How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

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St. SteVen

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Interesting point.
I think I was going to use the Creeds as a proof earlier.
But I backed away because they really didn't do that.
We should look at that.

I don't recall that the creed supporting the Trinity
in terms of accrediting deity to all three persons.
Here it is.
But should we make it a requirement for a Christian?
The first line supports Unitarianism.

The Nicene Creed​


We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.


And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.


And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

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GodsGrace

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Trinitarianism was heretical when Arianism was in power.
Arianism was NEVER in power.
It was a gnostic sect that ATTEMPTED to change Christianity
but, of course, it didn't succeed.

AND THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL.
Jesus kept His church safe from heresies.

Which still abound today...
and the church is still here today.
And Christianity is still Christianity...

Not some broken type of it.
 

GodsGrace

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Interesting point.
I think I was going to use the Creeds as a proof earlier.
But I backed away because they really didn't do that.
We should look at that.

I don't recall that the creed supporting the Trinity
in terms of accrediting deity to all three persons.

[
When Jesus was still living...arianism and gnostic beliefs were already beginning.
John said: IF THEY WERE OF US THEY WOULD NOT HAVE LEFT US.

He was referring to gnostics that had infiltrated true disciples and then left when they did not find a place within Christianity (of the time).
Look it up. I don't expect anyone here to believe me...no PhD after my name.

The ECFs believed Jesus to be God...you gave me a LIKE in my post linking some of their statements, so I won't repeat here....I would but it's late and I have to sign off.

They did have to figure everything out.
How could God come to earth?
Was He a second God, created somehow...
Was He the Father come to earth...
Did Jesus exist from the beginning....
Was He a lower God....

So many questions that they had to reconcile with scripture and the ECFs that were taught by the Apostles themselves.

Yes...it took many debates...it took many years. No internet.
We think of history as being black and white...a movie.
It was real life. Christians were being persecuted....killed for their beliefs.
Rome was still in power. It took many years to have even the first council outside of the one in Acts 15.

The trinity developed because God the Father was known.
Jesus was referred to as God and His miracles were believed to be true.
He claimed He could forgive sin.
He did what only God could do....and at a time when monotheism was the norm.

And what about the Holy Spirit?
The NT writers spoke of Him as if He were a person.
Jesus said to baptize in His name.
So was HE God too?
Matthew 28:19 Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Was He a lesser God?
Was He from God Father or from Jesus or from Father and Son?

We have it all before us today...
these ideas/concepts/teachings had to be worked out by minds much bigger than ours...

Even the big philosophers of today are still discussing this in an attempt to understand it more fully.
But I don't think we ever will.

I was looking for a specific discussion on the Trinity but can't find it....
came across this: (it's much more simple).


 

GodsGrace

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You must think that Christ either lied or is less reliable than the creeds when he said the Father is the only true God. John 17:1-3 .
ONE VERSE. LOL
The FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

This is because you don't know the Trinity.
 

Runningman

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Let's discuss "Trinitarianism as the outgrowth of the early Church’s effort to understand and explain its own experience of the risen Christ in philosophical terms." - @RedFan

Open discussion on the development of the Trinitarian doctrine.

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It seems to have started as a sectarian movement at some point. There were clearly those who believed that because Jesus had powers, it meant that he was God, because he did the things God can do, like resurrect people, heal them, and perform various other miracles. Normal people can't do that; therefore, they thought he was God even though others were doing the same miracles as Jesus. Of course, that doesn't make much sense—that a human is God. So, they built a bunch of supporting doctrines to explain it. It seems Trinitarianism likely caught on significantly and spread faster after the Council of Nicaea, when they decided it was the official theology in their religion.

Trinitarianism is mostly a philosophical belief system rather than a Scriptural one. I say that because the Trinity isn't explained or described in any plain language in the Bible. An example of it being philosophical would be "Son of God" equals God, when normally being someone else's son necessitates not being the same person. Therefore, the Son is a distinct person from God. To prove it's philosophical, the other people who are sons of God are not God, but rather someone else other than God. Yet, a different definition for "Son of God" is applied to Jesus than to, say, you or I.

There's also the matter of the philosophical belief that God is not a single person, but rather a status or compound being, despite the Bible repeatedly referring to God as a singular person. A lot of philosophy is involved to make Trinitarianism work. It requires indoctrination and Sunday school to learn it because it's not intuitive nor does it follow conventional logic.
 
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St. SteVen

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When Jesus was still living...arianism and gnostic beliefs were already beginning.
John said: IF THEY WERE OF US THEY WOULD NOT HAVE LEFT US.
When did John "say" that?
Not when Jesus was living.
And probably not in reference to Arianism and Gnosticism.

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St. SteVen

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Trinitarianism is mostly a philosophical belief system rather than a Scriptural one.
I think there is enough scripture to establish/support the belief.
Starting in John chapter one and even in the Genesis account.
"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness."

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Runningman

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I think there is enough scripture to establish/support the belief.
Starting in John chapter one and even in the Genesis account.
"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness."

[
I don't know. The elohim who are the "us" in Genesis could just as easily be seen as the congregation of elohim with God in Psalm 82:1. John chapter 1 is about as clear as mud for Trinitarianism. Since God is defined as a Trinity of three persons in Trinitarianism then John 1:1 reads like "the Word was with the Trinity" which would place the Word outside of the Trinity. To only make it make problematic for Trinitarianism, there is no mention of a pre-existent being named the Word in the Old Testament.
 
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