Book of Life / Predestination/Elect - My personal gleanings

[Truth7t7]

Hello @Truth7t7

Yes I believe revelation 20 has already happened; faithfully even if I don’t quite completely get it.

Your theology in denying a future eternal judgement will take place as seen below, this is "Way Outside" of what would be considered "Christian Orthodoxy" with the final judgment seen below being a foundational pillar of the Christian faith, and this judgement is presented several times in the Holy Bible

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Truth7t7,

This is not a novel idea. I truly think that everyone who passes away is subject to judgment. As I mentioned in my initial post, the events described in Revelation 21-22 are still ongoing. However, I do not think that Yeshua will return today, as I believe he has already come in the past, and the part of the Bible you shared with me has already occurred at the conclusion of that era. The majority of individuals do not succeed, Revelation 20.

 

[MatthewG]

The Book of Life, to me is the genealogy of the people of Israel. It was the conclusion of that age.

Exodus 32:31-33
Then Moses returned to the Lord, and said, “Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Daniel 12:1
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

Philippians 4:3
Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

These are just a few references to consider.

 

[MatthewG]

I see no reason to have hope that my name will be in the book of life. My only wish is to be with Yahavah at the end of my life. There seems to be no point in questioning whether my name is in that book. Why would there be? It doesn't make much sense to me. However, if you believe that your name is in that book, feel free to hope for it.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hello @Truth7t7,

This is not a novel idea. I truly think that everyone who passes away is subject to judgment. As I mentioned in my initial post, the events described in Revelation 21-22 are still ongoing. However, I do not think that Yeshua will return today, as I believe he has already come in the past, and the part of the Bible you shared with me has already occurred at the conclusion of that era. The majority of individuals do not succeed, Revelation 20.

You deny a future second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens and the future final judgment as seen in Revelation 20:11-15, you believe these have already taken place

You are in the realm of "Full Preterism" a teaching and belief outside Christian Orthodoxy IMHO

No need to discuss it further, I'm fully aware of your "Full Preterist" beliefs concerning the second coming and final judgment

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Truth7t7,

It's perfectly okay if you no longer wish to continue the conversation. There exists a range of "Full Pretristism." I don't subscribe to every belief that someone might hold, much like there is a range of opinions on the belief that the second coming of Christ is just around the corner. Regardless, I care for you and wish you the best. When you reflect on it, Jesus does respond quickly when we call on his name, seeking help from the Father in heaven during our times of need; it's his strength we rely on, not our own.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Bible does convey those teachings, but whether they apply to us is ultimately a personal decision.

I approach this from the perspective that everything has already been fulfilled (the ongoing narrative is found in Revelation 21-22). Therefore, some beliefs that others place their faith and hope in may not align with my own, as I share this with anyone reading. For instance, the doctrines of predestination and election seem to pertain to specific individuals who were part of the bride, whether Jew or Gentile, before Jesus gathered them in 70 AD. I believe those concepts no longer directly apply to us today.

To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists. Genealogy was significant in their lives, as seen in phrases like "begat this one to this he begat," and thus that constituted the book of life, with names being removed and added based on God's promises regarding those who were disobedient and those who were obedient. Within Israel, there were individuals who lived blamelessly before God, even though they had to perform rituals to have their sins forgiven at that time.

I believe that God chose to engage with certain individuals who sought Him, and they were predestined to be the bride, with Jesus coming to save them. This belief is rooted in the Bible, which speaks not only of the imminent return of Jesus but also of people in that era who were awaiting His return. It is not unreasonable to think that the bride and those who were predestined were enduring significant suffering during that period.

Right or wrong, you must personally decide for yourself, trusting Yahavah, and not me personally.

Well you have lots of opinions, but unfortunately they do not align with teh Word of God and how it applies to all church members.

The NT is still for people today. so isn't the bride, predestination and election.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, many people have a lot of opinions. @Ronald Nolette. Thank you for sharing. Can I ask you who gives anyone the authority to assume authority with the use of the Bible? You could say God, or you could just say the Bible does. The thought I have, is that true though? I don’t believe anyone has any authority when it comes to that book itself.

 

[MatthewG]

People who assume they have this so called authority tend to treat others as less than; because they have thoughts and ideas concerning the Bible itself. Is this wrong? No. It’s not wrong to study, and think, and figure out what the Bible is stating.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, many people have a lot of opinions. @Ronald Nolette. Thank you for sharing. Can I ask you who gives anyone the authority to assume authority with the use of the Bible? You could say God, or you could just say the Bible does. The thought I have, is that true though? I don’t believe anyone has any authority when it comes to that book itself.

The bible is its own authority.

It is not open for personal opinions.

2 Timothy 3:15-17

King James Version

​

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version

​

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


We all have held our opinions of what Scripture means, but hopefully as one grows in the faith, they cast aside their opinions and accept Scripture as written.

That requires learning and recognizing the writers understanding of words and recognizing there is symbols and parables in Scripture, but that Scripture itself defines all those.

We do not need any "special revelations" or "gifted seers" who claim to have special revelation from god to tell us what gods Word means.

If God did not mean what He said and said what He meant when He inspired the Scriptures- then did He really say anything at all?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Ronald Nolette,

That doesn’t solve any case of self asserted authority. Only God would be the true authority. He is the one whom judges the heart after all.

 

[MatthewG]

Quoting a passage to Timothy, is in essence to remind him of the scriptures they had at that time, which would be the Old Testament. Not the New Testament, which I believe was still being written.

 

[MatthewG]

Here is a ponderance,

Revelation 3:5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,


In the writings of Revelation, it's explained these things would soon take place. If that is the case, how could the book of life ever pertain to us? While I do consider the Bible to have some spiritual principles to us today, not all the promises are related to us today, but some are. Would this addressing of the book of life not pertain to those people in that day? If not, how do you come to that conclusion?

 

[quietthinker]

In Jesus, all humanity is in the Book of Life.
We don't get put into the book of life, we get taken out....and who takes us out? we do.

Just as we didn't opt for life here on this planet, we do however have a choice to opt out....either quickly or slowly.
All humanity is in Jesus; he opted us into eternal life freely (a gift) without any choice of our own (this is the Good News) we now can choose to either stay in or opt out, either quickly or slowly.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @quietthinker,

I don't think it applies to us anymore. However, you can see it that way you choose to do so. I believe that it's more like everyone has been reconciled unto God, and they either choose the tree of life, or to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Everything is restored like it was with Adam and eve. So while we may be saying the same thing; to me the book of life was something which was going to be gone through quickly as per the Revelation message had been sent to those 7 churches whom were warned of the things they were doing wrong, and right.

While our differences aside, we still look to the one whom takes care of us. The Father in heaven, whom sees us more important than even the birds in the sky.

Luke 12:24 Look at the ravens. They don’t plant or harvest or store food in barns, for God feeds them. And you are far more valuable to him than any birds!

I believe this message by the Lord Yeshua, states the love that Yahavah has for his creation. Speaking to them day in and day out, just as the spirit and bride call out.

Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.

I try my best to stay and stand from a biblical view of what has been made known to me. Not saying your view is wrong by any means; I just don't see how the book of life which was mentioned first in the Old Testament, could relate to us, unless you are providing some type of spiritual view of it which is totally reasonable; thank you for sharing.

Yahavah is calling by the spirit to people every day they live. Sometimes people go away from him for a little while and return, but he is still loving is creation every day by giving them the breathe of life. Whether or not we revial him for our pains and sufferings all turn in and up and upon ourselves and our heart in where we are in direction to his will, or his own by the fruits of love which are provided by his spirit, even the spirit of Christ in and through those whom are his in adoption.

Romans 8:15 So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.”

 

[GodsGrace]

The Bible does convey those teachings, but whether they apply to us is ultimately a personal decision.

I approach this from the perspective that everything has already been fulfilled (the ongoing narrative is found in Revelation 21-22). Therefore, some beliefs that others place their faith and hope in may not align with my own, as I share this with anyone reading. For instance, the doctrines of predestination and election seem to pertain to specific individuals who were part of the bride, whether Jew or Gentile, before Jesus gathered them in 70 AD. I believe those concepts no longer directly apply to us today.

To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists. Genealogy was significant in their lives, as seen in phrases like "begat this one to this he begat," and thus that constituted the book of life, with names being removed and added based on God's promises regarding those who were disobedient and those who were obedient. Within Israel, there were individuals who lived blamelessly before God, even though they had to perform rituals to have their sins forgiven at that time.

I'm not going to read all of your personal beliefs MatthewG.
You know what would be nice? If we DID NOT HAVE personal beliefs and we ALL believed what Jesus taught.
Yes. That would be nice.

I believe that God chose to engage with certain individuals who sought Him, and they were predestined to be the bride,

OK. Now the above is 100% correct but does not match with anything else you've stated.
So...
Let's get this ironed out.

You speak about predestination.
WHAT is predestined?

You state that FIRST we must seek God....correct.
THEN God engages with us.
THEN we are predestined to be His bride.

This is all good.
If you could stick to what you stated here,,,it would be really nice because otherwise you
sound kind of reformed, and you may not be reformed...so why SOUND reformed?

See what I mean?

with Jesus coming to save them. This belief is rooted in the Bible, which speaks not only of the imminent return of Jesus but also of people in that era who were awaiting His return. It is not unreasonable to think that the bride and those who were predestined were enduring significant suffering during that period.

Right or wrong, you must personally decide for yourself, trusting Yahavah, and not me personally.

 

[MatthewG]

Things are nice when we have them our own way, I know @GodsGrace.

 

[Jack]

The Bible does convey those teachings, but whether they apply to us is ultimately a personal decision.

I approach this from the perspective that everything has already been fulfilled (the ongoing narrative is found in Revelation 21-22). Therefore, some beliefs that others place their faith and hope in may not align with my own, as I share this with anyone reading. For instance, the doctrines of predestination and election seem to pertain to specific individuals who were part of the bride, whether Jew or Gentile, before Jesus gathered them in 70 AD. I believe those concepts no longer directly apply to us today.

To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists. Genealogy was significant in their lives, as seen in phrases like "begat this one to this he begat," and thus that constituted the book of life, with names being removed and added based on God's promises regarding those who were disobedient and those who were obedient. Within Israel, there were individuals who lived blamelessly before God, even though they had to perform rituals to have their sins forgiven at that time.

I believe that God chose to engage with certain individuals who sought Him, and they were predestined to be the bride, with Jesus coming to save them. This belief is rooted in the Bible, which speaks not only of the imminent return of Jesus but also of people in that era who were awaiting His return. It is not unreasonable to think that the bride and those who were predestined were enduring significant suffering during that period.

Right or wrong, you must personally decide for yourself, trusting Yahavah, and not me personally.

Can't find Yahavah in any English Bible translation. What is it?

 

[GodsGrace]

Things are nice when we have them our own way, I know @GodsGrace.

I don't think you understood my post.
I don't think we're supposed to have things our own way.

I think we're supposed to have things THE RIGHT WAY.
And when there's a conflict...we get it cleaned up.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't think you understood my post.
I don't think we're supposed to have things our own way.

I think we're supposed to have things THE RIGHT WAY.
And when there's a conflict...we get it cleaned up.

What’s the right way to you?