Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

[RLT63]

John isn't talking about the beginning of creation here. He is talking about the Beginning of Jesus' ministry.

You really have to make a stretch there. He goes on to say he created all things

 

[Marvelloustime]

Ein scwhester ist hier . Hit the trenches dear sister .

@amigo de christo
Oh. I been spotted! Haha.

 

[Wrangler]

Yesterday you sounded like you are against the apocrypha. Today you sound like you are for it!

Evidently, you did not understand what I wrote about authoritative references.

 

[amigo de christo]

You really have to make a stretch there. He goes on to say he created all things

yes he does ............dont he . it is in quite a few places
and let us remember , no angel , no prophet , no apostel , no man ever once declared
To be the I AM , the ALPHA and omega , the first and the last .
ONLY GOD did such a thing . I sure seem to remember JESUS saying this in the book of revelation .

 

[St. SteVen]

Evidently, you did not understand what I wrote about authoritative references.

Are you the authority on authoritative references? - LOL

[

 

[Wrangler]

He's not dissuading me, I'm having some fun with this one.

The fun you are having is being obtuse.

I don't think he has thought it through and it sounds like he read something or saw a video which said Enoch is no good, and I want to know if his opinion was dissuaded because of that article or video or because of what the book says? How did he draw this conclusion about Enoch?

Another post where you reveal a rejection of embracing authoritative references. Perhaps this will help. https://www.montana.edu/rmaher/ee417/Authoritative References.pdf

Suppose you are a witness on a jury trial. You say you heard a rumor that the defendant did something. This is true in that you heard this rumor. However, your testimony would be rejected as here say. However, it if is also true that the defendant told you directly that they committed the crime, that would qualify your testimony as definitive, sufficient on its own merits to convict.

So, the question is; why would one lead with the less substantial evidence as you did with Enoch?

 

[amigo de christo]

Are you the authority on authoritative references? - LOL

[

Reader and all beware for the father of lies cometh in his own name
and by his own authority He has come to feed this people that which is of anti christ .
And what i write next will have wrangler going to the phone lines to call up some donations .
INTERFAITH IS HIS GLUE by which he shall bind the decieved as one . Do beware its cry
do beware it at all costs .

 

[Wrangler]

Are you the authority on authoritative references? - LOL

I don't know about THE authority. LOL

 

[Wrangler]

And what i write next will have wrangler going to the phone lines to call up some donations .
INTERFAITH IS HIS GLUE

LOL You got that right! My paycheck is coming up soon but not soon enough to keep up with your "interfaith" references.

 

[Scott Downey]

Wise men still worship Him

People forget Christ came and emptied Himself to be born as a man.
But Christ was the one by whom all things were created, in Him all things consist and all things are for Him and through Him.
Of course as a man, Christ tells people to worship the one true God, and frequently points them to God. He is humble. In His earthly estate HE fully relied on God the Father.

But not to all people has Christ been revealed as God, they do not recognize Him, but when they see Him enthroned in glory, then they will understand..

 

[amigo de christo]

LOL You got that right! My paycheck is coming up soon but not soon enough to keep up with your "interfaith" references.

I just had a very lovely thought . Why not rather flee interfaith
and every time i remind of its dangers you can sound the trumpet with me against it .
You really need to go take a peek at what its main man , the pope , and the false religoins all had to say .
YA HAD SEEN ANTI CHRIST all over their message . And i have a feeling you sure would not want to be a partaker of that cup .

 

[Wrangler]

But Christ was the one by whom all things were created

No. The word is best translated "through." This means Jesus was the means or purpose by which the Creator created. Sons are created beings, not the creator.

 

[amigo de christo]

Wise men still worship Him

People forget Christ came and emptied Himself to be born as a man.
But Christ was the one by whom all things were created, in Him all things consist and all things are for Him and through Him.
Of course as a man, Christ tells people to worship the one true God, and frequently points them to God. He is humble. In His earthly estate HE fully relied on God the Father.

But not to all people has Christ been revealed as God, they do not recognize Him, but when they see Him enthroned in glory, then they will understand..

Remember what JESUS the CHRIST of GOD , was telling even the pharisees
as His own judgment .
What did they say to HIM . IF YE be the CHRIST tell us plainly .
Jesus PROVED HIMSELF CHRIST by HIS WORDS and HIS ACTIONS . but they could not see this .
OFten if we read the bible, while we might THINK JESUS never identifies Himself as GOD
i can assure us IF WE READ HIS OWN WORDS , THEY SHOW US WHO HE IS .
As well as HIS words in revelation . HIS OWN words and the TESTIMONY of the prophets
as well as the testimony of apostels , CLEARLY show us what many desire NOT TO SEE .
That indeed GOD IS THE WORD , HE IS ALPHA and OMEGA , FIRST and the LAST .
JESUS testified all right . But HIS own words are often abused and twisted by men unto their own destruction
as are the words the VERY SPIRIT had inspired unto the prophets of old
and unto even the apostels who left us letters in that bible . Just a friendly reminder to all .

 

[David in NJ]

John isn't talking about the beginning of creation here. He is talking about the Beginning of Jesus' ministry.

Good Morning,
Now serving fresh ground & brewed coffee.

Yes, when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

this is the Apostle John = same Apostle of the Gospel of John

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - The Word became flesh

1John1:1 - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life.
1 John1:2 - And this is the life that was revealed;

the Apostle John always places the Lord Jesus Christ as Eternal with the FATHER.

the ELOHIM = FATHER/WORD/HOLY SPIRIT = Creation has a Beginning and so did the God-on-earth Ministry of = Immanuel

 

[amigo de christo]

For this cause came i into the world to TESTIFY of THE TRUTH
Those who are of the TRUTH come to ME .
HIS words be truth as HE IS TRUTH as GOD IS TRUTH , AS THE SPIRIT IS TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF JESUS THE CHRIST and all
HE did say . TRUTH . what is truth asked pilate , sadly many within christendom seems to be
twisting and omitting TRUTH and do so unto their own destruction .
He who beleieves JESUS is the CHRIST is born of GOD
and HE who beleives JESUS would have BELEIVED HIS WORDS , THE TRUTH
for GOD has put upon their hearts CHARITY , HIS LOVE
which REJOICES IN THE TRUTH and not in inquity , not in a lie . The sheep feed from HIS PASTURE
and HIS PASTURE IS FILLED WITH HIS WORDS of pure and holy TRUTH by which the lambs do feed upon them .

 

[amigo de christo]

Good Morning,
Now serving fresh ground & brewed coffee.

Yes, when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

this is the Apostle John = same Apostle of the Gospel of John

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - The Word became flesh

1John1:1 - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life.
1 John1:2 - And this is the life that was revealed;

the Apostle John always places the Lord Jesus Christ as Eternal with the FATHER.

This Creation of the ELOHIM = FATHER/WORD/HOLY SPIRIT = has a Beginning and so did the Ministry of Immanuel on earth

Technically Speaking GOD never had a beginning , cause HE sure did not create himself . He always was and always has
been . Its just no man can relate to this time that has no beginning and no end .
Many also make the mistake of thinking GOD created JESUS the CHRIST . No sir and no mams
HIS WORD be HE what clearly occured was THE TIME for the WORD to become flesh came and was manifested
for a short time in OUR TIME to be declared the CHRIST of GOD so that all who do beleive in HIM shall not perish
but have everlasting life .

 

[Johann]

No. The word is best translated "through." This means Jesus was the means or purpose by which the Creator created. Sons are created beings, not the creator.

As usual-wrangling the plain Scripture.

John 1:3 (Textus Receptus)
"Πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν."
"All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."

The Greek phrase "δι' αὐτοῦ" (translated as "by Him" or "through Him") does not imply that Jesus is merely the means or purpose of creation.

Rather, the word "δι'" can mean "by" or "through," but it emphasizes the personal agency of the Logos (the Word, Jesus) in creation. It highlights that creation is not just an indirect act of Jesus; He is the active agent through whom everything came into being. The verse shows the idea that nothing was made without Him, pointing to His divine role in creation.

This indicates Jesus is not merely a "created being" in the sense of being part of creation, but that He is actively involved in creation itself. His identity is further clarified in verse 1, where the Word (Logos) is declared to be God: "and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

2. Colossians 1:16-17 (Textus Receptus)
"ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάντα, τὰ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα, εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι· τὰ πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτόν ἐκτίσθη."

"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him."

In Colossians 1:16, Paul reinforces that all things were created through Him (δι' αὐτοῦ), but also for Him (εἰς αὐτόν).

This not only stresses His role in creation but also affirms His pre-existence and eternal purpose in creating everything. Jesus is not part of creation; rather, all creation was made for Him and through Him.

The verse points to Jesus’ divine nature as the Creator, clearly distinguishing Him from created beings. The “sons” (or created beings) mentioned in the refutation are distinct from the Logos (Jesus), who is the Creator and sustainer of all things.

3. Theological Clarification: The Logos and Creation

The Logos in both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 is portrayed as actively involved in creation. The theological implication of this is that Jesus, as the eternal Logos (Word), is not a created being but is the Creator.

Your statement "Sons are created beings, not the Creator" reflects a misunderstanding of Jesus' divine nature as revealed in Scripture.

According to Christian orthodoxy, especially as articulated in the Nicene Creed, Jesus (the Logos) is fully divine, eternally begotten of the Father, and uncreated. As the Creator, Jesus transcends the created order and is not Himself part of it.

4. Refutation of the "Through" Translation Argument

While it is true that the preposition "δι'" can be translated as "through," this does not reduce the agency of the Logos in creation to a mere passive role.

In both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16, the context of creation implies active participation rather than mere instrumentality.

The Logos (Jesus) is presented as the agent through whom the Father created all things, not as a passive bystander or a created being who merely facilitates creation.

Additionally, the distinction between the Creator and the created is crucial. The Bible consistently presents the Logos (Jesus) as distinct from creation, not as part of it. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17 both reinforce the theological understanding that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, not a created being.


Your claim that "the word is best translated 'through'" is true in one sense, but it overlooks the active role of Jesus (the Logos) in creation. Both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 emphasize that Jesus, the Logos, is the Creator and not a created being. The Logos is both fully divine and the eternal agent of creation, not a "son" in the created sense.

Therefore, the idea that Jesus is merely the "means" or "purpose" of creation does not align with the scriptural teaching that He is the Creator Himself.

J.

 

[amigo de christo]

As usual-wrangling the plain Scripture.

John 1:3 (Textus Receptus)
"Πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν."
"All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made."

The Greek phrase "δι' αὐτοῦ" (translated as "by Him" or "through Him") does not imply that Jesus is merely the means or purpose of creation.

Rather, the word "δι'" can mean "by" or "through," but it emphasizes the personal agency of the Logos (the Word, Jesus) in creation. It highlights that creation is not just an indirect act of Jesus; He is the active agent through whom everything came into being. The verse shows the idea that nothing was made without Him, pointing to His divine role in creation.

This indicates Jesus is not merely a "created being" in the sense of being part of creation, but that He is actively involved in creation itself. His identity is further clarified in verse 1, where the Word (Logos) is declared to be God: "and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

2. Colossians 1:16-17 (Textus Receptus)
"ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάντα, τὰ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα, εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι· τὰ πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτόν ἐκτίσθη."

"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him."

In Colossians 1:16, Paul reinforces that all things were created through Him (δι' αὐτοῦ), but also for Him (εἰς αὐτόν).

This not only stresses His role in creation but also affirms His pre-existence and eternal purpose in creating everything. Jesus is not part of creation; rather, all creation was made for Him and through Him.

The verse points to Jesus’ divine nature as the Creator, clearly distinguishing Him from created beings. The “sons” (or created beings) mentioned in the refutation are distinct from the Logos (Jesus), who is the Creator and sustainer of all things.

3. Theological Clarification: The Logos and Creation

The Logos in both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 is portrayed as actively involved in creation. The theological implication of this is that Jesus, as the eternal Logos (Word), is not a created being but is the Creator.

Your statement "Sons are created beings, not the Creator" reflects a misunderstanding of Jesus' divine nature as revealed in Scripture.

According to Christian orthodoxy, especially as articulated in the Nicene Creed, Jesus (the Logos) is fully divine, eternally begotten of the Father, and uncreated. As the Creator, Jesus transcends the created order and is not Himself part of it.

4. Refutation of the "Through" Translation Argument

While it is true that the preposition "δι'" can be translated as "through," this does not reduce the agency of the Logos in creation to a mere passive role.

In both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16, the context of creation implies active participation rather than mere instrumentality.

The Logos (Jesus) is presented as the agent through whom the Father created all things, not as a passive bystander or a created being who merely facilitates creation.

Additionally, the distinction between the Creator and the created is crucial. The Bible consistently presents the Logos (Jesus) as distinct from creation, not as part of it. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17 both reinforce the theological understanding that Jesus is the uncreated Creator, not a created being.


Your claim that "the word is best translated 'through'" is true in one sense, but it overlooks the active role of Jesus (the Logos) in creation. Both John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 emphasize that Jesus, the Logos, is the Creator and not a created being. The Logos is both fully divine and the eternal agent of creation, not a "son" in the created sense.

Therefore, the idea that Jesus is merely the "means" or "purpose" of creation does not align with the scriptural teaching that He is the Creator Himself.

J.

He sure do wrangle dont he .
Let us take heed to a simple truth .
Notice HOW GOD CREATED and notice that all angels and all other things were created BY HIS WORD .
THE WORD itself was not created , SIMPLY GOD SPOKE and HIS OWN ESSENCE IN HIS OWN WORD comes forth of HIM
and creates the created . BUT NOT THE CREATOR . THE CREATOR does not create himself and then has himself
CREATE . HE SIMPLY CREATES the created by SPEAKING . hope that makes sense my friend .

 

[David in NJ]

Technically Speaking GOD never had a beginning , cause HE sure did not create himself . He always was and always has
been . Its just no man can relate to this time that has no beginning and no end .
Many also make the mistake of thinking GOD created JESUS the CHRIST . No sir and no mams
HIS WORD be HE what clearly occured was THE TIME for the WORD to become flesh came and was manifested
for a short time in OUR TIME to be declared the CHRIST of GOD so that all who do beleive in HIM shall not perish
but have everlasting life .

Lacking coffeee and i see what i have to change

 

[Scott Downey]

Remember what JESUS the CHRIST of GOD , was telling even the pharisees
as His own judgment .
What did they say to HIM . IF YE be the CHRIST tell us plainly .
Jesus PROVED HIMSELF CHRIST by HIS WORDS and HIS ACTIONS . but they could not see this .
OFten if we read the bible, while we might THINK JESUS never identifies Himself as GOD
i can assure us IF WE READ HIS OWN WORDS , THEY SHOW US WHO HE IS .
As well as HIS words in revelation . HIS OWN words and the TESTIMONY of the prophets
as well as the testimony of apostels , CLEARLY show us what many desire NOT TO SEE .
That indeed GOD IS THE WORD , HE IS ALPHA and OMEGA , FIRST and the LAST .
JESUS testified all right . But HIS own words are often abused and twisted by men unto their own destruction
as are the words the VERY SPIRIT had inspired unto the prophets of old
and unto even the apostels who left us letters in that bible . Just a friendly reminder to all .

That Spirit is specifically stated to be the Spirit of Christ. So the entire Old testament scriptures were all inspired by Christ Himself
Which fits as Christ is the Word of God.
So when God said Let there be Light, the Word was God and did that.
The Word was always God and God is obedient to His own self, the immutability of His counsel, HE cannot deny Himself

1 Peter 1
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to [a]us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.