Theosis vs Christlikeness

[ProDeo]

You're really in a mess there, Pro!

I love my messi.

 

[ProDeo]

This is, without a doubt, the saddest reply I've written in a long time.

F2F

You are good with drama.

 

[face2face]

You are good with drama.

Life and death, but you all good with Messi

 

[face2face]

Better to appreciate the quality of his true sonship – God’s power and his victory!

You have shown none of the above in your replies

F2F

 

[Lizbeth]

No one could kill the LORD.

“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
This command I have received from My Father.” - John 10:18

Amen, He laid down His life, in obedience to the Father. "It pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief, and made His soul an offering for sin..."

I was just making a point that Jesus died, at the point when He was forsaken (as it were) by God. The bible says He became sin for us, so I tend to believe Jesus experienced the death that sinners die, cut off from God in that He was a man, but was resurrected in that He was also God. He was forsaken, so we would not be. We may be struck down but not abandoned. Though we will feel as though we are at times when something in us is dying that needs to die....we follow the Lord Jesus along the same narrow path of the cross that He walked.....chastised as sons so that we may partake of His holiness. I don't think any child feels loved by their fathers when he is disciplining them, they feel the opposite, cut off and that their father has withdrawn his love, even though it is only temporary for the ultimate good of the child.

 

[Johann]

IDOLATRY reveals itself to be pathological. They cannot admit any verses that don’t support the trinity. Just do laps in what makes them feel good: the word is God, the father and I are one, the Jews said he was claiming to be God, let us make man in our Image, everything in Scripture ‘’points’ to the trinity,’ etc.

Nor of these are trinitarian statements None say Jesus is God. And no verse says it’s important to believe in the trinity. The acceptance criteria is impossibly low; anything suffices. Yet, their reject criteria is impossibly high, non-existent.

I’ve come to realize the Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book in the Bible. Their mysticism is such that they tell themselves it actually focuses on Jesus’ divinity.

All this pontificating works against you-the Triune Godhead is biblical. It's time you open the Scriptures and examine them.

J.

 

[Lizbeth]

wanna see a huge example that satan by means of that which is of anti christ has been doing as of late .
HIMS been real busy lying to christendom and merging them all as one with the false religoins under a fat lie .
HE sure has poisoned this christendom big time . with a drink he calls the love punch .
Hims been busy and so has his men too .
convincing christendom.
Wanna a huge example that very many now fall for .
For the dark one sayeth and calleth to all the wayward children and says
GOD is love , true , GOD desires none to perish , true
but then uses this to encapusulate them with a lie that implies BECAUSE GOD IS LOVE and DESIRES none to perish
NONE ARE GONNA PERISH . HIMS A LIAR friend .
You see the correct way to use that scripture , that truth is LIKE THIS
GOD IS LOVE , GOD DOES DESIRE NONE TO PERISH , ITS WHY HE SENT THE SON that all WHO DO BELEIVE IN HIM
would not PERISH . satan is such a liar and he has so many within christendom decieved
big time and has convinced them to find common ground interfaith , the lie of anti christ ,
to beleive all are fine NO matter what path or religoin they follow and beleive
so long as they jus have a big ol fat love fest and do some good . MAN is he a liar . very deceptive that one is .

Amen. The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life and that is only through faith in Christ. It's either mortality or immortality. I do not see eternal life for souls outside of Christ. Perish means perish.....it means death, the wages of sin. "Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (lake of fire) Why would Jesus have warned about something that was never going to happen to anyone?

I notice that scripture can seem "understated" or tactful in a way at times because it is speaking in spirit, so it often comes across quite gently so to speak. Jesus didn't run around in a panic grabbing people against their will and screaming in their faces that they were going to perish in agony in hell if they didn't believe in Him and trying to force them to accept Him. He spoke in spirit, and whoever had ears to hear would hear and accept, and the rest would not. For example, "God so loved the world that whosoever believes on Him will never perish..." ....there is some tact there and we need ears to hear and understand that this also means those who won't believe on Him will perish. In a way maybe He was really only speaking and preaching to those who would ultimately hear and receive His words. As Jesus said, His words were hid from many.

 

[Lizbeth]

THINK @face2face THINK

The Israelites were being bitten by venomous snakes suffering serious sickness and dying with NO CURE!!!

Therefore God had Moses make the brazen serpent on the 'pole' and whoever looked upon it were CURED!!!


SAME - Mankind was 'bitten/stung' by the king of venom, the Serpent/Satan and man can NEVER find a cure.

as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Isa 45:22 - “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

BELIEVE, f2f, BELIEVE every word that God has spoken = when you do you will be on the Path that leads to the LORD Jesus Christ

@Lizbeth

Amen! The snakes (Satan/serpent and his works, all our sins/iniquities) were laid on Jesus and nailed to the cross in His body and He dragged them down into hades/death/destruction with Him....triumphing over them. Thus was the prince of this world judged.

 

[Marvelloustime]

wanna see a huge example that satan by means of that which is of anti christ has been doing as of late .
HIMS been real busy lying to christendom and merging them all as one with the false religoins under a fat lie .
HE sure has poisoned this christendom big time . with a drink he calls the love punch .
Hims been busy and so has his men too .
convincing christendom.
Wanna a huge example that very many now fall for .
For the dark one sayeth and calleth to all the wayward children and says
GOD is love , true , GOD desires none to perish , true
but then uses this to encapusulate them with a lie that implies BECAUSE GOD IS LOVE and DESIRES none to perish
NONE ARE GONNA PERISH . HIMS A LIAR friend .
You see the correct way to use that scripture , that truth is LIKE THIS
GOD IS LOVE , GOD DOES DESIRE NONE TO PERISH , ITS WHY HE SENT THE SON that all WHO DO BELEIVE IN HIM
would not PERISH . satan is such a liar and he has so many within christendom decieved
big time and has convinced them to find common ground interfaith , the lie of anti christ ,
to beleive all are fine NO matter what path or religoin they follow and beleive
so long as they jus have a big ol fat love fest and do some good . MAN is he a liar . very deceptive that one is .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life and that is only through faith in Christ. It's either mortality or immortality. I do not see eternal life for souls outside of Christ. Perish means perish.....it means death, the wages of sin. "Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (lake of fire) Why would Jesus have warned about something that was never going to happen to anyone?

I notice that scripture can seem "understated" or tactful in a way at times because it is speaking in spirit, so it often comes across quite gently so to speak. Jesus didn't run around in a panic grabbing people against their will and screaming in their faces that they were going to perish in agony in hell if they didn't believe in Him and trying to force them to accept Him. He spoke in spirit, and whoever had ears to hear would hear and accept, and the rest would not. For example, "God so loved the world that whosoever believes on Him will never perish..." ....there is some tact there and we need ears to hear and understand that this also means those who won't believe on Him will perish. In a way maybe He was really only speaking and preaching to those who would ultimately hear and receive His words. As Jesus said, His words were hid from many.

 

[face2face]

Amen! The snakes (Satan/serpent and his works, all our sins/iniquities) were laid on Jesus and nailed to the cross in His body and He dragged them down into hades/death/destruction with Him....triumphing over them. Thus was the prince of this world judged.

....sin's power was removed in a prepared body.

so that through death he could destroy the one (sin personified) who holds the power of death (that is, the devil), Heb 2:14.

How was sin's power removed from Christ "through" death?

If you are struggling to understand what has the power of death look up Romans 6:23

Maybe the brazen serpent will have deeper meaning than a made up fallen angel!

F2F

 

[Lizbeth]

All this pontificating works against you-the Triune Godhead is biblical. It's time you open the Scriptures and examine them.

J.

Yes, some people need to get to know scriptures better but they would rather run after their denominations and teachers and their own mind. And those scriptures do say Christ is God manifest in the flesh, and that He Word made flesh, the Word is God, who created the world and everyone in it, and makes mention of the three being one..etc.

Just a little aside, but I have always wondered why the Lord (Father/Son/Spirit) is called the Godhead..........maybe it seems obvious but it just now came to me that it is because He is the Head of all gods/angels/sons of God. (And God in Christ being the Head of the church....."ye shall be like the angels.") Thank you Lord for that!

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life and that is only through faith in Christ. It's either mortality or immortality. I do not see eternal life for souls outside of Christ. Perish means perish.....it means death, the wages of sin. "Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (lake of fire) Why would Jesus have warned about something that was never going to happen to anyone?

I notice that scripture can seem "understated" or tactful in a way at times because it is speaking in spirit, so it often comes across quite gently so to speak. Jesus didn't run around in a panic grabbing people against their will and screaming in their faces that they were going to perish in agony in hell if they didn't believe in Him and trying to force them to accept Him. He spoke in spirit, and whoever had ears to hear would hear and accept, and the rest would not. For example, "God so loved the world that whosoever believes on Him will never perish..." ....there is some tact there and we need ears to hear and understand that this also means those who won't believe on Him will perish. In a way maybe He was really only speaking and preaching to those who would ultimately hear and receive His words. As Jesus said, His words were hid from many.

March onward in the trenches dear sister .

 

[face2face]

All this pontificating works against you-the Triune Godhead is biblical. It's time you open the Scriptures and examine them.

J.

You mean open your commentaries J!

I don't recall you ever asking a good question of the Word? Only copy and pasting GK text which you seem to find enjoyable.

How many times did Jesus die to sin?

What represented sin in him?

Why did Jesus need to be under deaths dominion?

What was the weakness Christ shares with you?

Why was he crucified in weakness?

Why was Jesus in agony everyday?

Why can't you ask the right questions of the Word and stop pretending your commentaries have all the answers?

F2F

 

[Lizbeth]

....sin's power was removed in a prepared body.

so that through death he could destroy the one (sin personified) who holds the power of death (that is, the devil), Heb 2:14.

How was sin's power removed from Christ "through" death?

If you are struggling to understand what has the power of death look up Romans 6:23

Maybe the brazen serpent will have deeper meaning than a made up fallen angel!

F2F

What do you not get about "the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.".........pre-figured in the scapegoat.........they were not His sins/iniquities because Jesus Himself didn't have any sins/iniquities of His own.......as scripture clearly states.

You know, I don't think Jesus had any fear of death.....that wasn't the reason He was sweating drops of blood in Gethsemane......I believe it was the unspeakable awfulness of the prospect of having to bear in His flesh all the horrible sins/iniquities and evil of this fallen world, when He Himself was so utterly pure and HOLY.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, some people need to get to know scriptures better but they would rather run after their denominations and teachers and their own mind. And those scriptures do say Christ is God manifest in the flesh, and that He Word made flesh, the Word is God, who created the world and everyone in it, and makes mention of the three being one..etc.

Just a little aside, but I have always wondered why the Lord (Father/Son/Spirit) is called the Godhead..........maybe it seems obvious but it just now came to me that it is because He is the Head of all gods/angels/sons of God. (And God in Christ being the Head of the church....."ye shall be like the angels.") Thank you Lord for that!

Lets stay refreshed in the scrips for ourselves sister . too many have fleeced the flocks and sadly the flocks have loved to have it so .
Lets keep it real simple . man has made things way too complex and confusing .
You hit the trenches sister and let all that has breath praise and thank the glorious LORD .

 

[Johann]

Yes, some people need to get to know scriptures better but they would rather run after their denominations and teachers and their own mind. And those scriptures do say Christ is God manifest in the flesh, and that He Word made flesh, the Word is God, who created the world and everyone in it, and makes mention of the three being one..etc.

Just a little aside, but I have always wondered why the Lord (Father/Son/Spirit) is called the Godhead..........maybe it seems obvious but it just now came to me that it is because He is the Head of all gods/angels/sons of God. (And God in Christ being the Head of the church....."ye shall be like the angels.") Thank you Lord for that!

Here is why I refer to the Godhead as triune @Lizbeth

Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Theos is used in the N.T. of the Father, as the revealed God (see Joh_1:1. Act_17:24, &c.)

2. It is used of the Son (Mat_1:23. Joh_1:1; Joh_20:28, &c. Rom_9:5. 2Pe_1:1. 1Jn_5:20). Cp. Col_2:9 and 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4.

3. It is used of the Holy Spirit (Act_5:3-4, compared with v . 4).

4. It is used generically, as in Joh_10:34. Act_12:22. 2Co_4:4. Php_3:19, &c.

5. It is used of false gods, as in Act_7:43, &c.; and is printed "god" as in the O.T.

ii. Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while

2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.

3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.

J.

 

[Johann]

You mean open your commentaries J!

I don't recall you ever asking a good question of the Word? Only copy and pasting GK text which you seem to find enjoyable.

How many times did Jesus die to sin?

What represented sin in him?

Why did Jesus need to be under deaths dominion?

What was the weakness Christ shares with you?

Why was he crucified in weakness?

Why was Jesus in agony everyday?

Why can't you ask the right questions of the Word and stop pretending your commentaries have all the answers?

F2F

You stand refuted-your denial that Jesus Christ is the active Agent in creation and that He is not God incarnate contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture. It is written that all things were created in Him, through Him, and for Him (Colossians 1:16), and that the Word, who was God, became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:1, 14).

Your assertions reveal a failure to grasp the plain meaning of the biblical text, rooted in the Greek and its grammar, which undeniably affirm the deity and creative role of Christ.

I have refuted your claims using Scripture alone-not commentaries. The onus is now on you to either accept or reject the straightforward teaching of God’s Word.

J.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen. The wages of sin is death. The gift of God is eternal life and that is only through faith in Christ. It's either mortality or immortality. I do not see eternal life for souls outside of Christ. Perish means perish.....it means death, the wages of sin. "Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (lake of fire) Why would Jesus have warned about something that was never going to happen to anyone?

I notice that scripture can seem "understated" or tactful in a way at times because it is speaking in spirit, so it often comes across quite gently so to speak. Jesus didn't run around in a panic grabbing people against their will and screaming in their faces that they were going to perish in agony in hell if they didn't believe in Him and trying to force them to accept Him. He spoke in spirit, and whoever had ears to hear would hear and accept, and the rest would not. For example, "God so loved the world that whosoever believes on Him will never perish..." ....there is some tact there and we need ears to hear and understand that this also means those who won't believe on Him will perish. In a way maybe He was really only speaking and preaching to those who would ultimately hear and receive His words. As Jesus said, His words were hid from many.

Very religious and an improper understanding....not knowing God and His ways.

I have not seen anyone here understand the difference between an inheritance...through death... and a resurrection power through the gift of an eternal kind of life right now for victory over sin! There is NO understanding here at all. People here need to hear the real gospel and start over.

1. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just for those who believe, but ESPECIALLY for those who believe. God decides whom He justifies. Many in other religions will be justified because of what they did and how they feared Him. Think the "good" Samaritan or the Publican. Peter says...of all nations those who fear Him and do righteousness are accepted by Him. Read the bible. Righteous is as righteous DOES. We will all be judged by what we have done with what we have been given.

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Tim, 4:10

Now, all hypocrites will deny the above verse. I also labour in the truth and suffer reproach at the hands of hypocrites...nothing has changed.


There are two levels to salvation...righteousness and holiness. Anything else is sheer confusion and possibly condemnation (as the outer man declares himself to be as righteous as Christ)..as sin takes hold in the form of a religious hypocritical certainty (like the Pharisees)

2. Jesus was raised again for the justification of the saints....who walk in His resurrection life above sin. THAT is the salvation spoken of in the NT that Paul attests to and is denied by modern religious speculators who can't read the bible with any understanding.

If Christ be not raised then no one could rise above sin....we would all still have to walk according to the flesh where sin imprisons the inner man.


What religious people have done is lower God's standard to a mere mortal righteousness based on moral improvement (calling it God's own righteousness) and then condemn the actual righteous in order to justify themselves. A double sin of forsaking the living God and His upward call (because they have no faith) ...and then condemning those whom God justifies for selfish reasons. All religious people persecute the saints, the truth and any true word. There is no longer any sound doctrine tolerated among those who have joined themselves to the false gospel and a false Christ. Paul warns against this other gospel...that has no power but to deceive...as we see here so much.

 

[Lizbeth]

Very religious and an improper understanding....not knowing God and His ways.

1. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just for those who believe, but ESPECIALLY for those who believe.

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Tim, 4:10

Now, all hypocrites will deny the above verse. I also labour in the truth and suffer reproach at the hands of hypocrites...nothing has changed.


There are two levels to salvation...righteousness and holiness. Anything else is sheer confusion and possibly condemnation (as the outer man declares himself to be as righteous as Christ)..as sin takes hold in the form of a religious hypocritical certainty (like the Pharisees)

2. Jesus was raised again for the justification of the saints....who walk in His resurrection life above sin. THAT is the salvation spoken of in the NT that Paul attests to and is denied by modern religious speculators who can't read the bible with any understanding.

If Christ be not raised then no one could rise above sin....we would all still have to walk according to the flesh where sin imprisons the inner man.


What religious people have done is lower God's standard to a mere mortal righteousness (calling it God's own righteousness) and then condemn the actual righteous in order to justify themselves. A double sin of forsaking the living God and His upward call (because they have no faith) ...and then condemning those whom God justifies for selfish reasons. All religious people persecute the saints, the truth and any true word. There is no longer any sound doctrine tolerated among those who have joined themselves to the false gospel and false Christ.

We need ears to hear that 1Tim 4:10 verse Epi...let the Holy Spirit give us light to see/hear.

Well, the bible says our new man has been created after the image of He who created him. That must mean perfect, spiritual/eternal, holy and righteous, unless He who created our new man falls short in any way, which of course He doesn't. I read just recently a wonderful truth where someone wrote this is what John was talking about where he says those who are born of God cannot sin....this is truthfully referring to our new man who has been born of God and cannot sin. And when we die physically our old man will be done away and we will go on to live eternally through the new man.

In this life our goal should be to overcome our old man in order to truly reckon him dead/crucified and under our feet, to be able to walk fully in our new man, which is to walk in the spirit. God may speak to different people in different ways, but for myself I am being shown glimpses in terms of "relinquishing" and surrendering up the old man and his life in this world.

If I'm understanding these things aright, there are numerous allegories and teachings in scripture for this. Thinking in terms of a second consecration/circumcision which is deeper or more full/complete than the first.