Processed Foods

[JohnDB]

We can't seem to get away from them anymore.
From spaghetti sauce in a jar to even the spaghetti noodles....we cannot eat anymore without it being processed before we purchase it.

If you have a garden....you might get a few side dishes....or a salad.
But the choices are extremely limited anymore of not eating processed food or even "quick fix" type meals where you still have to do some additional prep to cook the meal.

From the bread that never goes moldy and stale to the ice cream that never changes color when melted and sitting around for a month (never changes color) our foods anymore are as synthetic as a rubber chicken. We can't get away from any of it.

I looked at one farm that was producing everything it could as naturally as possible.

White Oak Pastures Since 1866, Grassfed Beef and Pastured Poultry

Multi-generation family farm producing grass-fed beef, lamb, and goat and pasture-raised pork, poultry, and rabbit. We sell regeneratively raised meat online, along with tallow products, leather goods, and more, and we ship nationwide.

whiteoakpastures.com

The prices for the milk, meat, eggs, and etc are way beyond my reach. I couldn't afford any of it. It's not a lifestyle I can afford. What? One meal as a treat once in a while? That's messed up!

I can see why people are upset but can't afford to do anything about any of it. It's literally insanity. I can understand RFK's vendetta quite clearly....he has a point.

Even though I make a LOT of food by scratch. (Sausage, corned beef, bread, jam, cookies, and etc) that most other people don't on a regular basis....so we have become a LOT more sensitive to the chemical/artificial taste in most processed foods. It's getting difficult to get away from some of these things. Every day at least one meal will have a processed food in it.

Even I can't seem to get away from it all and I do more than most. I'm not a homesteading person. Too much work to have a variety of food. Growing peanuts to have peanut butter? Not me! I'm not interested in grinding my own flour for bread. I just want to make my own. Frankenstein bread that tastes like cotton candy is scary.

 

[Skovand]

Typically the processed foods that are causing harm are those that are heavily processed to isolate oils, proteins and so on from the food they are using and then blending in tons of preservatives and chemicals and sugars. Some canned foods are minimally processed and the health benefits heavily outweighs the negative ones like with many spices, flours and nut butters. Even then part of it is how much is used.

Good nutrition is not just what you don’t eat but also what you do eat. As of right now the healthiest known diet for our species is a high fiber whole foods plant and mushroom based diet that avoids completely, or mostly, animal products and byproducts food. Whole foods just means food in their natural form minimally processed. Like baking some apples and then placing them in a food processor to turn them into applesauce and adding cinnamon to versus buying applesauce made with pectin, apple flavor and lots of added cane sugar from the store.

The other parts of good nutrition is reducing pesticides entering your body and having a wide range of food sources.

For example I made these tacos. No meat or dairy.

The stuffing is red beets and radishes, shredded carrots and sweet potatoes, chopped broccoli and jalapeños then sweet onions and mushrooms. ( foraged wood blend with oysters, COW mushroom, blewits and some store bought white buttons ) and black beans. All it cooked on low for about 30 minutes in red wine. Then added salt free taco seasoning made of several species. Used no oil.
Very healthy. I try to add 5-6 different plants and mushrooms to each of my meals hitting at least 3 colors. Pigments in foods are often different forms of antioxidants.

 

[Hepzibah]

Very healthy? NO thanks! Full of oxalates.

 

[Skovand]

Very healthy? NO thanks! Full of oxalates.

Are you referring to my post?

If so can you show me the scientific literature claiming any of those foods are unhealthy?

What would be a healthier version of this meal according to you?

Just so you know, I went to school for clinical nutrition and if you are not a troll, I’m going to be calling you out. Assuming you answer. If you are talking to me, and you don’t answer my questions seriously then I will presume you are a troll and not respond in depth.

 

[Skovand]

Here are a few of the studies I’ll start with about why those don’t actually cause kidney stones but hydration, high salt and high animal products do.

Increased fluid intake and adequate dietary modification may be enough for the successful treatment of uric acid stone - PubMed

Uric acid stones are the most readily dissolvable of all types of urinary stones. The present paper describes two patients with uric acid stones in kidney and ureter, whom we have treated successfully only by a combination of increased fluid intake and adequate dietary modification.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Animal protein and the risk of kidney stones: a comparative metabolic study of animal protein sources - PubMed

Consuming animal protein is associated with increased serum and urine uric acid in healthy individuals. The higher purine content of fish compared to beef or chicken is reflected in higher 24-hour urinary uric acid. However, as reflected in the saturation index, the stone forming propensity is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Optimum nutrition for kidney stone disease - PubMed

We summarize the data regarding the associations of individual dietary components with kidney stones and the effects on 24-hour urinary profiles. The therapeutic recommendations for stone prevention that result from these studies are applied where possible to stones of specific composition...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effect of a vegetarian and different omnivorous diets on urinary risk factors for uric acid stone formation - PubMed

The results indicate that the intake of a balanced vegetarian diet with a moderate animal protein and purine content, an adequate fluid intake and a high alkali-load with fruits and vegetables results in the lowest risk of uric acid crystallization compared to the omnivorous diets.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Development of a rapid food screener to assess the potential renal acid load of diet in renal stone formers (LAKE score) - PubMed

LAKE score can be an useful and simple tool in order to evaluate the dietary PRAL and to suggest modifications to achieve its reduction for the prevention of calcium nephrolithiasis and other diseases.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Recurrent hypercalciuric nephrolithiasis--does diet help? - PubMed

Recurrent hypercalciuric nephrolithiasis--does diet help?

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Comparison of two diets for the prevention of recurrent stones in idiopathic hypercalciuria - PubMed

In men with recurrent calcium oxalate stones and hypercalciuria, restricted intake of animal protein and salt, combined with a normal calcium intake, provides greater protection than the traditional low-calcium diet.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Uric acid stones and hyperuricosuria - PubMed

Recent work has highlighted the strong relationships among obesity, diabetes, and the metabolic syndrome as causes of low urinary pH. Low urinary pH in turn is the major urinary risk factor for uric acid stones. Unlike calcium stones, uric acid stones can be dissolved and easily prevented with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Acid-base metabolism: implications for kidney stones formation - PubMed

The physiology and pathophysiology of renal H+ ion excretion and urinary buffer systems are reviewed. The main focus is on the two major conditions related to acid-base metabolism that cause kidney stone formation, i.e., distal renal tubular acidosis (dRTA) and abnormally low urine pH with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is a commentary in an article by Dean Ornish that discusses meta analysis on this issue.
Seems vegans get less kidney stones than vegetarians. Vegetarians get less kidney stones than those who eat meat.

Ornish Lifestyle Medicine | Does Being a Vegetarian Cause Kidney Stones?

There are many benefits of a low animal protein diet. As a result, many people are becoming vegetarian to support their health. If oxalate and calcium levels in a food are balanced, they stay in the gut and do not reach the kidneys. Kidney stones are one of the more uncomfortable afflictions and...

www.ornish.com

Now perhaps you can also tell me the difference between a reductionist and a holistic approach to dietary sciences and explain how nutrient composition within whole foods affect oxalate metabolism from the gut to the kidneys?

 

[Behold]

If its white or has hydrogenated oil in it........dont eat it.

 

[Skovand]

If its white or has hydrogenated oil in it........dont eat it.

I’m assuming you are referring to things like rice and bread and not to parsnips, mushrooms and so on concerning pigmentation. Though often the darker the pigmentation the wider range of phytonutrients it has like various antioxidants.

 

[Hepzibah]

@Skovand I have been on every diet there is, due to mercury poisoning ruining my health in infancy, including raw vegan. I though I was eating healthy but developed the problems known to be caused by oxalates especially interstitial cystitis as most sufferers from this know. I know when I have taken too much as I get the tiny sharp crystals in the corner of my eyes before my bladder reacts.

Conventional medicine has failed hence the increasing numbers of chronically sick people so don't quote studies to me.

When I was in the vegan world the one thing I noticed was how sick the long timers looked. It helps for a while then after the body has detoxed deficiencies build up.

Up to you though. I have been around the dietary world for over 40 years.

 

[Behold]

I’m assuming you are referring to things like rice and bread and not to parsnips, mushrooms and so on concerning pigmentation. Though often the darker the pigmentation the wider range of phytonutrients it has like various antioxidants.

Mushrooms are not a processed food... so, in that context, eat all you like.

 

[Skovand]

So let’s begin with this. You have no scientific evidence to support your claims. I bet you don’t even know what is toxic levels of oxalates or what the levels are in beets, or really any food. You most likely don’t know absorption rates with various level of hydration. You don’t actually know what the science is and you open up with beliefs about “dont quote studies to me” meaning you ignore scientific literature.

Secondly you’re someone who is chronically ill, though presumably outside of your control and so you are an outlier, and not someone whose anecdotal experiences contains the same variables as the typical person.

Thirdly, you take your very limited, and probably very biased and uneducated anecdotal experiences on what you perceive in others and place that onto the general populations.

So I’m 35 years old. I became 95% vegetarian at 15. 100% vegetarian at 16 leaning heavily towards veganism. 100% vegan at 18 other than a few times I used honey which has been years and years. I was a vegan all 6 years of being in the army. I go to the gym regularly, bike around 30-50 miles a week, hike around 25-35 miles a week. I have no health issues. As a long term vegan, not merely someone playing around with fads, I’ve met many other long term vegans. Many who are professional athletes. Many who are scientists who spend 40+ hours a week in the field lugging around packs at 40-80lbs for dozens and dozens of miles. My anecdotal experiences are the exact opposite of yours and just happens to also align with what we see in the scientific literature.

Lastly, a single meal of traditional andnrtoucsl fruits, veggies and mushrooms won’t overload you with any nutrient. This meal itself is medium low in oxalate levels. Many meals are very low. So unless you have serious medical problems this meal won’t do anything noticeable for you in any negative way. Even most of those with an oxalate absorption issue will benefit safe with this meal.

Can’t help but noticed you did not answer any of the questions really.

 

[DuckieLady]

We can't seem to get away from them anymore.
From spaghetti sauce in a jar to even the spaghetti noodles....we cannot eat anymore without it being processed before we purchase it.

If you have a garden....you might get a few side dishes....or a salad.
But the choices are extremely limited anymore of not eating processed food or even "quick fix" type meals where you still have to do some additional prep to cook the meal.

From the bread that never goes moldy and stale to the ice cream that never changes color when melted and sitting around for a month (never changes color) our foods anymore are as synthetic as a rubber chicken. We can't get away from any of it.

I looked at one farm that was producing everything it could as naturally as possible.

White Oak Pastures Since 1866, Grassfed Beef and Pastured Poultry

Multi-generation family farm producing grass-fed beef, lamb, and goat and pasture-raised pork, poultry, and rabbit. We sell regeneratively raised meat online, along with tallow products, leather goods, and more, and we ship nationwide.

whiteoakpastures.com

The prices for the milk, meat, eggs, and etc are way beyond my reach. I couldn't afford any of it. It's not a lifestyle I can afford. What? One meal as a treat once in a while? That's messed up!

I can see why people are upset but can't afford to do anything about any of it. It's literally insanity. I can understand RFK's vendetta quite clearly....he has a point.

Even though I make a LOT of food by scratch. (Sausage, corned beef, bread, jam, cookies, and etc) that most other people don't on a regular basis....so we have become a LOT more sensitive to the chemical/artificial taste in most processed foods. It's getting difficult to get away from some of these things. Every day at least one meal will have a processed food in it.

Even I can't seem to get away from it all and I do more than most. I'm not a homesteading person. Too much work to have a variety of food. Growing peanuts to have peanut butter? Not me! I'm not interested in grinding my own flour for bread. I just want to make my own. Frankenstein bread that tastes like cotton candy is scary.

Am I the only one who likes RFK? I watched some of his talks and it lines up.

Because I've been busy, we've gone a little off the rails with processed food but we're an ingredient family for the most part.

I'd hate to say it, but if it's a financial issue then you're probably better off reducing meat consumption, if you can.

I have had to do that in the past and made lentil tacos, falafel, veggie sushi, black bean hamburgers, the best curries ever, mujadara, etc.

Don't get me wrong I love carne asade, but I'm also getting ready to order yellow lentils to make vegan eggs and grinding oats at home to make oat milk because my heart beats too fast when the eggs aren't baked and milk isn't as nice to me as it used to be. I'm in no way vegan but in the right ways I'll have to act like it.

There are a lot of different options out there.

And spelt is a pretty good flour. I used it to make carrot cake and pancakes and it was like a new world opened up.

 

[Hepzibah]

@Skovand Not interested in answering your questions really as I do not trust biased scientific studies not that they have done much good for most of the population as autoimmunity goes through the roof.

I have been on many forums with 'healthy' people as well as sick people over the years and see the original vegan gurus I followed as they look today, one is Chef AJ and they look ill.

You are very young yet so I would not take much notice of you till you got into your 60's. I have read many charts that vary a lot over oxalate levels and know the worst ones which I would not touch.

 

[Skovand]

@Skovand Not interested in answering your questions really as I do not trust biased scientific studies not that they have done much good for most of the population as autoimmunity goes through the roof.

I have been on many forums with 'healthy' people as well as sick people over the years and see the original vegan gurus I followed as they look today, one is Chef AJ and they look ill.

You are very young yet so I would not take much notice of you till you got into your 60's. I have read many charts that vary a lot over oxalate levels and know the worst ones which I would not touch.

So says you….. compared to millions of papers by tens of thousands of dieticians and biochemists and scientists who have looked at millions of people and generated meta analysis.

But since you don’t know what you’re talking about and are not interested in science or responding to counter arguments this will be my last response directly to you in this thread. Feel free to spread misinformation and propaganda with your constant goal post changing. Your arguments are the same as someone saying they don’t think biodiversity is decreasing because they see more deer than ever or that the global climate is not changing because it was really cold last winter. No, I’m not opening the door to further conversation just highlighting the pseudoscientific approach people like you have.

 

[JohnDB]

Am I the only one who likes RFK? I watched some of his talks and it lines up.

Because I've been busy, we've gone a little off the rails with processed food but we're an ingredient family for the most part.

I'd hate to say it, but if it's a financial issue then you're probably better off reducing meat consumption, if you can.

I have had to do that in the past and made lentil tacos, falafel, veggie sushi, black bean hamburgers, the best curries ever, mujadara, etc.

Don't get me wrong I love carne asade, but I'm also getting ready to order yellow lentils to make vegan eggs and grinding oats at home to make oat milk because my heart beats too fast when the eggs aren't baked and milk isn't as nice to me as it used to be. I'm in no way vegan but in the right ways I'll have to act like it.

There are a lot of different options out there.

And spelt is a pretty good flour. I used it to make carrot cake and pancakes and it was like a new world opened up.

Oh I can afford grocery store meat but I can't afford the White Oak Pastures meat and eggs. And it needs to be something regularly consumed instead of grocery store meats.

 

[DuckieLady]

Oh I can afford grocery store meat but I can't afford the White Oak Pastures meat and eggs. And it needs to be something regularly consumed instead of grocery store meats.

That makes two of us. Lol

That's a difficult problem, unless you have friends who are farmers or hunters.

 

[Debp]

Very healthy? NO thanks! Full of oxalates.

I heard from Dr. Berg (yes, YouTube) that senior citizens shouldn't eat uncooked spinach because of the oxalates which causes kidney stones.

I guess that's why the Bible says everything in moderation. Because most things seem to have some sort of bad effect.

 

[Hepzibah]

I heard from Dr. Berg (yes, YouTube) that senior citizens shouldn't eat uncooked spinach because of the oxalates which causes kidney stones.

I guess that's why the Bible says everything in moderation. Because most things seem to have some sort of bad effect.

Many unbiased studies show, and many sufferers are on a low oxalate diet due to various health problems and seeing improvements especially those with interstitial cystitis which is a terribly painful condition. Medics say that it only causes kidney stones but that is untrue.

oxalates - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I was reading about vitamin b6 deficiency making oxalate problems worse yesterday so took some last evening and slept all night which was unusual for me.

Yes moderation, and unfortunately, many so called healthy foods are high in oxalate so you can end up ruining your health instead which is very depressing. They say that healthy people can handle oxalates, but how many people are very healthy today, and especially elderly ones? I have found that the safest foods for me are meats and saturated fats which have their own problems

 

[Grailhunter]

When I was young I new a man that lived a “organic” lifestyle. His greenhouse was three times the size of his shack. He steamed his dirt! Grew everything in his greenhouse because he did not want what was in the air to contaminate his soil or plants. And was very particular about his seeds. Somewhere he was getting his organic flour. He raised chickens and fish.

It was a philosophy for him, if he did not raise it he did not eat it. He did not own a vehicle and he would not marry because the additional work was not worth it for him and he thought what he raised would not support a family or did not want to risk it. He had quite the sizable process going but still he did not think he produced enough to support a family.

I was young enough that I did not understand because it seemed to me he canned enough to have plenty. I don’t know what religious beliefs he had, if any. At the time it all seemed pretty strange to me. This was in the 70's.

Later on out of curiosity I studied the concept of organic. There was a time when the food supply had to be organic. Before electricity and refrigeration and canning, there was no real way of preserving food. And a lot of people were consuming food that was in various stages of rotting and people died from it.

Food was sold out in the open markets after bugs had crawled all over it in the heat. And the meat they bought was in some stage of rotting and they counted on cooking process to make rotting meat eatable. Organic?
At the time organic contributed to short lifespans. It was definitely not healthy.

The single largest improvement to the food supply to feed the world more safely was canning. Now a days people consider canned foods bad and falls into the dreaded “processed food” category.

Today to some degree eating organic food is more of a fade. Sure you can buy food labeled organic, but it is only a label because you really do not know how it was really raised or what all happened to the food you are buying. The labels are probably more organic than the foods. It comes down to being a social click or cliché because you really do not know, you just have your house stocked with food that is labeled organic. Today to really eat organic you would have be like the guy I knew with the greenhouse and raise all your food yourself and then you probably would not have the time to hold a job and most of your money would go to raising truly organic food. But this does not work for a worldwide food supply system.

So what are we to do? Drive an electric car…stay out of sun…reduce our carbon foot print…no alcohol….no tobacco products….don’t eat animal products…no processed foods…no canned foods…no carbonated drinks…no fast foods....probably no restaurant food….no GMO genetically modified organism…no preservatives…no gluttons…no food stabilizers….no fruits or vegetables that have had pesticides used on them…no sugars…no salts…and if you have any strength left you should exercise indoors.

To be honest I would rather shoot myself in the head.

Now most of us are not farmers or own our own livestock and most of these concerns regarding food have no proof of being harmful and fall in the category of the living with the fear of everything. And some things are not perfectly organic and not the best for you but to get them from production to shelves in the stores in a system that feeds the world…if they did not have some of these thing they would not be fit to eat. Organic but deadly.

I pretty much believe in the food pyramid and moderation because fear and unhappiness can be unhealthy to.

 

[Hepzibah]

When I was young I new a man that lived a “organic” lifestyle. His greenhouse was three times the size of his shack. He steamed his dirt! Grew everything in his greenhouse because he did not want what was in the air to contaminate his soil or plants. And was very particular about his seeds. Somewhere he was getting his organic flour. He raised chickens and fish.

It was a philosophy for him, if he did not raise it he did not eat it. He did not own a vehicle and he would not marry because the additional work was not worth it for him and he thought what he raised would not support a family or did not want to risk it. He had quite the sizable process going but still he did not think he produced enough to support a family.

I was young enough that I did not understand because it seemed to me he canned enough to have plenty. I don’t know what religious beliefs he had, if any. At the time it all seemed pretty strange to me.

Later on out of curiosity I studied the concept of organic. There was a time when the food supply had to be organic. Before electricity and refrigeration and canning, there was no real way of preserving food. And a lot of people were consuming food that was in various stages of rotting and people died from it.

Food was sold out in the open after bugs had crawled all over it. And the meat they bought was in some stage of rotting and they counted on cooking process to make rotting meat eatable. Organic?
At the time organic contributed to short lifespans. It was definitely not healthy.

The single largest improvement to the food supply to feed the world more safely was canning. Now a days people consider canned foods bad and falls into the dreaded “processed food” category.

Today to some degree eating organic food is more of a fade. Sure you can buy food labeled organic, but it is only a label because you really do not know how it was really raised of what all happened to the food you are buying. The labels are probably more organic than the foods. It comes down to being a social click or cliché because you really do not know, you just have your house stocked with food that is labeled organic. Today to really eat organic you would have be like the guy I knew with greenhouse and raise all your food yourself and then you probably would not have the time to hold a job and most of your money would go to raising truly organic food. But this does not work for a worldwide food supply system.

So what are we to do? Drive an electric car…stay out of sun…reduce our carbon foot print…no alcohol….no tobacco products….don’t eat animal products…no processed foods…no canned foods…no carbonated drinks…no fast foods....probably no restaurant food….no GMO genetically modified organism…no preservatives…no gluttons…no food stabilizers….no fruits or vegetables that have had pesticides used on them…no sugars…no salts…and if you have any strength left you should exercise indoors.

To be honest I would rather shoot myself in the head.

Now most of us are not farmers or own our on livestock and most of these concerns regarding food have no proof of being harmful and fall in the category of the living with the fear of everything. And some things are not perfectly organic and not the best for you but to get them from production to shelves on the stores in system to feed the world…if they were not there they would not be fit to eat.

I pretty much believe in the food pyramid and moderation because fear and unhappiness can be unhealthy to.

Things are not as bad in my country as in the USA, regarding organic food. I have read many times that the organic labels there, cannot be trusted, sadly. There are lists made every year, on the most polluted fruit and veg and the safest, so that helps. It does not have to be all organic.

Throwing ones hands up in the air and doing nothing is not wise.

The problems with canned food is the lead content from the containers, but I agree that a life obsessed with trying to stay safe is not worth it. But it does not have to be all or nothing. One always has to compromise and there are some things that really are worth doing depending on ones genetics and toxic state. Some people who have good genes and healthy foods in childhood, can get away with a lot.

For myself, many children died from ingesting the mercury filled medications that were later taken off the market, and I consider myself to have been saved by God. Later I had a massive exposure to pesticide from exterminators and from that incident nearly died again.

I soon found out that if I wanted to survive I had to be very careful not to overload my body with toxins so that some healing could take place, in order for me to have a much reduced quality of life, which I have done for 74 years. The Lord sustains me. Now that I have Lyme Disease, things are harder but I hope that things will improve. Eating mainly organic foods has saved my life so far. But I am not obsessed by it and it it comes to being unable to buy them one day - well it is up to the Lord how long I will last.

My meat comes from an independent farmer who loves his stock as though they were his children and raises them in pastures. I avoid factory farmed meat. Buying carefully, and cooking from scratch means that I can afford it and no I never eat out.

I have an indoor rebounder that I try to use every day.

 

[Debp]

Many unbiased studies show, and many sufferers are on a low oxalate diet due to various health problems and seeing improvements especially those with interstitial cystitis which is a terribly painful condition. Medics say that it only causes kidney stones but that is untrue.

oxalates - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I was reading about vitamin b6 deficiency making oxalate problems worse yesterday so took some last evening and slept all night which was unusual for me.

Yes moderation, and unfortunately, many so called healthy foods are high in oxalate so you can end up ruining your health instead which is very depressing. They say that healthy people can handle oxalates, but how many people are very healthy today, and especially elderly ones? I have found that the safest foods for me are meats and saturated fats which have their own problems

You might enjoy Dr. Berg's videos on YouTube.

I only started to watch him recently as my neighbor has low magnesium. So I looked up videos for her.

I eat fairly good so am not deficient.

Dr. Berg says magnesium helps someone to sleep well. But, of course, one doesn't want to get too much either as that could be bad for the kidneys.

Here's one of his videos for you to see what he is like.