satan and the Antichrist.

2. Babylon teh Great. This is an actual city in Iraq. the ancient babylon was rebuilt in a 1/6th scale by Saddam Hussein and many buildings were also built there including the US's largest embassy. christians will be there and told to flee, just as Christians were told to flee Jerusalem when they saw it encompassed by armies as prophesied in Luke and fulfilled in 66-70AD

 

[quietthinker]

There are two Babylons mentioned in REvelation.

1. Mystery Babylon the MOther of all harlots and abominations on teh earth. This is the false religious system of the last days that culminates in the worship of Satan and the Antichrist.

2. Babylon teh Great. This is an actual city in Iraq. the ancient babylon was rebuilt in a 1/6th scale by Saddam Hussein and many buildings were also built there including the US's largest embassy. christians will be there and told to flee, just as Christians were told to flee Jerusalem when they saw it encompassed by armies as prophesied in Luke and fulfilled in 66-70AD

Come on Ronald, point No. 2 is is a primitive as if I was expecting cats and dogs to fall from the sky when someone said 'it's raining cats and dogs'

 

[Aunty Jane]

As I said in a previous post to you, our own words will testify either for us or against us.....but on a side note re prophets after Jesus, we have John of Revelation and Paul, and Stephan and no doubt many others unnamed and unmentioned.

Where did these men get their prophesies? Read the Bible and see that John got his Revelation from Jesus, who got it from his Father.....Jesus gave it to an angel, who gave it to John.

Paul was taught directly by the resurrected Jesus Christ, so all that he taught came from Jesus himself.

Stephen was the first martyr put to death for his faith in Jesus. Paul, (who was then Saul of Tarsus) stood by and approved of his murder. So Stephen was also taught by Jesus through his apostles, before Paul became a Christian.

 

[face2face]

What Catholicism does in secret, Christianity (her daughters) does openly!

47:7 You said, ‘I will rule forever as permanent queen!’ You did not think about these things; you did not consider how it would turn out. 47:8 So now, listen to this, O one who lives so lavishly, who lives securely, who says to herself, ‘I am unique! No one can compare to me! I will never have to live as a widow; I will never lose my children.’ Is 47:7–8.

tn Or perhaps, “voluptuous one” (NAB); NAB “you sensual one”; NLT “You are a pleasure-crazy kingdom.”

Imagine a religion which can say this!

Heb “I [am], and besides me there is no other.”

Babylon's boast:

Heb “I will not live [as] a widow, and I will not know loss of children.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Come on Ronald, point No. 2 is is a primitive as if I was expecting cats and dogs to fall from the sky when someone said 'it's raining cats and dogs'

No the bible makes it very clear that Babylon the Great- is a city.

18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

If you believe that God did not mean what He clearly said here- make your case!

Four times god calls it a city! why do you say God did not mean a city?

Believers are called to come out of her. If it is the false religious system (Mystery Babylon the mother....) there will be none of Gods people in this religious system. all in it will have the mark.

Now the rebuilt city of Babylon can also be the headquarters for the whore of 17 But there is nothing in the passage to imply it is not a city when God calls it a city.

 

[quietthinker]

No the bible makes it very clear that Babylon the Great- is a city.

It also refers to your body as a tent. (2 Peter 1:13-14) Does that now mean if I go looking for you, I look for a tent? C'mon, we need to decode appropriately!
Didn't you say in another post you had all sorts of Bible qualifications? Goodness me, didn't they teach you about decoding? For instance, the parables and stories Jesus told, they need to be appropriately decoded.

Of course Babylon is a great city but it's not referring to bricks and mortar and geography any more than your body is made of canvas.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It also refers to your body as a tent. (2 Peter 1:13-14) Does that now mean if I go looking for you, I look for a tent? C'mon, we need to decode appropriately!
Didn't you say in another post you had all sorts of Bible qualifications? Goodness me, didn't they teach you about decoding? For instance, the parables and stories Jesus told, they need to be appropriately decoded.

Of course Babylon is a great city but it's not referring to bricks and mortar and geography any more than your body is made of canvas.

Well I also know that when the bible uses apocalyptic language or metaphors or parables, the bible also defines those non-literal usages.

But as for decoding- how do you know your decoded message is accurate compared to the many others who have "decoded" and differ from you?

Sowhat is the clues that the city of Babylon is a code? How did you go about decoding it?

And Babylon called a city refers to the buildings and the citizenry within the city. When I mention the town I live in, it is automatically understood that I am referring to either the land mass or the people living in it.

So simply put without needing a bosco decoder ring- When the Bible refers to Babylon as a city and then describes what happens, it refers to the people who trade, the merchandise and the land area that defines Babylon. It doesn't include NYC or Paris or Jerusalem.

And no the parables and symobic things in the bible need not decoding, but a search in Scripture to see what that symbol or parable refers to.

In christianity we have the parqable of the four soils and 100"decoded" meanings. This is a tragedy.

 

[quietthinker]

Well I also know that when the bible uses apocalyptic language or metaphors or parables, the bible also defines those non-literal usages.

But as for decoding- how do you know your decoded message is accurate compared to the many others who have "decoded" and differ from you?

Sowhat is the clues that the city of Babylon is a code? How did you go about decoding it?

And Babylon called a city refers to the buildings and the citizenry within the city. When I mention the town I live in, it is automatically understood that I am referring to either the land mass or the people living in it.

So simply put without needing a bosco decoder ring- When the Bible refers to Babylon as a city and then describes what happens, it refers to the people who trade, the merchandise and the land area that defines Babylon. It doesn't include NYC or Paris or Jerusalem.

And no the parables and symobic things in the bible need not decoding, but a search in Scripture to see what that symbol or parable refers to.

In christianity we have the parqable of the four soils and 100"decoded" meanings. This is a tragedy.

Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you....Jesus. No decoding needed?
Jesus blood cleanses from sin. No decoding needed?
Ok, I'll leave it with you!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you....Jesus. No decoding needed?
Jesus blood cleanses from sin. No decoding needed?
Ok, I'll leave it with you!

Well let us return to your original point of contention.

If you believe Rev. 18 must needs "decoding" then please decode it for us.

If Babylon is not a city as it says then what is it.

Who or what are the merchants?
who or what are the ships?
What do all those merchandise listed mean?
And what does it mean that merchants were made rich by this non- city Babylon?

if Babylon is not a city, then what is it? How do Gods people have to leave her?

See I recognize there are symbols and metaphors in Scripture. but I also realize that Scripture defines its own "codes" as you call them.

And I follow this rule of bible understanding:

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Society.

While REvelation is the most symbolic book, it also contains many literal evetns, actions and realities .

You hold to many many passages as literal as written, so why do you demand this passage not be taken literally, especially in light that the end times are mostly about Israel, Babylon was prophesied to play a major role in the end times, and trhat Babylon has been rebuilt and even now could become a major capitol?

 

[quietthinker]

Well let us return to your original point of contention.

If you believe Rev. 18 must needs "decoding" then please decode it for us.

If Babylon is not a city as it says then what is it.

Who or what are the merchants?
who or what are the ships?
What do all those merchandise listed mean?
And what does it mean that merchants were made rich by this non- city Babylon?

if Babylon is not a city, then what is it? How do Gods people have to leave her?

See I recognize there are symbols and metaphors in Scripture. but I also realize that Scripture defines its own "codes" as you call them.

And I follow this rule of bible understanding:

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Society.

While REvelation is the most symbolic book, it also contains many literal evetns, actions and realities .

You hold to many many passages as literal as written, so why do you demand this passage not be taken literally, especially in light that the end times are mostly about Israel, Babylon was prophesied to play a major role in the end times, and trhat Babylon has been rebuilt and even now could become a major capitol?

'The Battle' if we might name it that, is between the ideology of Satan and those under his persuasion and those who are aligned with God and his character.
'Babylon' is the metaphor used for the former and 'Jerusalem' for the later. It is an ideological battle spilling over into physical oppression of all people.

Your quote by David L. Cooper is correct. Understanding that when a mother says of her baby, 'I love you so much I could eat you up.' behooves us to know she is not talking about her next meal.

You asked, 'what is Babylon?' Babylon is the oppressive (to a greater or lesser extent through history) of a global system of misrepresenting God. It is in essence the ideology of Satan who endeavours to paint God with his own attributes. It makes God out to be one who requires/ demands his 'pound of flesh' (metaphor) before Grace is active. It is both subtle and not subtle. It wears a pious religious 'robe' and is 'bewitching'. It seduces the inhabitants of the whole World....apart from those who see who, as Revelation 14:12 puts it, 'This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus'

This global system of oppression (wearing a religious robe/ ideology) has always been in place but will ratchet up considerably as time draws to a close. It will be challenged as never before by God's people and his Spirit as depicted in the messages (code) of the three angels of Revelation 14.

These metaphors are used in both the Old and New Testament as/ because this battle spans the history of humanity.

The scripture has used symbols/ metaphors because of their inherent meaning. This meaning can be accessed by all who understand intent through history. It is a 'mystery' for those who don't. (particularly the 'religious')

Babylon means confusion and is a symbol for every evil thing as well as those aligned with Satan's objectives.
Jerusalem means City of Peace and represents God's dwelling (metaphor)....as well as his people in whom he dwells.

As you can see, the two ideologies are juxtaposed in these metaphors.

 

[quietthinker]

If Babylon is not a city as it says then what is it.

See post #54

 

[quietthinker]

1.. Who or what are the merchants?
2.. who or what are the ships?
3.. What do all those merchandise listed mean?
4.. And what does it mean that merchants were made rich by this non- city Babylon?

1 -2. Those who peddle Babylon's ideology (individuals and systems)
3. A literary device to tell you the ideology/ system permeates everything.
4. 'Religions' merchants (peddlers) get fat (metaphor) .....one example, look at the Vatican (that system) Fat on what? the bones of the people from whom it is extracted.

 

[Stumpmaster]

They, like the rest of us, will be sent back here (to Earth/hell) until they get it right

Reincarnation is a pagan belief.

 

[Aunty Jane]

There are two Babylons mentioned in REvelation.

Since “Babylon the great” is a global version of original Babylon, I see only one entity with that designation.
In her beliefs and practices…..I see the false religious evidence of her namesake. All the ideas promoted by Babylon the great originated in Nimrod’s city promoted by a man who was an opposer of the true God. So just as original Babylon was epitomized by the conduct of people in that city, so is “Babylon the great” epitomized by what people believe and practice to this day.
It doesn’t make it a literal city.

1. Mystery Babylon the MOther of all harlots and abominations on teh earth. This is the false religious system of the last days that culminates in the worship of Satan and the Antichrist.

This well describes the abhorrent state of false religion in the eyes of the God of truth.
BtG is a prostitute who gave birth to other prostitutes….this again goes back to original Babylon….with the confusing of the language, people were forced to leave off building the tower, and to seek those who spoke a language they could understand, and to leave that location to make a home elsewhere for themselves, taking all their false beliefs with them. This is why we see the same gods worshipped in different cultures under other names. This is why there are three identifying beliefs they all share in common but which were not found in the beliefs of God’s original nation.
1) a multiplicity of gods, often in triads.
2) Belief in an immortal soul and life immediately after death in a different realm.
3) Belief in a hell of eternal fiery torture for the wicked….

All false religion has these as their foundational beliefs…..including Christendom.

2. Babylon teh Great. This is an actual city in Iraq. the ancient babylon was rebuilt in a 1/6th scale by Saddam Hussein and many buildings were also built there including the US's largest embassy. christians will be there and told to flee, just as Christians were told to flee Jerusalem when they saw it encompassed by armies as prophesied in Luke and fulfilled in 66-70AD

“Babylon the great” has “a kingdom over the kings of the earth”….so she is not a geographical location. (Rev 17:18) She is influential on a global scale……Iraq was the location of original Babylon, and she was for a long time a mighty world power used by God to punish his own disobedient people and to take them into captivity…..”Babylon the great” has done the same (with God’s permission) and for the same reasons…..it exposes the genuine ones who hold to the faith despite what others are doing, from the weak ones who adopt all manner of things that offend the God of truth.

Babylon was surrounded by the waters of great rivers that kept her isolated and safe from invading armies……but these waters were also symbolic as Rev 17:15 states…..they represent the people who support BtG……but as a great city, God foretold that she would lie in ruins and never be rebuilt. She never was, despite attempts to do so.
The once mighty Babylon fell in one night with barely a weapon needed, because God had decreed it, even for telling the name of the conquerer.….”Cyrus”.

The waters of the great river that once protected Babylon were diverted by the Persians and the invading armies walked right into the city through unlocked gates (also prophesied) and took it by complete surprise. “Babylon the great” will experience a similar shocking fall because the waters now have been drying up for some time. Her demise will be a shock to most….and lamented by some……but we have to remove ourselves before that happens or we will go down with her. (Rev 18:4-5)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You asked, 'what is Babylon?' Babylon is the oppressive (to a greater or lesser extent through history) of a global system of misrepresenting God. It is in essence the ideology of Satan who endeavours to paint God with his own attributes. It makes God out to be one who requires/ demands his 'pound of flesh' (metaphor) before Grace is active. It is both subtle and not subtle. It wears a pious religious 'robe' and is 'bewitching'. It seduces the inhabitants of the whole World....apart from those who see who, as Revelation 14:12 puts it, 'This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus'

Now where is your biblical evidence to make this Babylon which is called a city 4 times to mean an oppressive system?

Since “Babylon the great” is a global version of original Babylon, I see only one entity with that designation.
In her beliefs and practices…..I see the false religious evidence of her namesake. All the ideas promoted by Babylon the great originated in Nimrod’s city promoted by a man who was an opposer of the true God. So just as original Babylon was epitomized by the conduct of people in that city, so is “Babylon the great” epitomized by what people believe and practice to this day.
It doesn’t make it a literal city.

Well as the religious system is called "Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of all harlots and abominations", and the city is called Babylon the Great why do you force the city to be a non city? History shows there has been two Babylons. A city and a religious system- each unique.

Babylon has been rebuilt!

Babylon is coming back to life, with its famed Ishtar Gate to be restored by this summer

A new World Monuments Fund project in conjunction with the US embassy in Baghdad aims to repair Iraqi cultural heritage as part of the Future of Babylon project

www.theartnewspaper.com

And Mystery Babylon has never died! It has been incorporated in many religious systems.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

'The Battle' if we might name it that, is between the ideology of Satan and those under his persuasion and those who are aligned with God and his character.
'Babylon' is the metaphor used for the former and 'Jerusalem' for the later. It is an ideological battle spilling over into physical oppression of all people.

And your biblical support for this is....?

You asked, 'what is Babylon?' Babylon is the oppressive (to a greater or lesser extent through history) of a global system of misrepresenting God. It is in essence the ideology of Satan who endeavours to paint God with his own attributes. It makes God out to be one who requires/ demands his 'pound of flesh' (metaphor) before Grace is active. It is both subtle and not subtle. It wears a pious religious 'robe' and is 'bewitching'. It seduces the inhabitants of the whole World....apart from those who see who, as Revelation 14:12 puts it, 'This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus'

Yes this is Mystery Babylon, th e mother of all harlots but not the city described later.

The scripture has used symbols/ metaphors because of their inherent meaning. This meaning can be accessed by all who understand intent through history. It is a 'mystery' for those who don't. (particularly the 'religious')

-AAAH! The standard not subtle ad-hominem used by all allegorizers!

Babylon means confusion and is a symbol for every evil thing as well as those aligned with Satan's objectives.
Jerusalem means City of Peace and represents God's dwelling (metaphor)....as well as his people in whom he dwells.

Ba-bel means confusion Babylon is an Akkadian Word which means gateway of God!

While Babylon does signify all false religions, it doesn't mean that it is a metaphor in the end times and not a religious system and a city.

1 -2. Those who peddle Babylon's ideology (individuals and systems)
3. A literary device to tell you the ideology/ system permeates everything.
4. 'Religions' merchants (peddlers) get fat (metaphor) .....one example, look at the Vatican (that system) Fat on what? the bones of the people from whom it is extracted.

And your biblical evidnce that these seculare activities of commerce mean a spiritual activity is.........?