I don’t want to have an argument with you. There are many different interpretations and I certainly do understand that most consider Daniel to be end times…
I believe we will just have to move on … no problem. Best wishes.
The TRUE Meaning Of The Little Horn Prophecy For the End
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I believe we will just have to move on … no problem. Best wishes.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
People believe Daniel is about end times because Daniel says it about the end times.
Even the verses which you testify are ancient history,Daniel says are about end times.Here Daniel wrote about the persecution which he also wrote about in Daniel 7.
Notice Daniel says these wise leaders are imprisoned and killed till the time of the end.
Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.
The time of the end comes 42 months later in Daniel 11:40-12:2
Revelation also talks about their imprisonment and deaths and gives more details.to the prophecy.
Well, it looks like you do not want to let this go!
So, in the past responses, I asked you to give me your interpretation of 7:23-27… among many others.
Would you tell me what these verses mean?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Daniel 7:23-27
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
This prophecy started to be fulfilled in the 20th century with the division of the middle east,the promised land.
The ten horns to come up first are ten Muslim majority nations with muslim kings.The little horn that came up last in 1948 calls itself Israel,which is a name given to overcomers.
The little horn is described as
Little
Diverse from the others
Has a more stout look.
All of which describes Israel apart from the Muslim countries that rose before it.
The three kings the little horn subdued were the kings of Egypt,Syria and Jordan when the little horn took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem in 1967.The seven hills are the seven heads of the beast.
According to the rest of the prophecy,the little horn will persecute the saints which are Jesus followers in the land of Israel for 42 months.After that tribulation of the saints ,Christ comes and receives his kingdom.For those who are familiar with revelation 11,this takes place at the seventh Trump.Then the kingdom under the whole heaven is given to the saints as Daniel prophecied.
The persecution of the saints in the land of Israel is well documented in scripture including the gospel .This persecution by the little horn in the land of Israel will commence after the arrival.of the king of the norths armed forces which is the second beast in revelation.Jesus spoke of the persecution by the little horn which takes place just before his coming in these verses.
Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Jesus also mentioned this tribulation in his Olivet discourse.
Well, I think I am going to have to move on after reading this. Thank you for sharing your interpretations, it is clear we differ in our interpretations. Best wishes.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
tailgator
Well-Known Member
One of the ten kings calls for an alliance.
The only step that will stop Israeli arrogance, Israeli banditry, and Israeli state terrorism is the alliance of Islamic countries," Erdogan said at an Islamic schools' association event near Istanbul.
The only step that will stop Israeli arrogance, Israeli banditry, and Israeli state terrorism is the alliance of Islamic countries," Erdogan said at an Islamic schools' association event near Istanbul.
Verse 34 subject is the "feet of iron and clay", which represents the final beast kingdom at the end of this world. Verse 35 then combines all the previous beasts with that final one of iron and clay, all being destroyed by Christ Jesus at His 2nd coming, (the "Stone" which the builders rejected).
The final number of beast kingdoms is a mystery for those not paying attention in Daniel 2. The Daniel 2:40 to 41 verses are where many get lost by not understanding the feet and toes of part iron and part clay is a 5th beast, as also shown in the Dan.2:44-45 verses for the end of this world. The 4th beast of legs of iron represented the Roman empire, which is separate from the feet and toes, as shown in Dan.2:33.
Some scholars believe that the feet and toes beast represents a 'revived' a type of Roman empire for the end, and thus a continuation of the 4th beast of legs of iron (old Roman empire). But the Dan.2:44-45 verses about the final destruction at the end shows all the beasts together and destroyed by Christ at His 2nd coming. Have you ever heard the term "one world government", or "New World Order"? That is what that final 5th beast at the very end of this world is about, and will include all the previous beasts that existed before, but in a modern mode, as all five pieces of the beast statue are described as being 'together' when that Stone strikes it upon its feet.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I'm not going into detail, we'll, not much anyway, but simply offering a brief summary of the main actors.
4 empires. Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece, and Rome. The first 3 actually named in scripture, the 4th obviously Rome by several affirmations of prophecy and history. The most valuable prophecy that confirms Rome as the 4th beast/ Empire/ metal is Daniel 9, the 490 year Messianic prophecy which pinpoints the baptism (27ad) , and the mid-week... in the midst of the final 7 years...death of Jesus. Rome was the ruling power at that time, and continued a further 3 centuries as the one of the greatest protagonists against God's people. The 4th kingdom is Rome. It can only be Rome. There is no other applicant for the position.
There were 4 horns that grew out of the Greek head after Alexander. Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimichus, and Seleucus. They carved up the empire between them.
The horns that grew from the Roman beast were all Roman. It isn't a revived Roman Empire in these last days, its never gone away. One would think that were obvious, but many go off on tangents. I have no idea why. 10 horns that grew into power within the boundaries of the former empire. 3 were destroyed, there being no remains of them today. The other 7 developed into the present nations of Europe. The little horn grew up among them...among the 7 tribes within that same boundary of the former Empire.
The feet and toes of iron and clay is a composite. It has some of the strength and character of the former Roman Empire, but has another element united with it, but that cannot be a amalgamated into a single unity such as an alloy. The very first Christian union of church and state...a union many are seeking to re-establish. This picture perfectly fits the little horn rising to become an exceeding great power, the papacy, using the power and authority of the emperors and kings and queens of Europe for over 1000 years to enforce religious dogma and submission to the Popes. The papacy meets every single criteria demanded by the propecy to accurately identify her as the little horn and the first beast of Revelation 13.
Catholic doctrine and dogma perfectly meets every criteria demanded of grammar to identify her as the Antichrist. In the place of God. Vicar of the Son of God. Vicarius filli dei. A title used by the Pope over many centuries, written into Canon law, used in the fraudulent Donation of Constantine and accepted and adopted by the Pope for centuries after, and adding up to 666 in the very language of the power that is thereby identified... Latin.
And as we are all aware, or should be, every Protestant reformer agreed. They may have disagreed on other matters, but on this, that the papal seat and power is the antichrist, they were unanimous. It was that one truth that the counter Reformation sought to destroy or cover up. The Jesuits were given that responsibility, and accomplished it so successfully that the modern protestant Church has abandoned the reformers beliefs and adopted Jesuit teachings which today obscures and hides the papacy from the prophetic picture. According to the modern church, or at least 90% of it, everything in prophecy had already happened, or most everything hadn't happened yet, and they leave it to guesswork... otherwise known as clairvoyance... to inform us of the future. And tell us we are ignorant for not accepting their prognostications which they have precious little biblical evidence for.
And all the time that leopard-like beast, having the philosophical mindset of Greece, the infallibility of Persia, the paganism of Babylon, and the persecuting power and seat of Rome, has almost been completely healed of her wound, and is set to rule the world with the help of the very same protestant church that once counted it apostasy to walk hand in hand with Rome. Blind guides.
4 empires. Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece, and Rome. The first 3 actually named in scripture, the 4th obviously Rome by several affirmations of prophecy and history. The most valuable prophecy that confirms Rome as the 4th beast/ Empire/ metal is Daniel 9, the 490 year Messianic prophecy which pinpoints the baptism (27ad) , and the mid-week... in the midst of the final 7 years...death of Jesus. Rome was the ruling power at that time, and continued a further 3 centuries as the one of the greatest protagonists against God's people. The 4th kingdom is Rome. It can only be Rome. There is no other applicant for the position.
There were 4 horns that grew out of the Greek head after Alexander. Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimichus, and Seleucus. They carved up the empire between them.
The horns that grew from the Roman beast were all Roman. It isn't a revived Roman Empire in these last days, its never gone away. One would think that were obvious, but many go off on tangents. I have no idea why. 10 horns that grew into power within the boundaries of the former empire. 3 were destroyed, there being no remains of them today. The other 7 developed into the present nations of Europe. The little horn grew up among them...among the 7 tribes within that same boundary of the former Empire.
The feet and toes of iron and clay is a composite. It has some of the strength and character of the former Roman Empire, but has another element united with it, but that cannot be a amalgamated into a single unity such as an alloy. The very first Christian union of church and state...a union many are seeking to re-establish. This picture perfectly fits the little horn rising to become an exceeding great power, the papacy, using the power and authority of the emperors and kings and queens of Europe for over 1000 years to enforce religious dogma and submission to the Popes. The papacy meets every single criteria demanded by the propecy to accurately identify her as the little horn and the first beast of Revelation 13.
Catholic doctrine and dogma perfectly meets every criteria demanded of grammar to identify her as the Antichrist. In the place of God. Vicar of the Son of God. Vicarius filli dei. A title used by the Pope over many centuries, written into Canon law, used in the fraudulent Donation of Constantine and accepted and adopted by the Pope for centuries after, and adding up to 666 in the very language of the power that is thereby identified... Latin.
And as we are all aware, or should be, every Protestant reformer agreed. They may have disagreed on other matters, but on this, that the papal seat and power is the antichrist, they were unanimous. It was that one truth that the counter Reformation sought to destroy or cover up. The Jesuits were given that responsibility, and accomplished it so successfully that the modern protestant Church has abandoned the reformers beliefs and adopted Jesuit teachings which today obscures and hides the papacy from the prophetic picture. According to the modern church, or at least 90% of it, everything in prophecy had already happened, or most everything hadn't happened yet, and they leave it to guesswork... otherwise known as clairvoyance... to inform us of the future. And tell us we are ignorant for not accepting their prognostications which they have precious little biblical evidence for.
And all the time that leopard-like beast, having the philosophical mindset of Greece, the infallibility of Persia, the paganism of Babylon, and the persecuting power and seat of Rome, has almost been completely healed of her wound, and is set to rule the world with the help of the very same protestant church that once counted it apostasy to walk hand in hand with Rome. Blind guides.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
@Carl Emerson accepting the above principles and prophetic hermeneutic... historicism... is the first step in understanding revelation. Gradual progressive prophetic fulfillment from the time the prophecy was first given, to the second coming. In Revelation, the chapters aren't strictly chronological, but are sufficiently ordered to maintain a sound timeline. Chapter 11 and the 2 witnesses speak of the time of the French revolution, and the result of centuries of papal influence in French affairs, and then the rise of biblical knowledge and understanding with the formation worldwide of Bible societies and missionary endeavours. The 2 witnesses were banned, burnt, and forbidden by France for 3 and a half years, the God of the Bible proclaimed dead, and replaced with the goddess of reason. (Another day for a year prophecy just like the 42 months, 1,260 days, times, time and half a time). Those 3 time prophecies are related. All come to 1260 years. All apply to the one timeline. Either to the apostate church the antichrist, which reigned unopposed from 538ad to 1798ad when the Pope was taken captive by Napoleon's general Berthier and the church losing its statehood (apparently mortal wound) and which persecuted God's people, (Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2; 13:5) but also to the church in the wilderness which throughout that same time suffered persecution and war by the hands of papal Roman allies. (Revelation 11:3; 12:6,14).
Revelation 12 speaks of the church and its war against Satan.
Revelation 13 speaks of 2 beasts. The first papal, having the inherited character and nature of her forbears, Babylon, Meda- Persia, Greece and Rome and the same characteristics of the little horn of Daniel 7, a beast now reviving and healing of the deadly wound, particularly since the treaty of Verona in 1928, but which appeared to die as a union of church and state in 1798. The second beast of Revelation 13 was rising up as the former beast was going down. Which nation was rising up in the late 1700s? Which nation today is now in deep diplomatic talks and agreements with that first beast, even to the point of religious union? Which nation is now forming its own version of a church/ state union, only protestant, but an image to the first beast? Which nation has the power and the influence to turn off people's access to social welfare, bank accounts, and implement a financial system that had the power to coerce people to worship according to that union's dictates, and which ultimately will reflect catholic dogma, but contradict the Bible?
Revelation 14 speaks again of the true church, the remnant who recognise the prophetic significance of protestant America and its association with Rome, warning the world through angelic inspiration and power, 4 messages that eventually call people out of the system.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Nothing has ever had a manifestation of 10Hs, but there will be those who seek to fabricate them, in order to give creedance, so as to bolster their pet doctrine.
Also to note, in all of NT scriptures, there are only Two prophetic mothers that are ever spoken of: Gal. ch. 4.
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Like it or not, the Ten horns in prophecy, ever since Daniel is still a manifestation that is yet to come.
Rev. 12
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev. 13
[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is LIKE unto the beast? who is ABLE to make war with him? [clue: not militaristic or religious, but rather economic -Rev. 13:17].
>In all the world, there has never been a Global Economic Empire. It truly will be a beast, that none were ever like it, nor will any religious or militaristic countries "be able" to make war against it.
Rev. 17
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman [Gal. ch. 4] SIT UPON a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that CARRIETH her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have RECIEVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings ONE HOUR with the beast. [See Rev. 9:13-15, 16-21- Clue: River Euphrates].
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the WHORE [Gal. ch. 4], and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
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That's an old traditional, and out-of-date Reformer belief. The pope is not... the Antichrist. The old Reformers believed he was because of the persecutions against the Protestants of the 15th-16th centuries. That time is gone. The Protestant Church has since flourished regardless of those old persecutions by the Roman Church.
And just because today's Roman Church has some doubtful doctrines it has instituted in these last days does not omit many Protestant denominations that have done the same, and are just as deceived, and will remain deceived when the real Antichrist at the end of this world does show up in JERUSALEM to play Christ.
Yeah, the 10 kings have yet to manifest. When they do, it will be real. (See Rev.12:3-4 which was Lucifer's beast kingdom of old, when he first rebelled in coveting God's Throne in the pre-Adamic world.)
The coming one-world beast kingdom will have the only military power, which is why the question of who can make war against it. Ever hear of the United Nations? Their having the only military power is one of their declared goals. When the false-Messiah arrives, playing Christ, making that happen will be very easy to do.
Two different 'beasts' are shown in Rev.13, and likewise in Rev.17. One must learn to keep them separate to understand Rev.17 properly. The "beast" in verse 12 above is about the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11, the "another beast" which represents the beast king.
The "beast" of Rev.17:7 though is the Rev.13:1 kingdom beast.
The symbolic 'woman', and 'whore' of Rev.17 is the "great city", JERUSALEM, taken over by Satan at the end of this world. Rev.11:8 reveals it's about Jerusalem at the end of this world.
I agree, but your last statement needs some refinement.
The Antichrist will show up in Jerusalem and will be anointed the King of Israel, thought to be messiah - Christ. Instead of and against the true King of Israel messiah - Jesus Christ.
That's basically what I said. To PLAY Christ never means they are The REAL Christ.
Some readers of your post may think you mean that person will claim to be Jesus returned.
Persons like John Miller of Australia makes that claim. And also Jose' deJesus Miranda (now deceased) of Growing in Grace ministries. Vissarion of Russia.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You didn't seem to notice that my last post wasn't based on reform beliefs, but on Scripture. Prophecy. Not because I am being persecuted, but because the papacy fits every single criteria that prophecy demanded of any potential candidate for the title, antichrist. A single Pope is not the Antichrist. It is the system that replaces Christ with a counterfeit means by which one can attain salvation. A counterfeit Gospel, counterfeit God, a counterfeit mediator, and counterfeit temple of God. I could meticulously go through every single criteria in Daniel and Revelation that pertains to the antichrist, and every one can be answered only by the papal system. One future single man cannot. And will not.
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Where is there currently a temple standing on the temple mount in Jerusalem.
The little horn person at the time of the end will stop the daily sacrifice and commit the transgression of desolation. What is the daily sacrifice? What is the transgression of desolation ? What is the abomination of desolation ? That you claim some pope will do.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You have made some very presumptuous statements there. I never said the Pope will do any of those things, and he won't. The counterfeit temple is his own church. The real temple is one of either 3 options, or all 3.
The sanctuary/ temple in heaven.
The church, meaning the body of Christ made up of all true believers as a corporate entity .
The individual believer who had Christ abiding within.
Your belief that the antichrist will enter a literal temple in Jerusalem is utterly wrong, presumptuous, and unbiblical.
The apostle Paul indeed did say that the antichrist would enter God's temple and claim that he is God. Which of the above 3 options do you think the Papal system has entered, and claimed the prerogatives that belong only to deity... like forgiving sin and claiming they are the only way to salvation etc etc
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Just a point of interest. That little horn you speak of grew out of the pagan Roman Empire, among the 10 Barbarian nations of the western division of the empire. That little horn uprooted 3 of those nations. The Heruli, the Ostrogoths, and the Vandals were destroyed by the papacy before 538AD. Please explain how am individual person can accomplish all that again in the future?
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