Book of Life / Predestination/Elect - My personal gleanings

[MatthewG]

The Bible does convey those teachings, but whether they apply to us is ultimately a personal decision.

I approach this from the perspective that everything has already been fulfilled (the ongoing narrative is found in Revelation 21-22). Therefore, some beliefs that others place their faith and hope in may not align with my own, as I share this with anyone reading. For instance, the doctrines of predestination and election seem to pertain to specific individuals who were part of the bride, whether Jew or Gentile, before Jesus gathered them in 70 AD. I believe those concepts no longer directly apply to us today.

To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists. Genealogy was significant in their lives, as seen in phrases like "begat this one to this he begat," and thus that constituted the book of life, with names being removed and added based on God's promises regarding those who were disobedient and those who were obedient. Within Israel, there were individuals who lived blamelessly before God, even though they had to perform rituals to have their sins forgiven at that time.

I believe that God chose to engage with certain individuals who sought Him, and they were predestined to be the bride, with Jesus coming to save them. This belief is rooted in the Bible, which speaks not only of the imminent return of Jesus but also of people in that era who were awaiting His return. It is not unreasonable to think that the bride and those who were predestined were enduring significant suffering during that period.

Right or wrong, you must personally decide for yourself, trusting Yahavah, and not me personally.

 

[MatthewG]

To me, no matter what one may believe concerning these doctrines themselves there is a bit of hardness of heart that comes with those whom assume and believe and think they are elect. It’s almost like Pharisees, who believed they were better than the lowly man, in the parable spoken of by Jesus. And then, when proclaiming such there is the though of people in the crowds that say; “Well I guess I don’t matter to God; he is predestined every one he has I guess that is it”; and while they may in theory know and even reason why it is that way. Yahavah loves all people and is calling to all; not just some; whether people choose to believe or not is totally up to them. It is sad to think that these types of doctrines have a profound dominance in the Christian culture even being taught in colleges; Sunday schools; etc…

 

[Behold]

To me, no matter what one may believe concerning these doctrines themselves there is a bit of hardness of heart that comes with those whom assume and believe and think they are elect.

Calvinism is a "pride club"..

Its a "look at me, Calvin says im the ELECT".. .."God chose me because im special".... Im so special, that God chose me before i was born".

"Too bad about you and your family "....

See that?
That is just one more way the Devil brings a person's pride to be used against them, so that they believe they are somehow better then the rest of the sinners.. which is why God "chose" them.

 

[Behold]

Here is how to understand "The Lamb's book of Life"..

A.) Everyone is in it, until you die not born again, and then your name is removed from it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Ritajanice,

What’s the significance in what you are posting? Please use your own words, of how it pertains to the topic at hand. Thank you.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Behold,

Thank you for expounding upon what you believe concerning these doctrines.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hello @Ritajanice,

What’s the significance in what you are posting? Please use your own words, of how it pertains to the topic at hand

Predestination/Elect​

You show me where it doesn’t pertain to the topic?

I am a Saint and one of the elect, how would I know that?

. Thank you.

Your personal opinion is just that.

I was chosen and predestined to become a child of God..Born Of His seed ,my spirit is in the The Holy Spirit it’s been birthed = by supernatural divine heart revelation.

Now you Mathew, answer In your own words what that all means?l

How did you choose God?

What does Born Again mean, ?

How can you seek him out when the words says we can’t?

Only the Born Again can seek God out because they know him in their spirit?

How do you know God @MatthewG ?..by whose witness?

 

[Behold]

Hello @Behold,

Thank you for expounding upon what you believe concerning these doctrines.

Being born again, is how you remain in the "book" after you die.

This is not "opinion".

This is why Jesus told us.....>"YOU must be born again".

Everyone who wants to go to heaven, has to have 2 BIRTH-days..

The one that put you on this earth, and the one Whereby the HOLY Spirit births you into Spiritual union with God as "born.............AGAIN".

 

[PGS11]

How does the fall of humanity fit in with predestination was it intended? The bible tells us Satan did it to prevent humanity from entering heaven destroying Gods original plan condemning us all. Its why Jesus came Jesus is how God has restored humanity to enter heaven again.It is what this faith is all about.But we have God picking and choosing when the default destination is already hell for everyone due to the fall.It comes back to Jesus is the only way the narrow door and the source of salvation for all humanity if they accept his mercy the great gift he offers to all of humanity not just to select souls.You are free to accept this gift of mercy or reject it according to the bible.The bible tells us this is a fallen world and we are all in a fallen state unworthy of heaven but in Christ we can find salvation.We hope in Jesus its all we can do faith is hope.There is no hope in predestination faith is not required it was already determined ahead of time there is nothing to have faith in you are saved or your not its out of your hands.It doesn't fit the faith why preach the Gospel it doesn't matter God has already decided..

​

 

[Behold]

The bible tells us Satan did it to prevent humanity from entering heaven destroying Gods original plan condemning us all.

​

Could you post those NT verses where the Bible actually says that Satan planned all this?

 

[PGS11]

Its called the fall of humanity its right there in genesis he tempted Eve condemning all of humanity or do you not believe it - how did you miss it?Its why Jesus came.

 

[Behold]

Its called the fall of humanity its right there in genesis he tempted Eve condemning all of humanity or do you not believe it - how did you miss it?Its why Jesus came.

Its unlikely that Satan would know any of this.. at that time.

He's the same one who entered JUDAS so that Judas would betray Jesus to the Religious Jews which would ultimately lead to Jesus's Crucifixion that is the Salvation of the World... one believer at a time.

So, if SATAN had known that.. and He did know that Jesus was God's Virgin Born Son......then He would not have chosen to pursue Salvation as Christ's Crucifixion, that is the eternal solution for what you say He caused in the Garden.. @PGS11

Why would the Devil cause the FALL of Man , and then choose to Enter Judas that started the arrest of Jesus that led to The Cross that corrects what He originally did with Adam, upon us all....

He didnt do that, and what He did to Adam, is not related to keeping Adam out of Heaven.
Its simply that Satan wants to destroy God's ultimate Creation......by turning them against God, as a SINNER....,. like Himself.

 

[PGS11]

Its in the bible its why Jesus came its why we need salvation how can you not know this?

I would like you to explain Christianity without the fall of humanity - you can't.

Explain - why did Jesus have to come to bring salvation.

Do you believe your in a fallen state?If your not then you don't need Jesus.

Just what exactly is Jesus saving you from if the fall of humanity didn't happen.

 

[Behold]

Its in the bible its why Jesus came its why we need salvation how can you not know this?

Its unlikely that Satan would know any of this.. at that time.

He's the same one who entered JUDAS so that Judas would betray Jesus to the Religious Jews which would ultimately lead to Jesus's Crucifixion that is the Salvation of the World... one believer at a time.

So, if SATAN had known that.. and He did know that Jesus was God's Virgin Born Son......then He would not have chosen to pursue Salvation as Christ's Crucifixion, that is the eternal solution for what you say He caused in the Garden.. @PGS11

Why would the Devil cause the FALL of Man , and then choose to Enter Judas that started the arrest of Jesus that led to The Cross that corrects what He originally did with Adam, upon us all....

He didnt do that, and what He did to Adam, is not related to keeping Adam out of Heaven.
Its simply that Satan wants to destroy God's ultimate Creation......by turning them against God, as a SINNER....,. like Himself.

 

[MatthewG]

Predestination/Elect​

You show me where it doesn’t pertain to the topic?

I am a Saint and one of the elect, how would I know that?

Your personal opinion is just that.

I was chosen and predestined to become a child of God..Born Of His seed ,my spirit is in the The Holy Spirit it’s been birthed = by supernatural divine heart revelation.

Now you Mathew, answer In your own words what that all means?l

How did you choose God?

What does Born Again mean, ?

How can you seek him out when the words says we can’t?

Only the Born Again can seek God out because they know him in their spirit?

How do you know God @MatthewG ?..by whose witness?

Hello,

I’m not going to argue with you @Ritajanice. There is simply not any reason to do so. You believe what you do; it’s subjective.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hello,

I’m not going to argue with you @Ritajanice. There is simply not any reason to do so. You believe what you do; it’s subjective.

I didn’t ask you to argue Mathew, I just asked you to explain what I was talking about.

No worries, I will leave you to it.

 

[PGS11]

The book of Jonah disproves predestination the people listened and the city was not destroyed.Making for a very unhappy Jonah who saw himself as a false prophet and disgraced because the city was not destroyed.He was angry at God for not destroying the city.God sends his prophets to get people to listen so things change of course no one ever does listen or only for a short time.Why would God try to change things through his prophets he shouldn't have to with predestination.

 

[Truth7t7]

To me, the book of life relates to the genealogy of Israel, which no longer exists.

Your claim has saved Christian believers over the past millenia not having their names in the book of life that no longer exists

Your claim has saved believers being cast into the Lake Of Fire because their names aren't found written in the book of Life at the final judgement, that you claim no longer exists "Scary"!

Revelation 20:15KJV
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Truth7t7

Yes I believe revelation 20 has already happened; faithfully even if I don’t quite completely get it.