Revelation 13:17-18 (666)

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Douggg

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who are they? You are merely cutting and pasting from Revelation. Who are these two?
Neither are the pope/papacy. Nor so-called pagan Rome, nor so-called papal Rome.

The kingdom is the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - the EU.

The beast-king is the little horn person in his Stage 5....

image4.jpg


The beast out of the earth is the false prophet Religious promoter of the beast-king.
 
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ewq1938

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Why do you say that? I have them both as a man - the sea beast is the papacy - the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 who is prophecised in Daniel to continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands.


The sea beast is not a man, and not the Papacy and is not the little horn in Daniel either. Rather, the little horn becomes PART of Dan's sea beast. This differs from Rev's sea beast where no little horn is part of it. It is the FP who has two little horns which is the NT representation of that older little horn figure but instead of be9ing part of the sea beast the FP is his own land beast.
 

ewq1938

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The beast out of the sea has a dual representation. kingdom and king.

This is not true for Rev, nor even for Daniel for the ten horned beast. In both it is an empire/kingdom. The king of it is represented by the next figure the passages introduce. In Daniel that would be the little horn, in Rev it is the false prophet who is described as having two little horns.
 

CTK

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Neither are the pope/papacy. Nor so-called pagan Rome, nor so-called papal Rome.

The kingdom is the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - the EU.

The beast-king is the little horn person in his Stage 5....

View attachment 54225


The beast out of the earth is the false prophet Religious promoter of the beast-k

The sea beast is not a man, and not the Papacy and is not the little horn in Daniel either. Rather, the little horn becomes PART of Dan's sea beast. This differs from Rev's sea beast where no little horn is part of it. It is the FP who has two little horns which is the NT representation of that older little horn figure but instead of be9ing part of the sea beast the FP is his own land beast.
that sounds like a bad basketball ream in the G league... as Biden would say, "Come on man..."
 

CTK

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Neither are the pope/papacy. Nor so-called pagan Rome, nor so-called papal Rome.

The kingdom is the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - the EU.

The beast-king is the little horn person in his Stage 5....

View attachment 54225


The beast out of the earth is the false prophet Religious promoter of the beast-king.
Dougg, you gott seek some help for this....exorcism or deworming or a strong laxative ....Come on man...
 

Douggg

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Dougg, you gott seek some help for this....exorcism or deworming or a strong laxative ....Come on man...
Because I disagree with your view that the pope/papacy is the little horn/Antichrist person ?
 

CTK

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Because I disagree with your view that the pope/papacy is the little horn/Antichrist person ?
No, because of that crazy chart of yours! You have a mix of Daniel in there and who knows what else.

This is what I mentioned the you many times, and as recently as this past week: there is no 7 year tribulation, there is no anti-Christ, the 2300 days belongs to the Messiah at His first coming, you won’t find the EU, Russia, China, Turkey, Islam, etc, in Daniel and you won’t find them in Revelation. This is not a secular lesson - the Scriptures are a set of books from God about God and how He has designed a plan of salvation to bring us back to the Garden! That is what this is all about. You habe not gone through Daniel by verse and attempted to interpret it through His eyes and His plan. You have also, based on your theories about Revelation, have not studied each verse. You have picked up some verses in Daniel that you ASSUME belong in the end times, either because you did not put enough effort in trying to unpack them, you assume they are not end time prophecies because you can’t figure them out, or, you have readily accepted someone else’s interpretations that also placed them in the future because they could not match them to any actors or events in our history books. But they are not supposed to !

And to add insult to injury, when the actors and events DO MATCH UP PERFECTLY TO OUR HISTORY BOOKS, THEN, you ignore it. Perfect example is a few days ago I matched up 9:26-27 to the events that Jesus LITERALLY had gone through during the last week of the prophecy- you completely dismissed it - never given it a second thought and moved on right back to your crazy pictorials that you are so proud of. You never ask other why they interpret things the way they do, you simply tell them they are wrong and copy your pictorials again … but you cannot discuss even your own interpretations- you have just cherry picked some parts of Daniel and Revelation and constructed a story to connect them. The verses in Daniel that you have thrown into the end times are critical and necessary for the other verses in Daniel to connect with and reveal God’s plan - to restore the Jews back to Jerusalem and He also incorporates His first coming into that plan - and that would specifically be the 70 weeks of years prophecy when He arrives on the first day of the 70th week. Verses 9:24-27 speak of that last week - the ministry and crucifixion of our Messiah!


Have a good evening.
 

ewq1938

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there is no anti-Christ

Of course there is. There isn't just the Ac but MANY antichrists! Guess what? The last one is the one we and John call "antichrist" that shall come, future tense and singular.

antichrist denial is what helps make the antichrist so successful at deceiving the church. So much so that a falling away happens.
 

CTK

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Of course there is. There isn't just the Ac but MANY antichrists! Guess what? The last one is the one we and John call "antichrist" that shall come, future tense and singular.

antichrist denial is what helps make the antichrist so successful at deceiving the church. So much so that a falling away happens.
No way !!! Yes, there were, and are thousands if not millions, if not billions of people who could easily be labeled as an “anti-Christ” individual. I would certainly say that most of my life I fit that description better than most. But that is a term that means anyone who goes against the Word of God and does not obey Him and rejects the Testimony of Jesus.

I believe there are only 4 times in the NT where you will find that term and none of them are in Revelation. I believe they are all found in 1 or 2 Peter and they ONLY speak of those that do not follow the teachings of Jesus- ABSOLUTELY NO ANTI-Christ figure will come upon the earth. That was entirely designed and promoted by the Jesuit priest named Ribera in the 16th century as a counter measure to remove the label of the little horn from the papacy. He was comment the papacy to come up with a counter interpretation and he successfully carved up verses 9:26-27 of Daniel and threw them into the far future and declared the “he” in 9;27a was not Jesus but this mythical anti- Christ figure that would come in the future… thus, if this AC figure is coming in the future then the papacy cannot be the little horn of Daniel.

All you have to do is to go back to 9:26-27 and match those verses up to the literal / actual events that took place in the last week of the prophecy (actually, at exactly 3.5 years into the last week). Ask yourself, is God writing about His Messiah and everything that would take place during His 3.5 year ministry… of course He is. What is more important? That was and is the most unbelievable time / period the world will have ever seen.
 

CTK

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Of course there is. There isn't just the Ac but MANY antichrists! Guess what? The last one is the one we and John call "antichrist" that shall come, future tense and singular.

antichrist denial is what helps make the antichrist so successful at deceiving the church. So much so that a falling away happens.
Oh, I forgot… the papacy is absolutely the little horn and he is also the sea beast. The red dragon is of course Satan, and the earth beast is the one who is specifically found to have one purpose- to support and promote the sea beast. He has been very active for over 400 years on this earth.

But if you, like hundreds of millions of people are looking and waiting for these two boogeyman to surface, you are greatly mistaken.. The little horn has been active for over 1500 years- go back into Daniel 7 and identify the 10 or 11 characteristics that have been given to us to identify him. The ONLY PERSON TO MEET EVERYONE OF THEM IS THE PAPACY. Match them to him on your own.
 

ewq1938

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Oh, I forgot… the papacy is absolutely the little horn and he is also the sea beast. The red dragon is of course Satan, and the earth beast is the one who is specifically found to have one purpose- to support and promote the sea beast. He has been very active for over 400 years on this earth.

The bible gives him 42 months, not hundreds of years.
 

CTK

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The bible gives him 42 months, not hundreds of years.
No, the 42 months represents the 1260 days or 3.5 years when the time of the Gentiles is over and God removes the blindness from the eyes of His people and they recognize the one they had pierced. Then, the 144,000 go out into the world for 3.5 years preaching the Good News just as Paul did and this creates the war between those who have and continue to accept the false teachings of the little horn (papacy) or the true word of God through the mouth of the 144,000. At that time, people will hear such a difference between the teachings of the papacy (Catholic church) and the Jews who will now teach His Word as Paul would have— which is completely different than today.
 

CTK

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The bible gives him 42 months, not hundreds of years.
If you meant the papacy or little horn is given only 42 months, that is not true… he must continue until the end when he is destroyed without human hands.
 

grafted branch

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Okay, I am now at verse 13:17-18 which introduces us to the number 666.

I don’t expect this is going to be an easy interpretation… as many have been, but I don’t think I have seen or read any that made any sense … but I have never studied this before …

So, anyone truly interpret these two verses?
Here’s my two cents on this, I think no matter what we do with the number 666 the buying and selling has to be looked at in the light of Matthew 21:12-13 where Jesus cast out all (everyone) that bought and sold.

Revelation 13:17 doesn’t say what is being bought and sold, so many people just assume it’s physical goods but based on Matthew 21:12-13 it would seem that the buying and selling of salvation would be more appropriate.

I think you’ll immediately see the papacy in this but I don’t think the number 666 has been linked directly to the papacy in a convincing manner.

Another alternative for 666 is that in Revelation 13:18 the Greek words “of a man” is <444> which can mean mankind. So it can be rendered as “it is the number of mankind” not “it is the number of a man”.

Ok, 666 can be looked at as .666 or 2/3, then applying that to mankind, a conclusion can be made the 2/3 represents the unsaved while 1/3 represents saved. I don’t personally put a high probability on this but I can’t ignore or argue against it either.

If we do accept 1/3 being saved and 2/3 being unsaved then that ratio needs to fit the trumpets and bowls where we see things like 1/3 of the trees burned up and 1/3 of the sea becomes blood and so on. I haven’t seen an interpretation that links all this together in a solid way but I haven’t really looked at very many different views on this either.

That’s my two cents.
 
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Douggg

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No, because of that crazy chart of yours! You have a mix of Daniel in there and who knows what else.
My chart shows the Bible passages that apply in red.


image4.jpg


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the 2300 days belongs to the Messiah at His first coming,
The text of Daniel 8:11-14 refers to the little horn person, of him stopping the daily sacrifice, and committing the transgression of desolation (on my chart above, Stage 4), and the 2300 days. The 2300 days of the little horn's activity, Gabriel, in Daniel 8:17, said will be time of the end.

2300 days4 .jpg
The transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation are two different things. One is an act, a sit-in the temple by the Antichrist (the little horn person in Stage 3-4). The other will be a statue image of the beast-king (the little horn person in Stage 5) placed on the temple mount.

My chart below shows the progression from the transgression of desolation act to the abomination of desolation.



Events ToD to AoD.jpg
 
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CTK

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Here’s my two cents on this, I think no matter what we do with the number 666 the buying and selling has to be looked at in the light of Matthew 21:12-13 where Jesus cast out all (everyone) that bought and sold.

Revelation 13:17 doesn’t say what is being bought and sold, so many people just assume it’s physical goods but based on Matthew 21:12-13 it would seem that the buying and selling of salvation would be more appropriate.

I think you’ll immediately see the papacy in this but I don’t think the number 666 has been linked directly to the papacy in a convincing manner.

Another alternative for 666 is that in Revelation 13:18 the Greek words “of a man” is <444> which can mean mankind. So it can be rendered as “it is the number of mankind” not “it is the number of a man”.

Ok, 666 can be looked at as .666 or 2/3, then applying that to mankind, a conclusion can be made the 2/3 represents the unsaved while 1/3 represents saved. I don’t personally put a high probability on this but I can’t ignore or argue against it either.

If we do accept 1/3 being saved and 2/3 being unsaved then that ratio needs to fit the trumpets and bowls where we see things like 1/3 of the trees burned up and 1/3 of the sea becomes blood and so on. I haven’t seen an interpretation that links all this together in a solid way but I haven’t really looked at very many different views on this either.

That’s my two cents.
In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason this is speaking about economic buying and selling. It fits in perfectly with the little horn (papacy), who practice selling indulgences, which positions of power, etc. to receive salvation, stay out of hell or purgatory, get dead relatives out of purgatory, etc. This is one of the major problems that centered around the reformation. They protested against the powers and authority that was given or found with the papacy- forgiveness of sin, infallibility, etc.
 
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CTK

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My chart shows the Bible passages that apply in red.


View attachment 54249


-------------------------------------------------------------


The text of Daniel 8:11-14 refers to the little horn person, of him stopping the daily sacrifice, and committing the transgression of desolation (on my chart above, Stage 4), and the 2300 days. The 2300 days of the little horn's activity, Gabriel, in Daniel 8:17, said will be time of the end.

View attachment 54250
The transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation are two different things. One is an act, a sit-in the temple by the Antichrist (the little horn person in Stage 3-4). The other will be a statue image of the beast-king (the little horn person in Stage 5) placed on the temple mount.

My chart below shows the progression from the transgression of desolation act to the abomination of desolation.



View attachment 54251
Dougg, I am going blind looking at your charts. Their tortuous! I would ask that you immediately eat them - they will taste like honey to you but will make your stomach sick. Once again (and by that I mean for the millionth time) look for Jesus in Daniel- He is being spoken of in much of Daniel… The 2300 days is speaking about the Messiah and His first coming. It was His sacrifice in the cross that made it so there would not be a need for further animal sacrifices… Can you see that?

Now, please start eating those charts…
 

Douggg

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The 2300 days is speaking about the Messiah and His first coming
The 2300 days in Daniel 8:14 in the text pertain to the vision about the little horn person.... not the Messiah, nor the Messiah's first coming.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.


Dougg, I am going blind looking at your charts.

Have you ever bought a piece of furniture or something that had to be assembled ?

If so, those items came will an assembly drawing showing how all the parts go together.

My charts similarly shows how the parts of the events and timeframes of the end times go to together.
 

ewq1938

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If you meant the papacy or little horn is given only 42 months, that is not true… he must continue until the end when he is destroyed without human hands.

I'm referring to the ten horned beast of Rev 13. That beast only has 42 months.