A glaring proof of the divinity of Jesus is the many examples of God's people worshipping Christ in the New Testament, which Christ never corrected

[marks]

Yes, been here done this before with this user. I can’t remember what about. But same pattern

I've seen it plenty before, often over Trinitarian doctrine. But it always comes down to "deeper knowledge" than what the text says, combined with personal denigration. Boring!

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

Christ's reference to Abraham serves to affirm His pre-eminence, not His pre-existence. The Jews had claimed Abraham as their father (vs. 39), so Christ asserts His greater role in God's divine purpose by saying, "Before Abraham was, I am." He did not say, "Before Abraham was, I was," as is often misinterpreted. The Jews, much like modern-day Trinitarians, misunderstood Jesus' point. He was not claiming to be literally older than Abraham, as is shown by His earlier statement: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad" (vs. 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Gal. 3:8), "saw" Christ's day through the eye of faith.

That is not the correct reading of the story. You are denying exactly what Jesus is clearly saying. It is clearly about pre-existence.

Christ was foreordained in God's plan before the foundation of the world, though He was only made manifest in the last times (1 Peter 1:20). In the divine purpose, Christ was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8), yet He was not literally slain until His crucifixion during Pilate's time.
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F2F

That is not the correct understanding of the clear statements of Jesus about his pre-existence.
There is another thread I opened about it. You're more than welcome to visit that topic and continue analyzing this there.

 

[face2face]

That is not the correct reading of the story. You are denying exactly what Jesus is clearly saying. It is clearly about pre-existence.

That is not the correct understanding of the clear statements of Jesus about his pre-existence.
There is another thread I opened about it. You're more than welcome to visit that topic and continue analyzing this there.

Jesus is talking about his pre-eminence, meaning Christ was in the minds of those faithful believers looking for the Messiah - Abraham did so (Gen 22) and so on.

F2F

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus is talking about his pre-eminence, meaning Christ was in the minds of those faithful believers looking for the Messiah - Abraham did so (Gen 22) and so on.

F2F

He did not say "I am more pre-eminent than Abraham," but rather "Before Abraham was, I was."

The passage needs to be twisted to change the meaning like that. The dialogue is exactly about how long Jesus has been alive. Before Abraham? YES. That is the point that Jesus is making to them, to justify that he did see when Abraham had a notion of the future under the Kingdom of Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He did not say "I am more pre-eminent than Abraham," but rather "Before Abraham was, I was."

The passage needs to be twisted to change the meaning like that. The dialogue is exactly about how long Jesus has been alive. Before Abraham? YES. That is the point that Jesus is making to them, to justify that he did see when Abraham had a notion of the future under the Kingdom of Christ.

Not to mention. the greek language does not allow it.

He said, literally, before abraham, I was.

Only God can make this claim.. (unless he was an angel created before Abraham)

Jesus said Before abraham was (In the greek genomi - to become, to take place. To be formed, to come to exist.)

it does not say or man anythign about how great he was.

Then Jesus said, I am (in the greek ego - I, Eimi - to be, to exist)