Revelation 9:1 - 11 Who are these locusts representing?

[TribulationSigns]

Thank you, at least I know where you are coming from on these things

And?

 

[Verily]

And?

And...? Well, I have been on Carm with you many years back and are somewhat familiar with your posts. You wanted to talk to me about how true christians as yourself see things, and I have been informed.

 

[Verily]

So you drink tongue?

Its deadly poison yes.

I'm talking about drinking poison and your talking about drinking tongue.

Its full of deadly poison

I don't know why I ask you anything.

But you do try to have fun doing it even as I sometimes cannot resist the urge toward the same.

We need to work on this.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And...? Well, I have been on Carm with you many years back and are somewhat familiar with your posts. You wanted to talk to me about how true christians as yourself see things, and I have been informed.

It seems like they are offended by the truth. But did you receive what was written to you? Do you understand what the sores signify in Scripture, as used in the Lord's parables? For example, consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus, where Lazarus suffered from sores and was cared for by dogs. How does this relate to Revelation 9 and 16? Have you spiritually heard the message, or will you be distracted by what others think of my testimony? Are you truly listening? I ask you again: do you have any biblical refutation, or do you now understand what the Lord said regarding the sores you inquired about?

 

[Marty fox]

Chapter 9: John sees the fifth trumpet blown. The saints are protected by Gods wrath by Gods seal (No Christians died in the fall of Jerusalem) Pagan Romans, symbolized as locusts (Joel 2:1-11), invade Judea. They torment the Christ-rejecting Jews for five months (May-September 66 AD), inciting them to rebel against the Roman Empire. (5 months is also an average life span of a locus). John sees the sixth trumpet blown. Roman armies stationed at the Euphrates River in Syria march on to Judea, straight to Jerusalem (Late 66 AD) where they kill numerous Christ-rejecting Jews who still did not repent. The king from the Abyss is the eighth king is satan who is the destroyer (Exodus 12:23).

Peter in ACT’s chapter 2 tells us when the events of Joel chapter two would happen

 

[CTK]

What is symbolic about demons? What is symbolic about 5 months? John just saw demons inflicting pain to man. I don't see anything symbolic in this passage. Yes there is symbolism in the Bible, but not near the amount of what someone who has a symbolic hermeneutic for the book of Revelation.

the demons are real but they do not materialize on the earth. they spiritual affect those that will entertain them. People of God do not allow them to enter them .. they will not be able to invade one who has the Holy Spirit in them. The 5 months symbolize the period of the last harvest from the spring to the fall harvest. The entire book of Revelation is symbolic and needs to be interpreted.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Chapter 9: John sees the fifth trumpet blown. The saints are protected by Gods wrath by Gods seal (No Christians died in the fall of Jerusalem) Pagan Romans, symbolized as locusts (Joel 2:1-11), invade Judea. They torment the Christ-rejecting Jews for five months (May-September 66 AD), inciting them to rebel against the Roman Empire. (5 months is also an average life span of a locus). John sees the sixth trumpet blown. Roman armies stationed at the Euphrates River in Syria march on to Judea, straight to Jerusalem (Late 66 AD) where they kill numerous Christ-rejecting Jews who still did not repent. The king from the Abyss is the eighth king is satan who is the destroyer (Exodus 12:23).

Peter in A state chapter 2 tells us when the events of Joel chapter two would happen

 

[CTK]

Chapter 9: John sees the fifth trumpet blown. The saints are protected by Gods wrath by Gods seal (No Christians died in the fall of Jerusalem) Pagan Romans, symbolized as locusts (Joel 2:1-11), invade Judea. They torment the Christ-rejecting Jews for five months (May-September 66 AD), inciting them to rebel against the Roman Empire. (5 months is also an average life span of a locus). John sees the sixth trumpet blown. Roman armies stationed at the Euphrates River in Syria march on to Judea, straight to Jerusalem (Late 66 AD) where they kill numerous Christ-rejecting Jews who still did not repent. The king from the Abyss is the eighth king is satan who is the destroyer (Exodus 12:23).

Peter in A state chapter 2 tells us when the events of Joel chapter two would happen

I cannot argue or discuss these comments with you... the book of Revelation begins with the 7 churches which come after the cross and focus on His church as it goes through the next 2000 years, how it is attacked and appropriated by the little horn (500 AD) and will continue to preach their false teachings until His return.

 

[Marty fox]

I cannot argue or discuss these comments with you... the book of Revelation begins with the 7 churches which come after the cross and focus on His church as it goes through the next 2000 years, how it is attacked and appropriated by the little horn (500 AD) and will continue to preach their false teachings until His return.

The 7 churches were 7 literal churches that John wrote too people and current events are even named in the letters to the church's

The message to us are the commands and warnings

 

[Marty fox]

Did you read all of the verses and peters speech in acts chapter two

 

[TribulationSigns]

Did you read all of the verses and peters speech in acts chapter two

What made you think I haven't read? I know these verses well, and they do not support your interpretations and speculation on the meaning of five months and the fall of the literal city Jersualem, sorry. The verses have nothing to do with the first century.

 

[Verily]

It seems like they are offended by the truth.

I do not know who "they" are now

But did you receive what was written to you?

I browsed over it

Do you understand what the sores signify in Scripture, as used in the Lord's parables?

I would like to thoroughly study it for myself, the Lord gives the understanding

For example, consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus, where Lazarus suffered from sores and was cared for by dogs. How does this relate to Revelation 9 and 16? Have you spiritually heard the message, or will you be distracted by what others think of my testimony?

Who are these "others" I have no idea who thinks what of anything you post.

Are you truly listening?

I am truly listening to music while I read, but I did give it half my ear, it's rather lengthy. You could keep my ear longer if it was strictly scriptures and less interjecting. I learn better that way. I know others do not, but I do with decent comparisons.

I ask you again: do you have any biblical refutation, or do you now understand what the Lord said regarding the sores you inquired about?

And I will tell you: I haven't looked at it closely enough and compared things for myself (which I would rather) so why on earth would I even care about refuting your own understanding of it?

 

[Marty fox]

What made you think I haven't read? I know these verses well, and they do not support your interpretations and speculation on the meaning of five months and the fall of the literal city Jersualem, sorry. The verses have nothing to do with the first century.

I didn’t think that I only asked the question and to clarify I was meaning Joel, acts and exodus

It can’t all just be a coincidence the times periods matching history

 

[TribulationSigns]

And I will tell you: I haven't looked at it closely enough and compared things for myself (which I would rather) so why on earth would I even care about refuting your own understanding of it?

Okay. I have dealt with people who insist that the sores in Revelation are literal—so painful that people will literally chew their tongues off. Sad but true. This shows their lack of spiritual understanding of God talked about in Revelation 16. I will explain for your further consideration:

Rev 16:10-11
(10) And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
(11) And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The judgment of God makes HIS kingdom (yes church) under beasts' rule full of darkness, for the lack of light of Gospel truth.

In symbolic terms, the stars fall from heaven, the sun becomes dark, the moon turns to blood. The tongue in scripture usually "signifies" either speech or language. And darkness is the opposite of light, the absence of Christ. So what we have here is a time of darkness and silence that the tongue of the wicked cannot any longer speak the gospel (Psalms 119:172). This is again spiritual imagery signifying:

1.) The removal of light
2.) A spiritual famine of hearing the word of God (darkness and Chewing of tongue).

The same portrait is painted when God says in 2nd Thessalonians that the restrainer (the Holy Spirit) shall be taken out of the midst of the Holy Temple that the man of sin (sinful man) be revealed. It's all pointing to God's judgment on the church for their spiritual fornication.

Okay, this passage is not informing anyone that unfaithful people will physically gnawing (chewing) their tongues off because of physical pain, rather it is spiritual imagery signifying God sending them strong delusion, which is spiritual anguish. And this causes them to become silent as far as the gospel goes. This signified by this imagery of them chewing ther tongues that it can no longer can be used for God's (Isaiah 50:4) purposes. In other words, that they become speechless or silent. The opposite of those who have been given the tongue to preach the kingdom. Selah!

Isaiah 50:4

• "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."

God's people have been given the tongue of the knowledge of God that we might preach the gospel to the world that his elect might be saved, right? But here that tongue has been taken away from the Church by this plague/judgment of God poured out upon it. It is akin to when God says that a tongue shall cleave (stick/cling) to the roof of their mouth. It is language illustrating that they cannot speak (the tongue being used to speak). To be a kingdom "NOW" full of darkness and that they chew their tongues indicates that those with the mark of the beast now sit in darkness, or in other words without Christ that they are brought to silence.

1st Samuel 2:9

• "He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail."

Gnawing their tongues in darkness is the judgment of the Lord upon those who have forsaken Him and presumed to judge by what seems right in their own eyes, rather than by the Word. Doing that means they have become the sinful/lawless man of Antichrist rather than the lawful/righteous man of God. It is because of this, God's discomforting them, they are left dumb or mute in spiritually chewing their tongues speechless because of their sin of serving the beast! As it is written...

Psalms 12:3

• "The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:"

Proverbs 10:31

• "The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out."

God Himself has done this to the tongue of the unfaithful! He has caused the wicked tongue to be chewed signifying that they can no longer be a spokesperson for God, but mute concerning spiritual things. The same way God did with His Old Testament people when their kingdom representative was taken from them in Zechariah 14 when their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. So the Lord taken out of the way, or literally removed from the midst (2nd Thess 2) of them. A famine of hearing the Word of God (Amos 8:11). Again, to think this means people are literally chewing their tongues because of pain is nonsensical. No one literally chews or gnaws on their tongue because of physical pain. This is a figure of speech which when comparing scripture with scripture we understand is used in order to portray the tongue as the purveyor of speech.

Ezekiel 3:26

• "And I will make thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth that thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be to them a reprover: for they are a rebellious house."

The tongue cleaving/sticking/clinging to the roof of someone's mouth is to signify they cannot speak (be a reprover), exactly the same illustration of the tongue being chewed because of God's wrath that they sit in darkness. ...for they are a rebellious house.

As saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun. Selah!

Hope this helps!

 

[Verily]

Okay. I have dealt with people who insist that the sores in Revelation are literal—so painful that people will literally chew their tongues off. Sad but true. This shows their lack of spiritual understanding of God talked about in Revelation 16. I will explain for your further consideration:

Rev 16:10-11
(10) And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
(11) And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The judgment of God makes HIS kingdom (yes church) under beasts' rule full of darkness, for the lack of light of Gospel truth.

In symbolic terms, the stars fall from heaven, the sun becomes dark, the moon turns to blood. The tongue in scripture usually "signifies" either speech or language. And darkness is the opposite of light, the absence of Christ. So what we have here is a time of darkness and silence that the tongue of the wicked cannot any longer speak the gospel (Psalms 119:172). This is again spiritual imagery signifying:

1.) The removal of light
2.) A spiritual famine of hearing the word of God (darkness and Chewing of tongue).

The same portrait is painted when God says in 2nd Thessalonians that the restrainer (the Holy Spirit) shall be taken out of the midst of the Holy Temple that the man of sin (sinful man) be revealed. It's all pointing to God's judgment on the church for their spiritual fornication.

Okay, this passage is not informing anyone that unfaithful people will physically gnawing (chewing) their tongues off because of physical pain, rather it is spiritual imagery signifying God sending them strong delusion, which is spiritual anguish. And this causes them to become silent as far as the gospel goes. This signified by this imagery of them chewing ther tongues that it can no longer can be used for God's (Isaiah 50:4) purposes. In other words, that they become speechless or silent. The opposite of those who have been given the tongue to preach the kingdom. Selah!

Isaiah 50:4

• "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."

God's people have been given the tongue of the knowledge of God that we might preach the gospel to the world that his elect might be saved, right? But here that tongue has been taken away from the Church by this plague/judgment of God poured out upon it. It is akin to when God says that a tongue shall cleave (stick/cling) to the roof of their mouth. It is language illustrating that they cannot speak (the tongue being used to speak). To be a kingdom "NOW" full of darkness and that they chew their tongues indicates that those with the mark of the beast now sit in darkness, or in other words without Christ that they are brought to silence.

1st Samuel 2:9

• "He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail."

Gnawing their tongues in darkness is the judgment of the Lord upon those who have forsaken Him and presumed to judge by what seems right in their own eyes, rather than by the Word. Doing that means they have become the sinful/lawless man of Antichrist rather than the lawful/righteous man of God. It is because of this, God's discomforting them, they are left dumb or mute in spiritually chewing their tongues speechless because of their sin of serving the beast! As it is written...

Psalms 12:3

• "The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:"

Proverbs 10:31

• "The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out."

God Himself has done this to the tongue of the unfaithful! He has caused the wicked tongue to be chewed signifying that they can no longer be a spokesperson for God, but mute concerning spiritual things. The same way God did with His Old Testament people when their kingdom representative was taken from them in Zechariah 14 when their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. So the Lord taken out of the way, or literally removed from the midst (2nd Thess 2) of them. A famine of hearing the Word of God (Amos 8:11). Again, to think this means people are literally chewing their tongues because of pain is nonsensical. No one literally chews or gnaws on their tongue because of physical pain. This is a figure of speech which when comparing scripture with scripture we understand is used in order to portray the tongue as the purveyor of speech.

Ezekiel 3:26

• "And I will make thy tongue cleave to the roof of thy mouth that thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be to them a reprover: for they are a rebellious house."

The tongue cleaving/sticking/clinging to the roof of someone's mouth is to signify they cannot speak (be a reprover), exactly the same illustration of the tongue being chewed because of God's wrath that they sit in darkness. ...for they are a rebellious house.

As saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun. Selah!

Hope this helps!

Thanks

 

[CTK]

The 7 churches were 7 literal churches that John wrote too people and current events are even named in the letters to the church's

The message to us are the commands and warnings

Yes they are ... they not only reveal the actual 7 churches that existed at John's time but they also reflect the pros and cons of every church that will exist for the next 2000 years. God is pulling open the curtain of His one church to reveal their characteristices and He is willing to reveal to us those things He finds offensive and affect our salvation. I don't know why you mentioned that because it seems you were / are contending that Revelation speaks to the times of Rome , the 70 AD destruction, etc., It is all about His church forward but not pagan Rome or the Temple or anything of such nature. It is all about our salvation and keeping obedience to His Word and Testimony in His church and how the little horn preaches a false gospel and tries to demand we follow his teachings / practices / rituals / beliefs, etc. There is only a very few actors we have to focus on here in Revelation, but the symbolism is still quite difficult to unpack.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I didn’t think that I only asked the question and to clarify I was meaning Joel, acts and exodus

It can’t all just be a coincidence the times periods matching history

Unfortunately, I am well-versed in the doctrine of Preterism, and I believe they misinterpret important aspects, such as the wrong Israel, the wrong generation, and the wrong references to falling stones and mountains to flee to. You can read my posts to others in this thread where I explain the significance of the locusts, smoke, scorpions, and other imagery mentioned by the Lord, based on His interpretation in the Word—not the writings of heathen historians.

 

[Marty fox]

Unfortunately, I am well-versed in the doctrine of Preterism, and I believe they misinterpret important aspects, such as the wrong Israel, the wrong generation, and the wrong references to falling stones and mountains to flee to. You can read my posts to others in this thread where I explain the significance of the locusts, smoke, scorpions, and other imagery mentioned by the Lord, based on His interpretation in the Word—not the writings of heathen historians.

Okay but how do you explain Joel using the very same imagery as Revelation and then Peter using the same imagery as the Olivit Discourse and the Peter saying that it all started in his days.

Exodus also tells us who appolyn is.

This is what Peter Joel and John wrote and said not heathens

Just an FYI I am a partial Peterest amill not a full one

 

[Marty fox]

Yes they are ... they not only reveal the actual 7 churches that existed at John's time but they also reflect the pros and cons of every church that will exist for the next 2000 years. God is pulling open the curtain of His one church to reveal their characteristices and He is willing to reveal to us those things He finds offensive and affect our salvation. I don't know why you mentioned that because it seems you were / are contending that Revelation speaks to the times of Rome , the 70 AD destruction, etc., It is all about His church forward but not pagan Rome or the Temple or anything of such nature. It is all about our salvation and keeping obedience to His Word and Testimony in His church and how the little horn preaches a false gospel and tries to demand we follow his teachings / practices / rituals / beliefs, etc. There is only a very few actors we have to focus on here in Revelation, but the symbolism is still quite difficult to unpack.

I see it as the revelation of Jesus Christ as in who He is and what He did. He is God and He ushered in the new covenant by destroying the symbol of the old covenant age.

It is also a warning of a soon coming persecution but also a promise that Jesus will walk with the church through it and showing us that the church will prevail and the beast will be judge.

We are also shown our future and reward

 

[3 Resurrections]

The battle ends with the sixth trumpet right after the 5 months

But which particular battle? The battle taking place with the sixth trumpet was NOT the Romans coming against Jerusalem. It was the Idumean army coming to Jerusalem in either late AD 67 or early AD 68, fighting against the moderate priestly faction that had been governing the city up to then. The Idumeans believed the lie perpetrated by John of Gischala that this moderate party under Ananus the former high priest was going to surrender the city to the Romans.